Why mods can fix and improve the game but devs can t?

[Stillness]

Taleworlds can t make things for money, but moddlers can make it for free.
Almost everything is missing or broken in this game can be fix by mods. The peace/war button is not working but there is a mod who does it...it is just an exemple.
You will say It is EA. EA is just an excuse to sell a game that you cant finish.
But can you use mods? No, because the next minor and useless patch will break your save. Why? You cant accept that somebody does a better work than you?
So Taleworlds, fix the game. Accept the fact that some people have better ideas. Respect us as clients and gamers.

And for people who will defend developers - Wake up.
Yes, I m a hater. I hate liars and scammers.

 

[XT-ended_2L]

tbh a lot of current issues could be fixed easily. They were not fixed till now, because the focus of the developer's team was at absolutely another long-term development stuff. And the reason for that - they did not intended to release the game now. Everyone understand they did it only because of situation with coronavirus in the world (everyone is at home playing games now - you cannot imagine better time for gaming industry). I cannot blame TW for this, marketing is marketing.

But I have to admit, they should change the focus, as the game is already released. EA or not, the focus should be changed now to make the game somehow playable and to avoid potential dissatisfaction.

 

[Stillness]

tbh a lot of current issues could be fixed easily. They were not fixed till now, because the focus of the developer's team was at absolutely another long-term development stuff. And the reason for that - they did not intended to release the game now. Everyone understand they did it only because of situation with coronavirus in the world (everyone is at home playing games now - you cannot imagine better time for gaming industry). I cannot blame TW for this, marketing is marketing.

But I have to admit, they should change the focus, as the game is already released. EA or not, the focus should be changed now to make the game somehow playable and to avoid potential dissatisfaction.

They announced the game last year, for mars 2020. before the world knowing about corona.

 

[blackdoggie]

It was us modders that were screaming for early access so that we can start breaking things and make stuff for YOU for free..
be grateful.

 

[XT-ended_2L]

They announced the game last year, for mars 2020. before the world knowing about corona.

They changed release dates 3 times minimum in my memory. Now I understand why. Also I think they would move it again, but as I said - quarantine.

 

[Maximum997]

Taleworlds can t make things for money, but moddlers can make it for free.

Becouse devs are to busy nerfing pottery

 

[Arzak]

It was us modders that were screaming for early access so that we can start breaking things and make stuff for YOU for free..
be grateful.

This.
OP says he's a hater. I hope he dies in a forest bandit hideout.

 

[Midnitewolf]

I get where the OP is coming from though. I mean we are talking about some very basic fixes. I get that they are concentrating on bigger things but it seems like there should be at least a small team dedicated to small fixes like getting most of the traits to actually do what they say they are supposed to do or things like that. At the end of the day it is kind of silly that we have to rely on mods for that sort of thing.

 

[paladinx333]

Becouse devs are to busy nerfing pottery

Amen to that. I think they also stealth nerfed breweries and smitties as well. They all make about on third of what they did in 1.0.11 located in the same cities.

 

[Yangbang]

At the end of the day it is kind of silly that we have to rely on mods for that sort of thing.

+1

 

[h1zchan]

Devs design the game to be moddable in the first place. Mods can only tweak things that devs made tweakable

 

[Badcritter]

This is why developers are reluctant to provide visibility into what's going on with development or to release unfinished games, because most players routinely misunderstand the process and how to interpret the state of a game just by playing it.

Now don't get me wrong - the feeling of "what have they been doing for the past decade?" is understandable given that right now Bannerlord is basically just the HD version of Warband with some important features removed/broken, and some new features ranging from interesting to questionable added instead.

But the silver lining is actually hiding in the complaint expressed by this thread's title. The reason modders are able to fix a lot of the issues with the game currently is because Taleworlds has invested heavily in building a foundation that makes that possible. It has taken them a long time to do it, arguably too long, but the moddable engine they have built means that most of the tuning and improvements needed to flesh the game out are accessible to people who were not involved in the programming of the game's engine or core content. That is pure gold, and people are starting to take advantage of it before the official modding tools have even been released. For now the developers are focusing on fixes that modders still can't do, as they should, and the rate at which they've been pumping them out has been impressive.

So go ahead and be upset at the state of the game, there are justifiable reasons to be so. Your expectations about where it should be after so long have not been met. But do not despair over its future potential. As the platform stabilises, content and tuning will flow from developers and modders alike at a pace which might even satisfy players who don't understand how much work it actually takes to make a good game.

 

[Bob Gnarly]

This is why developers are reluctant to provide visibility into what's going on with development or to release unfinished games, because most players routinely misunderstand the process and how to interpret the state of a game just by playing it.

Now don't get me wrong - the feeling of "what have they been doing for the past decade?" is understandable given that right now Bannerlord is basically just the HD version of Warband with some important features removed/broken, and some new features ranging from interesting to questionable added instead.

But the silver lining is actually hiding in the complaint expressed by this thread's title. The reason modders are able to fix a lot of the issues with the game currently is because Taleworlds has invested heavily in building a foundation that makes that possible. It has taken them a long time to do it, arguably too long, but the moddable engine they have built means that most of the tuning and improvements needed to flesh the game out are accessible to people who were not involved in the programming of the game's engine or core content. That is pure gold, and people are starting to take advantage of it before the official modding tools have even been released. For now the developers are focusing on fixes that modders still can't do, as they should, and the rate at which they've been pumping them out has been impressive.

So go ahead and be upset at the state of the game, there are justifiable reasons to be so. Your expectations about where it should be after so long have not been met. But do not despair over its future potential. As the platform stabilises, content and tuning will flow from developers and modders alike at a pace which might even satisfy players who don't understand how much work it actually takes to make a good game.

Good post.

Warbands longevity is thanks to it's moddability and the mod community, Bannerlord will be no different.

It blows my mind seeing all the whining on the forums, it's the same garbage you see in every EA forum. It's like people were expecting to play a fully polished AAA title instead of buying into a game still in development... I'm grateful that Bannerlord is now out and I can get a taste, but I'm even more thankful that it's available to the modding community to get stuck into.

 

[Bannerdog]

Let me start by saying I do not agree with the tone of the OP's topic title or the way he has phrased his post, even if he has a point underneath it. I also have no problem with a game being "Early Access", but it is amazing how many people are irrationally jumping to the Devs defence whenever they are criticized, essentially saying "OMG NOONE FORCED YOU TO BUY ITS EARLY ACCESS DEAL WITH IT".

Lets look at this situation more rationally. The fact is that TW are charging a premium price for an early access game full of very basic bugs and broken core features that they are then expecting users to playtest and identify for them. They are charging $55, a price usually reserved for finished AAA titles. TW could EASILY have charged $25 for early access to this game and still make a healthy profit and enough to continue working, but they CHOSE to charge a full AAA price for what is essentially a title in an Alpha state, knowing full well that many M&B fans would not be able to resist the opportunity to buy it. The resulting hype has also meant that many people new to the franchise are also buying it. It is reaching a wide audience without any restrictions such as limited keys etc.

This mass release (and it IS a release in its own form) comes with certain commitments and considerations, both in terms of quality AND ethics, and they must be held to account for this without having every rabid fanboy on the forum jumping to their defence and shouting down and valid criticism. I love this game and I see an amazing future for it when it is complete... but lets be honest and adult in our ability to deliver justifiable criticism and lets expect full transparency and respect from developers that are charging AAA prices for titles in a D- state of development.

The TW early access text says that: https://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/Mount__Blade_II_Bannerlord/

"While the early access version is very much stable and playable, players can expect to run into some obscure bugs and other issues while playing that we intend to locate and fix before the full release."

Many of the bugs in the game are certainly nowhere near "obscure". Many people have been having constant crashes that does not denote "very much stable". Some are bugs or missing features are extremely core and basic and denote a level of development less advanced than what they themselves advertise.

 

[TheCalradian]

Lets look at this situation more rationally. The fact is that TW are charging a premium price for an early access game full of very basic bugs and broken core features that they are then expecting users to playtest and identify for them.

Oh, you didn't read the part that you would be actually getting the full game when it is released. Now, your rationale makes sense.
They charge a full price for the full game you will receive. And, as you also allude to, the game is in the exact state that was stated in the EA description on the steam page and promising for the full game.

I don't think I am defending the devs as much as I'm just dismissing your rant. If you get a fourth grade math question wrong, I am not "defending" mathematics by correcting you.

* Read the product description.
* Understand that a sandbox simulation is a combination of many parts. When some of these parts are placeholder mechanics, there is little value in tuning or "fixing" the mechanic.

I have no doubt that the devs could easily make the same mods. But modding unfinished parts of the game is just for temporary gratification and likely to be thrown out at a later time. A modder can freely do this, but the developer is also responsible for spending your money on things that will benefit you in the long run.

 

[Bannerdog]

Oh, you didn't read the part that you would be actually getting the full game when it is released. Now, your rationale makes sense.

This is exactly the kind of irrational, defensively tetchy and altogether very predictable fanboy response I was referring to.

 

[Punchtown Hero]

I have no problem with a game being "Early Access", but it is amazing how many people are irrationally jumping to the Devs defence whenever they are criticized, essentially saying "OMG NOONE FORCED YOU TO BUY ITS EARLY ACCESS DEAL WITH IT".

The problem is people don't, can't or refuse to understand why we are coming to their defense and just keep yelling about how much they paid for a game that isn't finished yet. Also, since the game is stable and its core functions are there and working (almost) as intended, the game therefor is not in alpha but in beta.

 

[Clsy]

If only no man sky was released in EA no one will hate them, time have changed

 

[Bannerdog]

The problem is people don't, can't or refuse to understand why we are coming to their defense and just keep yelling about how much they paid for a game that isn't finished yet. Also, since the game is stable and its core functions are there and working (almost) as intended, the game therefor is not in alpha but in beta.

There are people who defend the game while accepting the truth of the situation, including me. There are others that defend the game like it's a perceived insult against their own mother and work under the assumption that anyone who complains must not understand the concept of "early access". I understand early access very well and I like this game very much hence why I am playing it a lot, but I also have a highly developed sense of responsibility and ethics mixed with a couple of decades of both being a gamer and holding down a challenging business career. There are few things I have not seen or encountered and it has given me an extremely balanced and objective view about most things in life. I don't deal in bias.

TW have a game with amazing potential that and that even at this stage, with all its warts, is bags of fun, we all know that, but by releasing it in this early state for a full AAA price they have opened themselves up to a world of criticism and must shoulder the burden of responsibility for commitment to quality. There are ongoing standards they need to be held to as a result of taking significant amounts of money from the userbase, for having our trust, and we need to not lose sight of that and be blinded by loyalty or passion for the game.

The TW early access text says that: https://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/Mount__Blade_II_Bannerlord/

"While the early access version is very much stable and playable, players can expect to run into some obscure bugs and other issues while playing that we intend to locate and fix before the full release."

Many of the bugs in the game are certainly nowhere near "obscure". Many people have been having constant crashes that does not denote "very much stable". Some are bugs or missing features are extremely core and basic and denote a level of development less advanced than what they themselves advertise.

 

[Punchtown Hero]

TW have a game with amazing potential, we all know that, but by releasing it in this early state for a full AAA price they have opened themselves up to a world of criticism and must shoulder the burden of responsibility for commitment to quality. There are ongoing standards they need to be held to as a result of taking significant amounts of money from the userbase, for having our trust, and we need to not lose sight of that and be blinded by loyalty or passion for the game.

I can agree with some/most of this and in my personal opinion I believe they are not only upholding high standards, but within the first 2 weeks of release they practically set a new bar compared to a lot of other developers. As for the significant amounts of money, eh.... bannerlord runs $50 and they granted a generous 20% off ($40 price) to players of their previous title and 10% off ($45 price) to everybody else which is I think is pretty fair considering it's probably going to stay in most peoples libraries for many years to come.

Edit: you forgot this
Bugs and glitches: Although we strive to create a stable game experience, the game will be actively developed during early access and hence there will be a greater chance of bugs and glitches creeping up. It will of course be a priority to fix these.