Why people suck at siege

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Aklis

Squire
So. The most played server right now is the 84e_NW_siege server. It seems people enjoy siege, no?

So why are people so mindblowingly bad at it?!

The reason is simple. People are afraid. The defending side invariably seems to be the more popular choice no matter the factions, because people prefer to sit behind their walls and take pot shots at the attackers. When people can't play defender, they do the exact same thing on the attacking side, a cause of constant frustration for people like me - people who know how to play.

Just a minute ago, I was on the server. This is what the score table looked when I left:

B4894BC728EDB4466035F3D348FB88E4A6BDFC5C

I want you to take a look at a few things.

To begin with, the defenders have, on average, a far better K/D ratio than the attackers, because they sit behind the walls, taking the aforementioned pot shots at the attackers - just what they should do. On the attacking side, only five players are in the double digits. A third or so (which you can't see because it is off screen) doesn't even have a single kill. The reason for this is simple. The attackers are trying to shoot the defenders, who are sitting behind their walls and are as such quite safe. There will occasionally be a lucky hit, but come on, really?

Now, admittedly, because of our artillery and sappers lacking in competence, we never managed to breach the walls - not once in three rounds - which may have played a part in the fact that people weren't getting very many kills But wait. Look at me, Thomas Pomeroy, at the top of the list. 20 kills, fourth on the server. But, you might say, you've got 28 deaths!

Yes, and this is for one simple reason. You see, there were loads of defenders sitting on the bridge, or just inside the gate. Every time I reached them - which was only something like four or five times - I managed to kill several people before I died. The other 20-something deaths is the result of trying to reach the defenders and being shot along the way; one man, charging across the bridge without any back-up is an easy target, unlike the people sitting in the trench and being completely useless.

The way to win a siege as the attacking team is simple: You breach the walls with your cannons and then you keep charging in over and over and killing defenders until you've killed them so many times that you can stroll up to the flag and take it, because they're not respawning while you have unlimited lives, so you'll just keep respawning until the time is out. I don't claim to be a great Warband player. I'm decent at best, but if I can get 20 kills as an attacker, there is absolutely no reason for people to be stuck on three.

tl;dr

If you're attacking in siege, charge instead of sitting in trenches, you will respawn and they won't. Don't be useless if you're playing artillery. Being new is no excuse. There is a tutorial and a big feckin' wall isn't exactly difficult to hit in the first place.
 
Why did you make an entire thread to tell everyone on the attacker team that they're bad and should do better like you? You aren't making this to help the new players out either, don't try to tell me that ****.
 
DrTaco 说:
Why did you make an entire thread to tell everyone on the attacker team that they're bad and should do better like you? You aren't making this to help the new players out either, don't try to tell me that ****.

Megaberna 说:
Tl;DR

"If you don't play like me you suck!"

Did you two even read what I wrote?

I wrote this post because I was, and am, utterly exasperated at the vast majority of players' cowardice and general uselessness - which is what they are when they are sitting off in the distance, trying to shoot the defenders on the walls with weapons that are famously unreliable, and failing miserably. There is no excuse for this. Have these people no desire to win? Are they even aware that hiding in the trenches won't help you win in a million years?
 
Aklis 说:
DrTaco 说:
Why did you make an entire thread to tell everyone on the attacker team that they're bad and should do better like you? You aren't making this to help the new players out either, don't try to tell me that ****.

Megaberna 说:
Tl;DR

"If you don't play like me you suck!"

Did you two even read what I wrote?

I wrote this post because I was, and am, utterly exasperated at the vast majority of players' cowardice and general uselessness - which is what they are when they are sitting off in the distance, trying to shoot the defenders on the walls with weapons that are famously unreliable, and failing miserably. There is no excuse for this. Have these people no desire to win? Are they even aware that hiding in the trenches won't help you win in a million years?

"If you don't play like me you suck!"

and

"If you don't have the same opinion that me you also suck!"
 
Try joining a regiment and do a organised siege, may give you a better siege experience
 
Megaberna 说:
"If you don't play like me you suck!"

and

"If you don't have the same opinion that me you also suck!"

Stop putting words in my mouth. Are you honestly trying to say that it is beneficial to stay away from the enemy?

MazZ 说:
Try joining a regiment and do a organised siege, may give you a better siege experience

Yeah, you're right.
 
I've got to admit, I absolutely hate that map. It's an absolute ***** to attack.

Some maps I'll choose attacker and some I'll go defender. It simply depends on the positions available, if I can find a good sharpshooting position then I'll always go attacker but I simply get too much lag to go CQ in a siege.
 
lol ive seen a lot of these "If you arent like me you suck/Aren't doing it right" posts.

People play the way they want. They aren't trying to please you or anyone else. Just let people play the game.
 
It's so frustrating how many people think they can beat the defenders in a prolonged shootout when the defenders are behind walls. So exasperating to see people hanging back at the breach and reloading while the clock is ticking, when everybody who has played Siege more than once or twice should readily comprehend that the key is to charge to exploit the attackers' advantage: numerical superiority. Instead of playing to win as a team, people only care about their personal stats, but someone who didn't kill anybody and died 10 times but who charged the breach is a better Siege player than someone who hangs back and gets 4-5 lucky shots.
 
I agree with him. What is the attacker's objective? Capture the castle. What do you do when you wanna capture a castle? Try and breach it, not stay in trenches with the hope your bullet goes through the wall and hits someone. People should fulfill the objectives given by the gamemode, shouldn't they?
 
I concur, but complaining on the forums isn't going to help.

If you want to help the situation, organize an out-of-game regiment (preferably with voice chat) who are able and willing to follow your orders, then have them carry out the strategies you're talking about.

I'd be willing to join such a regiment if you do it :grin:

Edit: If Guild Wars 2 has taught me anything, its to not expect anything reasonable or logical from the zerg :S
 
It's the same when there is a house next to the defenders flag, generally players would rather sit in the house than defend the flag even though they can see it getting captured.
 
fernetekhd 说:
I concur, but complaining on the forums isn't going to help.

If you want to help the situation, organize an out-of-game regiment (preferably with voice chat) who are able and willing to follow your orders, then have them carry out the strategies you're talking about.

I'd be willing to join such a regiment if you do it :grin:

Edit: If Guild Wars 2 has taught me anything, its to not expect anything reasonable or logical from the zerg :S

This post gave me an idea. If it still makes sense when I wake up tomorrow, I'll elaborate.
 
there are always player, that dont know how to win. But you shouldnt rage at them.
chat with the few in your team who know what they do, mostly thats enough to win on 84e siege
 
reredrumuoy 说:
lol ive seen a lot of these "If you arent like me you suck/Aren't doing it right" posts.

People play the way they want. They aren't trying to please you or anyone else. Just let people play the game.

That is totally deluded reredrumuoy. It is siege, it is a team game. First off, the idea of siege is that the attackers try to get in and take the flag. Secondly, surely the fun of the game mode is to play as much of it as you can inside the fort to enjoy the different environment, rather than just sniping and reloading from fields as if it was a TDM game on an outdoors map. Thirdly, if players on the attacking team don't want to make the effort to get in the fort, then they are effectively trolling the rest of the team. They are not playing with bots, they are playing with other humans, and their complete disregard for the rest of the team and the game mode is selfish. Why not play on a TDM server if they want to play in such an individual fashion? That way they would not spoil other peoples' game.

Besides, the OP contains some good points, though it is unhelpfully insulting- if some players read it and took it on board, not only would they be better at the game mode, they would probably find they enjoyed it a lot more. There was a match last night on that fort with the docks on the right, gatehouse on the left side, and despite occasional problems with arty (it is quite a tricky map to breach properly in the ideal wall), infantry attitude was mainly very good, and we had some great mass melee fights for extended periods in at least two of the three rounds. When people get a taste of that, it usually encourages them to play that way again. There were strings of men going in, often in clumps of 5 or 6, and though of course a couple got shot or stabbed at the breach the rest got in and we rapidly pushed the defenders back to the heart of the fort (the server was practically full, 170-200 players most of the evening GMT  :grin:).

Different players may have different motivations for camping- maybe they don't want to have to run from spawn to a favourite shooting spot often, maybe they are not confident in melee- but it might help for some to read the OP to see a different perspective. All players can contribute to a breach charge regardless of skill; always run forward is the key, blocking if you can or just dodging, even when opposed by the enemy, try and get beyond him so that he has to turn from the breach (which lets your allies in) or stop trying to fight you, which leaves you free to stab another defender, preferably an unaware reloader  :smile:. The key to being a successful attacker is getting past the ordered line of shooters on the wall, past the few melee defenders trying to keep you in a tight breach, and to run amok in the fort, stabbing and changing direction a lot when amongst a bunch of enemies, making them at the very least stop fighting your allies and leaving their strong defensive positions.

It is plain to see, whenever one goes on the 84e server, that campers die a lot anyway. They are often in overlooked positions so that they are shot from the walls, or they are hit by enemy mortars, or caught reloading by a sallying defender and stabbed. So while in most instances players like Pomelroy will die more than they kill, the same is often true for campers, the difference being that campers almost always have far less kills and don't disrupt the defenders nearly as much as even one fort invader does (even if you don't get a kill in the fort, if you are engaging the enemy in there you make them leave the walls and aid your meleeing teammates, making it safer for other attackers approaching the fort and helping those inside push the enemy back more).

It is an observable fact that camping does not win a siege. Even those very rare campers who manage to sometimes get a lot of kills with shooting will not play a decisive role in the fight, because the defenders will not leave their prime shooting positions because of these snipers, and so the attackers are no less vulnerable approaching the fort, and the breaches are still defended as well as they ever were. Only melee can make defenders leave their shooting spots and clear the breaches, and so get the attackers to the flag.

Another way of considering it; the OP's scoreboard (taken midway through the 3rd and final round) shows that there simply aren't anywhere near enough kills from shooting to deplete the 5 lives (per round) of each defender (the players with most kills will mostly play like the OP, or be arty). There are no 'impossible' maps for the attackers to win, though some are marginally harder than others, but some attackers often say that they are impossible because they have been on teams where there was far too much reloading and hanging back.

I am often near the top of the scoreboard as an attacker on siege, not because I am an excellent individual melee player (I am experienced so that I am familiar with most techniques but not  proficient in some), there are plenty of players (public and reg) who regularly best me one on one, but because I play in the way I have bolded in my third paragraph. It is a method taught in some regiments because it is very useful for causing chaos amongst the enemy. Whenever you are in a group of enemy, change direction often, switch targets so that the guy who thinks you are focused on his teammate, and hopes to stab you in the back, gets caught by surprise when you turn 180 degrees and stab him. Above all, keep moving and don't allow the enemy to get you in a tight spot. Most of my kills, when I get a lot of them, come from stabbing reloaders and artillerymen, usually while deliberately not slowing down enough for the bayonets behind me to catch up!
 
It is more of the bystander effect, if no one is running trying to get the fort then no one will be convinced to do it. That is of course if artillery breaches the wall. I have met good attackers and utterly bad attackers.
 
The only one that should be granted the privlage of camping, are the woman, the weak, the disabled, the children and the artilery.)
The rest should either get his musket and charge at the gate, or walk around and clinb the wall, or go trough on a destroyed part.

(I am talking about the attackers only)
 
Dion/Folcwar 说:
The only one that should be granted the privlage of camping, are the woman, the weak, the disabled, the children and the artilery.)
The rest should either get his musket and charge at the gate, or walk around and clinb the wall, or go trough on a destroyed part.

(I am talking about the attackers only)

You know your random feminist would probibly find this very sexist?
 
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