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Why Roleplay Servers Will Never Work

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Splintert

Count
M&BWB
Actually autotax is only done when stuff is bought, not sold.

But I see your point. Giving value to castles automatically gives players something to do. What should be the placement of raw materials outside of the castle's walls? I'm currently dipping my toes in a tier system for my map.
 

Erk

Knight
Autotax works for exports. You can link them to the castle chest! :smile:

It doesn't work for regular items (resources, etc.) sold to a stockpile, but it does if you sell to an export location. (I have seen it working).

Here it would be simpler, eliminate crafting, so no instead of stockpiles, (with exception of good for doors and siege materials) you can have export locations.

Resource collection could be a variety of things because now you don't need players to do all of it to supply crafters. You just want the visual effect.

Outside castle I would place sticks and no more. The rest I would place in a more or less divided (across castles) middle ground.  Not far away though! That was the mistake of borderlands v1.

My main concern with the map, aside from this economic incentives, is to produce a small map. I would prefer a small map full of little places than a large map of empty spaces. 2 -3 castles would be enough for me. Then maybe a semi-castle for bandits.

We can talk about it.

My suggestions in brief:

- Small map

- Not many castles

- Castles should be worth keeping (exports tricks)

- No crafting! The first map to successfully exploit this new feature will be a success.


Then there is the issue of rational castle design as opposed to some lord of the rings fantasy...Pretty is good but functional is a must!
 

clant

Squire
Successful chest means a successful faction, only problem being when things are too protected and you can't break in as an outlaw  :lol: I liked the main castle from RCC because I was able to break in yet there were still ample amounts of doors in my way.
 

Serann

Master Knight
Splintert said:
If you ever want roleplay again, you'll have to help redefine random to mean.. you know... randomly killing. "Killing = random" is not healthy.

Actually, when I want to roleplay, I do not go to PW anymore, so I couldn't care less.
Aside from that, you are of course exaggerating.
 

Rasorath

Sergeant Knight
WB
Erk said:
Seriously, would anyone think that making unreasonable demands or death is not randoming? It is randoming v2, where the lad in question doesn't want to get banned.
It's not randoming unless you randomly kill. If the person being robbed don't want to be killed, he can simply drop the coins.

I don't see how demanding all the coins a person has is "unreasonable".
If they only have 1000 coins, they will only have to drop 1000 coins. If they have 10000, they will only have to drop 10000. No one will be able to demand anything more than what the person is able to pay, therefore, he will not be randoming.

A situation where someone is randomly killing someone else is entirely different from a situation where someone is demanding a person drop the coins they are carrying, that is just how it is.
Because to "random" someone is to kill someone without a reason and, in this situation, he has a reason, he has given warning, and he has given a chance to avoid combat.
 

Serann

Master Knight
I guess you could argue that the person was randomly selected, therefore "randomed".

And in what scenario is a man going to hand over every single coin he has, instead of just dying and just losing ~20% of it?
After all, you can demand all their other stuff too, so they really lose nothing by dying that they wouldn't lose by complying.
I mean, they can even demand that you walk with them to a chest and hand over your armor, that way you would even lose
time by not dying.

In fact, they might save some more time by respawning somewhere close to where they wanted to go, which cuts them some
walking.

So you might as well just make it a rule that all outlaws can be killed on sight and kill on sight, that way you at least get some
action free of the burden of rules.
 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Erk said:
Autotax works for exports. You can link them to the castle chest! :smile:

It doesn't work for regular items (resources, etc.) sold to a stockpile, but it does if you sell to an export location. (I have seen it working).

Here it would be simpler, eliminate crafting, so no instead of stockpiles, (with exception of good for doors and siege materials) you can have export locations.

Resource collection could be a variety of things because now you don't need players to do all of it to supply crafters. You just want the visual effect.

Outside castle I would place sticks and no more. The rest I would place in a more or less divided (across castles) middle ground.  Not far away though! That was the mistake of borderlands v1.

My main concern with the map, aside from this economic incentives, is to produce a small map. I would prefer a small map full of little places than a large map of empty spaces. 2 -3 castles would be enough for me. Then maybe a semi-castle for bandits.

We can talk about it.

My suggestions in brief:

- Small map

- Not many castles

- Castles should be worth keeping (exports tricks)

- No crafting! The first map to successfully exploit this new feature will be a success.


Then there is the issue of rational castle design as opposed to some lord of the rings fantasy...Pretty is good but functional is a must!

This Erk.

I didn't saw this on this point but i will make a try whenever i can in a age of empire fashion or a basic map.
 

Rasorath

Sergeant Knight
WB
Serann said:
I guess you could argue that the person was randomly selected, therefore "randomed".
Not randomly killed, and in most cases, not even randomly selected. When robbing, most people tend to chose the easiest targets, or the targets that will grant the most profit.

Serann said:
And in what scenario is a man going to hand over every single coin he has, instead of just dying and just losing ~20% of it?
After all, you can demand all their other stuff too, so they really lose nothing by dying that they wouldn't lose by complying.
I mean, they can even demand that you walk with them to a chest and hand over your armor, that way you would even lose
time by not dying.
Yes, and what is the problem with this? The point is that they can pay up if they really don't want to die, and there will be one less restriction.
 

Serann

Master Knight
Nobody is going to hand over all their money to not be killed. Unless they would be RPing,
and nobody is when there's a chance to fight. So why not drop it and just make outlaws
all automatically hostile? Unless that was the part you said you agreed with.
 

Rasorath

Sergeant Knight
WB
Serann said:
Nobody is going to hand over all their money to not be killed. Unless they would be RPing,
and nobody is when there's a chance to fight. So why not drop it and just make outlaws
all automatically hostile? Unless that was the part you said you agreed with.
I would not have a problem with outlaws being automatically hostile.
I also agree that the majority would not hand over all their money, but I disagree with that being a problem. If a robber wanted something other than a fight, he could still demand small amounts, but I doubt most robbers would.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
It's ridiculously easy to get into a fight if you wanted to. I'm speaking from experience. Almost anything will tick someone off into attacking you.

Erk said:
Autotax works for exports. You can link them to the castle chest! :smile:

It doesn't work for regular items (resources, etc.) sold to a stockpile, but it does if you sell to an export location. (I have seen it working).

Here it would be simpler, eliminate crafting, so no instead of stockpiles, (with exception of good for doors and siege materials) you can have export locations.

Resource collection could be a variety of things because now you don't need players to do all of it to supply crafters. You just want the visual effect.

Outside castle I would place sticks and no more. The rest I would place in a more or less divided (across castles) middle ground.  Not far away though! That was the mistake of borderlands v1.

My main concern with the map, aside from this economic incentives, is to produce a small map. I would prefer a small map full of little places than a large map of empty spaces. 2 -3 castles would be enough for me. Then maybe a semi-castle for bandits.

We can talk about it.

My suggestions in brief:

- Small map

- Not many castles

- Castles should be worth keeping (exports tricks)

- No crafting! The first map to successfully exploit this new feature will be a success.


Then there is the issue of rational castle design as opposed to some lord of the rings fantasy...Pretty is good but functional is a must!

Any scene that functions on conquest also functions on No Money and Quick Battle modes.

The export autotax is interesting. They are usually at a higher default price, while taking longer to sell. Perhaps I shall make a "Quick Battle" version of my scene in addition to the normal conquest version.

As for resource placement, I'm working with

Low tier: flax, wheat, leather
Mid tier: wood, salt
High tier: iron, gold, silver

Higher tiers are further from castles, and more likely to be contested, while low tier has relatively low rewards but are well within a castles sphere of influence.
 

Erk

Knight
I honestly don't see the point with that defense of handing in all the gold.


It is beyond doubt that asking for such a think is equivalent to saying: fight for your life. Because there is absolutely no scenario in which giving the gold is a better option for the robbed person.


Now, according to Rasorath's vision of PW (not only his, I would say), it is alright to choose people going around in the map and tell them "fight for your life". And then they don't have any option but to do so.

I don't like it. I don't think it is substantively different from going to someone and just attacking them shouting "I need your eyes for my necklace!".

It is not pure randoming in the sense that the victim gets a warning that a fight will occur, but it is a sort of gameplay that I don't like. I don't like it because there are way too many individuals going around just looking for fights for no good reason. I don't think that it contributes to anyone's fun to have the possibility of being forced to fight at any time by anyone. I call that native.

The whole point of PW is the fact that there should be some more purpose behind what people do. In fact, the game mechanics are aimed at providing some sort of simulation of medieval societies . You rob because you want something from someone else. You mine because you want that shiny armor. You conquer a castle because you want the power and wealth that holding land means.

I want rules and scene design to support this vision of PW. More scene design that rules, but there should be some minimal rules still. If you want some other PW, I am fine with that but I am not going to support it. I will argue a bit with you and when it is obvious that we don't share views, I'll drop it and let you be.

Now, gold limits exist already and in Nexus those are a fraction of your wealth and whatever you are carrying / transporting. I like it. Good luck convincing server owners to go with no limits :razz:.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
The goal isn't to encourage going around telling people "fight or die". It's encouraging players to deal with their own problems. Robber robbing? Go kill him.

Now, that obviously becomes issue when the robber is better than an entire faction, but at that point the factions should play strategically rather than running into his great sword.
 

Knüppel

Sergeant Knight
WB
Erk said:
I don't like it. I don't think it is substantively different from going to someone and just attacking them shouting "I need your eyes for my necklace!".
Now then tell me why you want to support exactly this non-productive playstyle by disabling crafting, whi9ch in effect means access to heavy wargear at all time?
 

Erk

Knight
My issue with the tier systems is not that I dislike it per se, is that often it means that grinding becomes too easy.


I think that any serious gold earning activity should be, in principle, rough. You should be exposed to robbing, it should be easy to ambush you in multiple occasions on your way to the selling point (castle, I would suggest).


That is half the fun of PW. The thrill of managing to sell a cargo of gold in NZ's docks after fighting on several occasions with some bandits. Bandits attacking you at the mines, ambushing you at the castle gates, hidden in the attic in the export location of the docks.

For me, any gold grinding should resemble this experience to a certain extend. I know it is a vague idea, but still.

Of course, you need to place some small money earning activity in a relatively safe environment. I would go for the simplest, sticks.

Regarding the tiering, given a no crafting scene, why not have more activities on the high reward end? Just for the sake of variety. I guess I would skip the mid tier. Boring! Or very rewarding or not rewarding beyond the purchasing power of a horse and tools! I guess I am rather extreme but I do mean it.


Exports indeed take longer, but well it is possible to play with the gold per unit of time concept. It takes longer, just consider that in the reward it gives.

My other concern is pricing. How much should I work to get a shiny armor? My beloved great sword? That is a debate in itself.

By the way, what is the shape / size of the map you are thinking of?
 

Gerard_de_reinee

Sergeant Knight
WBWF&S
Well, I am reading your posts here and I am wondering, if anyone would be interested in passworded, real RP server?

We could make a forum, where you'd be able to apply with your character name, background, generally the whole history.

It would be very hard to create the rules matching with everyone's imaginary of roleplay, but would the server need any rules?

I am actually an owner of server, I think I could switch the mod to PW.
 

Erk

Knight
Knüppel said:
Erk said:
I don't like it. I don't think it is substantively different from going to someone and just attacking them shouting "I need your eyes for my necklace!".
Now then tell me why you want to support exactly this non-productive playstyle by disabling crafting, whi9ch in effect means access to heavy wargear at all time?


Well, I would price items so that if you don't think a bit, you'll never manage to earn the gold for your great sword. And I would make factions by far the best money making machines, the way that I have described to Splintert. At best you can provide the incentives for organization, how can you avoid people deathmatching with rusty swords?


PS -To avoid the double post. Nice Aldric! :smile:
 

1stNOG-IDF

Recruit
CarpeDiem said:
Well, I am reading your posts here and I am wondering, if anyone would be interested in passworded, real RP server?

We could make a forum, where you'd be able to apply with your character name, background, generally the whole history.

It would be very hard to create the rules matching with everyone's imaginary of roleplay, but would the server need any rules?

I am actually an owner of server, I think I could switch the mod to PW.

If it was possible, I'd switch my server to PW as well. However, I've tried and I can't seem to figure it out.

I for one would absolutely love to be involved in your server, if it is to ever appear.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
Erk said:
My issue with the tier systems is not that I dislike it per se, is that often it means that grinding becomes too easy.


I think that any serious gold earning activity should be, in principle, rough. You should be exposed to robbing, it should be easy to ambush you in multiple occasions on your way to the selling point (castle, I would suggest).


That is half the fun of PW. The thrill of managing to sell a cargo of gold in NZ's docks after fighting on several occasions with some bandits. Bandits attacking you at the mines, ambushing you at the castle gates, hidden in the attic in the export location of the docks.

For me, any gold grinding should resemble this experience to a certain extend. I know it is a vague idea, but still.

Of course, you need to place some small money earning activity in a relatively safe environment. I would go for the simplest, sticks.

Regarding the tiering, given a no crafting scene, why not have more activities on the high reward end? Just for the sake of variety. I guess I would skip the mid tier. Boring! Or very rewarding or not rewarding beyond the purchasing power of a horse and tools! I guess I am rather extreme but I do mean it.


Exports indeed take longer, but well it is possible to play with the gold per unit of time concept. It takes longer, just consider that in the reward it gives.

My other concern is pricing. How much should I work to get a shiny armor? My beloved great sword? That is a debate in itself.

By the way, what is the shape / size of the map you are thinking of?

If there are too many high tier places, players will be too spread out and it won't be dangerous. In my current setup I have 2 high tier locations, with 4 total factions. One of the high tier locations can be completely locked up by a cooperative of 2 of the factions, and the other isn't as defensible. This, in addition to some choke points, creates a very dangerous trip back to your castle if you are undefended.

One of the reasons I prefer a tiered system is that the default prices for raw materials disallows making wheat or leather or food the most valued material on a scene. It only sells for less than 100 per bundle, so no one will actually use it. By placing it in abundance, in safe places, hopefully a faction can just pay someone to do the farming. It's especially important for the 2 cavalry based factions, as they need wheat to make horses.

The scene size is largest x/y scale at the smallest polygon size, creating a scene that is smaller than most PW maps but larger than a Native battlefield.
 

Rasorath

Sergeant Knight
WB
Erk said:
Now, according to Rasorath's vision of PW (not only his, I would say), it is alright to choose people going around in the map and tell them "fight for your life". And then they don't have any option but to do so.
As Splintert already said, it is not to encourage more killing, it is to remove another restriction from the game, and make players have to deal with their problems on their own, without the protective shield of rules and restrictions.

I aim to remove restrictions, not to encourage killing. One less restriction brings us one step closer to the ideal ruleset in my mind, which I imagine is almost identical to Splintert's, which I think he has posted in this thread.

CarpeDiem said:
Well, I am reading your posts here and I am wondering, if anyone would be interested in passworded, real RP server?

We could make a forum, where you'd be able to apply with your character name, background, generally the whole history.

It would be very hard to create the rules matching with everyone's imaginary of roleplay, but would the server need any rules?

I am actually an owner of server, I think I could switch the mod to PW.
If you can make some of the people with a backspace key broken due to overuse go play on your server, that would be lovely.
 
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