Why the hell is the Tannery so overpowered?

[Dabos37]

There's no question the wisdom of the crowd has value, and I agree with the crowd we have a sample here that workshop income is on the low side in general and should probably be closer to where Tanneries currently are (though I re-iterate, Tanneries appear to perform as they do because of a supply and demand bug with Leather and should still be fixed in isolation of a general increase in workshop performance to get them all to a similar profit level).

It is worth noting that our "crowd" in this case really only represents the very hardcore Bannerlord player. This forum has 253,041 members, less than 10% of the players of the game, and most of those members lurk. Prolific posters on this forum are the 1 percenters of Bannerlord, and so we shouldn't be assumed to speak for everyone. It should also be noted that hardcore players play the game more than almost everyone on the dev team does, QA being the exception. That gives a different kind of knowledge, a different perspective. This is useful, but once again hardcores need to realise their perspective is not the only one.

The designer's intuition and metrics must play an even bigger part when working out the casual player's experience and how to make that experience compelling and worthwhile. You can get some direct engagement with casual players with an appropriate playtesting outreach program, but it is hard to sustain engagement through changes and keep a flow of fresh casual testers who are willing and able to provide actionable feeback.

I am far to be a hardcore player. I have just 700 hours in Warband and 200 in Bannerlord (200 is actually a lot but not in covid-19 times). The game is simply really easy for everyone and I have no read any single thread (well just 1 or 2) about people asking for help to make money. It is because even new/casual players are having 0 issues with getting a good amount of denars.

While I am not a hardcore player, I like challenging games which requiere some effort to master, but Bannerlord simply lacks any kind of difficulty, especially when we talk about getting money which is a key part of the game.

 

[Dionaea]

I am far to be a hardcore player. I have just 700 hours in Warband and 200 in Bannerlord (200 is actually a lot but not in covid-19 times). The game is simply really easy for everyone and I have no read any single thread (well just 1 or 2) about people asking for help to make money. It is because even new/casual players are having 0 issues with getting a good amount of denars.

While I am not a hardcore player, I like challenging games which requiere some effort to master, but Bannerlord simply lacks any kind of difficulty, especially when we talk about getting money which is a key part of the game.

The game is not easy to make denars it's a frickin grind for anyone not liking the mighty warlord always fighting and looting warrior playstyle, and anything that makes the more pacifist exploring wanderer approach enjoyable is nerfed like crazy because of people like you.

 

[Dabos37]

It doesn't really matter if tanneries get nerfed or not beacause everyone knows that winning battles are the best source of money. Even if it is just looters. Nobody is becoming a millionaire with workshops. All it will do is screw over those that don't play blood thirsty warlords.
Although if they do implement the ability to upgrade workshops then I can see tanneries getting a nerf.

Killing looters is just profitable due to inflate equipment prices.

Inflate equipment prices is the result of people swiming in money.

On the other hand, I can sit in a town with 3 tanneries and two caravans which we can get in early game, and make 300k denars in 100 days while watching TV.

 

[meowwoofneigh]

On the other hand, I can sit in a town with 3 tanneries and two caravans which we can get in early game, and make 300k denars in 100 days while watching TV.

I would like to have whatever you're drinking to make up that kind of story, must be good to know so many things others don't, imaginary or otherwise.

 

[Dabos37]

I would like to have whatever you're drinking to make up that kind of story, must be good to know so many things others don't, imaginary or otherwise.

Well, It is a true story. You can just buy 3 tanneries in the first 50-70 days (lets not even count caravans), then disband all your units, go to Galend which rarely will be besieged and wait, go to watch TV and come back after some time. 100 days = 150K = true story.

Good luck trying to use this horrible strategy in Warband. In 100 days you are not even able to get back your Dyes workshop investment. Eventhough, most of the people invest on workshops in Warband and they are still pretty useful.

 

[Nakh]

Oh well, you can buy any workshops which will give you 100 gold per day and wait for 1000 days and have 300 000 gold. 100 gold per day is too much, need to be nerfed. Really?

 

[meowwoofneigh]

Oh well, you can buy any workshops which will give you 100 gold per day and wait for 1000 days and have 300 000 gold. 100 gold per day is too much, need to be nerfed. Really?

They'll keep on demanding nerfs like that obnoxious idiot is trying to do here until full game release day, and when those 'realistic balancing nerfs' come around they'll just mod it all away to oblivion then act as if they had nothing to do with it, claiming it's everyone's fault the vanilla game is 'ruined' because of 'the community'.

 

[Dabos37]

Oh well, you can buy any workshops which will give you 100 gold per day and wait for 1000 days and have 300 000 gold. 100 gold per day is too much, need to be nerfed. Really?

Well, 1000 days is actually a lot of days and you probably would have to see a lot of movies before reach that point. You could watch the Irishman in Netflix which is a pretty long movie and then come back and not sure if It would be enough, probably yes xD.

Anyway, your argument is simply invalid because obviously you are going to get profit over time with workshops. The thing is how fast you get profit from them. Currently, you get profit from workshops too fast and It is what I find wrong.

 

[Dabos37]

They'll keep on demanding nerfs like that obnoxious idiot is trying to do here until full game release day, and when those 'realistic balancing nerfs' come around they'll just mod it all away to oblivion then act as if they had nothing to do with it, claiming it's everyone's fault the vanilla game is 'ruined' because of 'the community'.

One of the most popular Warband mods (floris) actually makes the game harder than vanilla. Taking into account that Warband is harder than Bannerlord, not sure if you are really aware of what the community really want.

 

[Nakh]

Well, 1000 days is actually a lot of days and you probably would have to see a lot of movies before reach that point. You could watch the Irishman in Netflix which is a pretty long movie and then come back and not sure if It would be enough, probably yes xD.

Anyway, your argument is simply invalid because obviously you are going to get profit over time with workshops. The thing is how fast you get profit from them. Currently, you get profit from workshops too fast and It is what I find wrong.

My argument mirror yours almost 100% accurately, so your invalid too. If player chose to wait 100 days to get 150 000, why not to wait 200 days to get same amount? Or 300 days? What Tanneries nerf will do for this scenario?

 

[meowwoofneigh]

One of the most popular Warband mods (floris) actually makes the game harder than vanilla. Taking into account that Warband is harder than Bannerlord, not sure if you are really aware of what the community really want.

Literal troll semantics, no substance other than biased rubbish.

 

[IceNoVa]

Here's a friendly reminder to to keep your discussion civil and constructive.

 

[Dabos37]

My argument mirror yours almost 100% accurately, so your invalid too. If player chose to wait 100 days to get 150 000, why not to wait 200 days to get same amount? Or 300 days? What Tanneries nerf will do for this scenario?

Well, It is the same difference between having to kill 5 looters parties to make money, compared to having to farm 100 parties. In the same way that having to grind looters ir more tedious to the player, having to wait much more time does. Plus the world could change a lot in 1000 days and snowballing happens, while not in 100 days. These are the main differences and why I think your example is invalid.

 

[Nakh]

Well, It is the same difference between having to kill 5 looters parties to make money, compared to having to farm 100 parties. In the same way that having to grind looters ir more tedious to the player, having to wait much more time does. Plus the world could change a lot in 1000 days and snowballing happens, while not in 100 days. These are the main differences and why I think your example is invalid.

Still, not valid. Nerf Tannery income by half and wait just 200 days to have same result. Not much difference between 100 and 200 days, and snowballing will be fixed one day to the point, where we will need heirs to continue world conquest.

 

[Dabos37]

Literal troll semantics, no substance other than biased rubbish.

Sorry but I disagree. I am giving valid arguments and talking about numbers while people just get angry and insult without giving any evidence which supports your opinions.

 

[Dabos37]

Still, not valid. Nerf Tannery income by half and wait just 200 days to have same result. Not much difference between 100 and 200 days, and snowballing will be fixed one day to the point, where we will need heirs to continue world conquest.

Well, having to wait 200 days to get 120K is actually much more reasonable than having to just wait 100 days for 150K. As I said before, workshops should always be profitable and you always will get money from them, the thing is how fast you get money and currently you can get tons of money really fast. Call me crazy but I actually notice a huge difference between having to wait 100 extra days for less denars.

 

[Nakh]

Why it is reasonable? Player who want to cheat this way will still get any amount of money. Following your logic it is broken and need to be nerfed more.

Currently 3 Tanneries can pay wages for one strong party, like 100-150 elite soldiers, which is must have, since player always outnumbered, expecially if trying to create kingdom. If we nerf it by half it become pointless for anyone, who don't want to sit in city and wait 200 days.

 

[Dionaea]

Well, having to wait 200 days to get 120K is actually much more reasonable than having to just wait 100 days for 150K. As I said before, workshops should always be profitable and you always will get money from them, the thing is how fast you get money and currently you can get tons of money really fast. Call me crazy but I actually notice a huge difference between having to wait 100 extra days for less denars.

No you can't! stop "1337 gamer here everything must be nerfed becuz I'm too gud" trolling

 

[Dabos37]

Why it is reasonable? Player who want to cheat this way will still get any amount of money. Following your logic it is broken and need to be nerfed more.

Currently 3 Tanneries can pay wages for one strong party, like 100-150 elite soldiers, which is must have, since player always outnumbered, expecially if trying to create kingdom. If we nerf it by half it become pointless for anyone, who don't want to sit in city and wait 200 days.

With 3 tanneries you can pay an army which simply destroys other AI armies with similar numbers without having a single loss. You are not supposed to be outnumbered except if you want to be King since day 200-300. You are talking like if you would be playing alone against all Lords which is simply not true.

You simply can play as vassal until get your first fief and then have a huge advantage over everyone because the AI is not able to get money from workshops and caravans. Then is funny to read the people complaining about the unfair AI cheats, when actually is the player who has huge advantages and this is why the game feels pretty easy.

No you can't! stop "1337 gamer here everything must be nerfed becuz I'm too gud" trolling

Great contibution for the thread, pretty useful for devs.

 

[Nakh]

King will always be outnumbered, no matter day 300 or 1300. On kingdom start you have your own party plus companion parties, something like 600 soldiers at most. And doomstacks of 1000 -1300 coming at you is pretty normal and usual situation. And 3 Tanneries do almost nothing at this stage of the game, and you want to make them do even less, because 0.001% of players wish to wait 100 days to get 150 000 gold early game.