Why village elders felt more immersive

[Wulfsdottir]

I have dual feelings about that.
At the one hand I like the idea of notables. It's more immersive when the place have few influential people (sometimes even at each other's throat) than one elder or one guild master... It makes room for lots of roleplay...

At the other hand, the execution is really bad. They don't feel like proper persons and all they do, as was noted above is "sell slaves" as recruits. In case of adding some more weight on them and personalities, I like to have few "elders" per village like that rather than one village head or one guild master in town.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I don't understand how grinding rep for more recruits with the village headman is different from grinding rep through the village elder for more recruits. They didn't change anything in the essence of it except allowing you to pick the troops you get and offering one or two alternatives (landowners) that maybe have special troops.

The Warband quests were actually part of the early game and (at least half of them) were pretty fun. You do them almost naturally at the start of most campaigns and they are generous in dishing out honour and resources (the former of which is really overpowered in the lategame but harder to achieve whilst you're there). By the time you were rich enough to start spamming troops, there would be like a dozen villages with good relations.

The 3-4 notables are more like the guildmaster in warband, and just like in bannerlord his quests usually sucked. But this was fine since he wasn't the main source of troops in the game. If I had to grind guild quests in warband just to get troops I would alt+f4 and format my hard drive.

 

[Apocal]

The Warband quests were actually part of the early game and (at least half of them) were pretty fun. You do them almost naturally at the start of most campaigns and they are generous in dishing out honour and resources (the former of which is really overpowered in the lategame but harder to achieve whilst you're there). By the time you were rich enough to start spamming troops, there would be like a dozen villages with good relations.

I only recall deliver grain, deliver cattle and train troops. Deliver cattle was "**** that" for me and I didn't like having to wait around for the troop training one. The quests that did pay pretty good were the same ones that hurt village relations.

 

[Timmortal]

The Warband quests were actually part of the early game and (at least half of them) were pretty fun. You do them almost naturally at the start of most campaigns and they are generous in dishing out honour and resources (the former of which is really overpowered in the lategame but harder to achieve whilst you're there). By the time you were rich enough to start spamming troops, there would be like a dozen villages with good relations.

The 3-4 notables are more like the guildmaster in warband, and just like in bannerlord his quests usually sucked. But this was fine since he wasn't the main source of troops in the game. If I had to grind guild quests in warband just to get troops I would alt+f4 and format my hard drive.

Seems to me you are romanticicing Warband village quests, there werent many, most were boring and it was a grind to get village relation up if you had ever raided them. Bannerlords system is far far more interesting than that.

 

[black_bulldog]

The Warband quests were actually part of the early game and (at least half of them) were pretty fun. You do them almost naturally at the start of most campaigns and they are generous in dishing out honour and resources (the former of which is really overpowered in the lategame but harder to achieve whilst you're there). By the time you were rich enough to start spamming troops, there would be like a dozen villages with good relations.

The 3-4 notables are more like the guildmaster in warband, and just like in bannerlord his quests usually sucked. But this was fine since he wasn't the main source of troops in the game. If I had to grind guild quests in warband just to get troops I would alt+f4 and format my hard drive.

I don't remember any good village quests from Warband just train the troops, deliver the heard, get supplies. Maybe there were other ones but after doing those several times I just said **** it and didn't do them anymore because it was very repetitive. Oh and whoever made you micromanage those god damn cows has a special place in hell.

 

[Apocal]

I don't remember any good village quests from Warband just train the troops, deliver the heard, get supplies. Maybe there were other ones but after doing those several times I just said **** it and didn't do them anymore because it was very repetitive. Oh and whoever made you micromanage those god damn cows has a special place in hell.

I will say there is one quest I truly miss from Warband.

 

[Elbromas]

Seems to me you are romanticicing Warband village quests, there werent many, most were boring and it was a grind to get village relation up if you had ever raided them. Bannerlords system is far far more interesting than that.

Bannerlord is more interesting how?
The thing with village quests in Warband is that they were very, very easy to do, they handed out a good amount of relations and honor and since they made sense world wise -villages will always need grain or need cattle, in fact seeing them grow after you help them felt like you were doing something that truly mattered- it wasnt a real trouble doing them. Now lets see how "Family Feud" works, probably the quests that spawned every single time I entered a village:
Talk to man, go talk to his brother inside village (you have to go directly) then go to the other village, walk towards the village notable, you have to go by foot and wait for the notable's brother because he has to be present, note, he's slow as **** and it takes like 2, 3 minutes to get where the other man is at, then finally reach him and speak to him, try to do charisma check and fail (even if you have invested points at charm) and have the stupid chance of having the brother dying thus failing, or yeah you finally won! It only took you like 10 minutes of your playtime, and the next village will have the exact same quest! Exciting. Oh and finding the notable's daughter definetly doesnt feel repetitive. Those quests are okey, for doing it ONCE. Delivering grain and training troops you can do a thousand times because a village will always need that. I honestly would like to only do those instead of these boring quests that get old the first time you did them, I dont know how this "system" is more interesting.

Oh and whoever made you micromanage those god damn cows has a special place in hell.

Delivering herd is literally the easiest thing in the world, you know there is the easiest way of making cows follow you and with that it takes what, 1 minute to do a quest like that?

 

[Apocal]

Delivering herd is literally the easiest thing in the world, you know there is the easiest way of making cows follow you and with that it takes what, 1 minute to do a quest like that?

You really don't remember having to steer the cattle around, like pushing an ice sled up-hill?

 

[Elbromas]

You really don't remember having to steer the cattle around, like pushing an ice sled up-hill?

There was an easy fix you could do like in 2 seconds in a txt file. I thought it was a bug when I first played the game so I googled it and found out you could do that, delivering cattle is indeed a waste of time without this solution

 

[Timmortal]

There was an easy fix you could do like in 2 seconds in a txt file. I thought it was a bug when I first played the game so I googled it and found out you could do that, delivering cattle is indeed a waste of time without this solution

Standart was hearding them from behind, was a bother, why most mods made the option to make them follow you.

Bannerlord is more interesting how?
The thing with village quests in Warband is that they were very, very easy to do, they handed out a good amount of relations and honor and since they made sense world wise -villages will always need grain or need cattle, in fact seeing them grow after you help them felt like you were doing something that truly mattered- it wasnt a real trouble doing them. Now lets see how "Family Feud" works, probably the quests that spawned every single time I entered a village:
Talk to man, go talk to his brother inside village (you have to go directly) then go to the other village, walk towards the village notable, you have to go by foot and wait for the notable's brother because he has to be present, note, he's slow as **** and it takes like 2, 3 minutes to get where the other man is at, then finally reach him and speak to him, try to do charisma check and fail (even if you have invested points at charm) and have the stupid chance of having the brother dying thus failing, or yeah you finally won! It only took you like 10 minutes of your playtime, and the next village will have the exact same quest! Exciting. Oh and finding the notable's daughter definetly doesnt feel repetitive. Those quests are okey, for doing it ONCE. Delivering grain and training troops you can do a thousand times because a village will always need that. I honestly would like to only do those instead of these boring quests that get old the first time you did them, I dont know how this "system" is more interesting.


Delivering herd is literally the easiest thing in the world, you know there is the easiest way of making cows follow you and with that it takes what, 1 minute to do a quest like that?

So because one quest is a bother to you, you say its less interesting, just that Bannerlord has 3 times the amount of village quest and will likely get more makes it more interesting. I though village quest in Warband were so repeative and boring. Killing deserters and hunting bandits for slave labor is far more interesting than hearding cows. I loved Warband, but i dont think in any way, that in general over all you can say its quests were more interesting, the technology behind the game would just not allow it. New system is already better, plus it has far far more potential.

 

[Elbromas]

Standart was hearding them from behind, was a bother, why most mods made the option to make them follow you.


So because one quest is a bother to you, you say its less interesting, just that Bannerlord has 3 times the amount of village quest and will likely get more makes it more interesting. I though village quest in Warband were so repeative and boring. Killing deserters and hunting bandits for slave labor is far more interesting than hearding cows. I loved Warband, but i dont think in any way, that in general over all you can say its quests were more interesting, the technology behind the game would just not allow it. New system is already better, plus it has far far more potential.

Again, tell me how a quest like family feud can be a quest that is fun after the first time of doing it, even if they add 10 quests like these it will still feel strange because these are like little side quests you can do once in an rpg, they dont feel dynamic, if for example there were different kind of family feuds or village feuds with different outcomes depending on the personality of the notable okey, I take it, but like this? What I meant is that the other kind of quests make sense to happen more than once while these quests have no place in a sandbox that must repeat some patterns. In my opinion its not bad because they're different but because they're poorly executed, just like notables, if notables actually felt like they have a place in villages then I would agree 100% with you but the current dialog with villagers thats basically "uhh this person did that, huh excuse me? I was talking to myself" it feels like they're robots that are forced to talk about it with no reason whatsoever. I think its problem its terrible quest writing, and terrible dialog writing and execution. At least even if warband didnt provided better quests or more imaginative quests they made sense with the population relationship system and made you feel invested in them, even if it was poorly done it created a better sensation of immersion

 

[black_bulldog]

Standart was hearding them from behind, was a bother, why most mods made the option to make them follow you.


So because one quest is a bother to you, you say its less interesting, just that Bannerlord has 3 times the amount of village quest and will likely get more makes it more interesting. I though village quest in Warband were so repeative and boring. Killing deserters and hunting bandits for slave labor is far more interesting than hearding cows. I loved Warband, but i dont think in any way, that in general over all you can say its quests were more interesting, the technology behind the game would just not allow it. New system is already better, plus it has far far more potential.

I think a lot of Warband players need to take off the rose tinted glasses, either that or they only remember playing with mods. I remember a lot of good things from WB but man there were a ton of bad things too.

 

[Elbromas]

I think a lot of Warband players need to take off the rose tinted glasses, either that or they only remember playing with mods. I remember a lot of good things from WB but man there were a ton of bad things too.

Lmao try to argue a bit instead of calling stuff without arguments, you all are basically missing everything of what I say in purpose. I'm not saying Warband was perfect, I'm not saying Warband didnt lacked an incredible amount of quests and I'm not saying that Warband wasnt repetitive. I'm saying that Bannerlord is not only as repetitive as Warband it also manages to lose the magic the old game created with just a simple detail as saying "this village is devoted to you" reading that already created a sensation that Bannerlord clearly lacks, and thus this is why it feels like slave trading villagers could almost give a crap about you anyways if not for 1 single line of dialog. If Bannerlord added actual dialog options with notables (currently there is none), if bannerlord added quests that made sense to happen from time to time and if Bannerlord added a more invested dialog with villagers it would improve the experience by thousands but instead it sticks with the same old crap but even worse.

 

[black_bulldog]

Lmao try to argue a bit instead of calling stuff without arguments, you all are basically missing everything of what I say in purpose. I'm not saying Warband was perfect, I'm not saying Warband didnt lacked an incredible amount of quests and I'm not saying that Warband wasnt repetitive. I'm saying that Bannerlord is not only as repetitive as Warband it also manages to lose the magic the old game created with just a simple detail as saying "this village is devoted to you" reading that already created a sensation that Bannerlord clearly lacks, and thus this is why it feels like slave trading villagers could almost give a crap about you anyways if not for 1 single line of dialog. If Bannerlord added actual dialog options with notables (currently there is none), if bannerlord added quests that made sense to happen from time to time and if Bannerlord added a more invested dialog with villagers it would improve the experience by thousands but instead it sticks with the same old crap but even worse.

Man the whole village recruitment experience is incredibly gamey. To me it's more like fishing in a pond. Well the pond is empty better come back when the tadpoles have grown up. Idk if this conversation are very far down the list of things to do or they just don't care or they just didn't think of it. But I really think we're dealing with game developers who don't know what direction they want to go or maybe it's that they don't really know how.
Obtw I never said anything about you saying Warband was perfect but if you're going to call TW out on **** with Bannerlord then at least acknowledge how janky and bad the writing was in Warband.

 

[XDaron]

one question, is prosperity of the village increased by doing headman quests? if not, they probably should change it so it does.

a simple detail as saying "this village is devoted to you"

I do agree that small details like that (even though they are purely visual) go a long way on making the quests seem more impactful

 

[Apocal]

one question, is prosperity of the village increased by doing headman quests? if not, they probably should change it so it does.

Yes, it is.
+100 prosperity for extortion by deserters
+50 prosperity for delivering the herd and giving seed grain.
+10 for bandit base

edit: the 100 prosperity for extortion by deserters only happens if you refuse any reward, which you should always do because the money is trivial.

 

[RoboSenshi]

I don't understand how grinding rep for more recruits with the village headman is different from grinding rep through the village elder for more recruits. They didn't change anything in the essence of it except allowing you to pick the troops you get and offering one or two alternatives (landowners) that maybe have special troops.

For the record I dislike both recruitment systems. The best imo would be the Lance recruitment system in 1257AD. However, I prefer the village elder route because the current system stops working once there are no quests to do. In my save, I couldn't get any quests and my recruitment got ridiculously difficult. Also the current system doesn't take into account if you own the fief, your renown, the prosperity of the village or it's connected town etc. All things that should have been in the game as an improvement. Instead you just have to grind relations with a slaver. If I own a village, I don't care about the relations with the "notables" I should be able to recruit more troops. It's immersion breaking.

I think a lot of Warband players need to take off the rose tinted glasses, either that or they only remember playing with mods. I remember a lot of good things from WB but man there were a ton of bad things too.

You have to understand that many people, me included, had never played anything like warband when it came out. Till today, it's probably my favorite game ever. And I'm talking about before mods. The mods took it to masterpiece level. But I don't think that people are saying warband was perfect. It certainly wasn't. But it managed to have "heart" or an appeal that drew people in. Something that BL has seemingly failed to do with some fans, me included.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I play on realistic recruitment, but with how rare and dumb quests can be, it definitely is annoying to get anywhere. Lucky for us, mods are here to save us again.

Kill Bandits Raise Relations.

The best imo would be the Lance recruitment system in 1257AD.

I don't know how realistic that method of recruitment would be in the timeframe. Wasn't the Lance more of a high medieval thing?

On another note, I'd love to see unique faction recruitment styles be a thing. Something like fyrds for Vlandians, leidang (or Rus equivalent) for Sturgians, that sort of stuff.

 

[RoboSenshi]

It may have been, but if you've played 1257AD it's a very enjoyable system of recruitment.

Btw I have that mod installed.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I don't know how realistic that method of recruitment would be in the timeframe. Wasn't the Lance more of a high medieval thing?

The general idea of lance recruitment is more or less how armies would have been gathered in most of the world up until the pike and shot era. A noble is given jurisdiction over a few settlements, and part of the "deal" is that a portion of able bodied men have to be levied during wartime. In the game this means you get them for free, but are incentivised to "return" them when the campaign ends. The rest of the time you travel with a small retinue of companions, knights or mercenaries.

Even so, absolutely anything is better than the human trafficking system bannerlord currently has. If we're using history to inform the game mechanics, the very concept of buying peasants and training them up is completely flawed.