Why isn't the shield wall an actual shield wall?

[Aklis]

In yet another stunning display of Viking Conquest's mediocrity, the shield wall is not a wall of shields. It's a rather loose collection of troops in staggered order, with large gaps in between them. Given the already poor AI in Mount & Blade, this allows your enemy to simply rush through those gaps, completely defeating the purpose of having a shield wall in the first place. Well done, developers. Your historical accuracy is a guiding light in the darkness.

 

[Grimes]

You can order them to stand closer. I just wish we could get them to be a -real- shield wall, with the back lines pointing their shields upwards to defend from arrows and maybe even the 2nd line attacking with spears through the gaps. But that might be beyond the capability of the engine

 

[Yeyo]

You can order them to stand closer. I just wish we could get them to be a -real- shield wall, with the back lines pointing their shields upwards to defend from arrows and maybe even the 2nd line attacking with spears through the gaps. But that might be beyond the capability of the engine

I’m afraid so.

It’s supposed the shieldwall was a formation with the shields overlapped, but actually its “density” has been discussed. Some historians like I.P. Stephenson think that it was more expanded formation than the common belief, because each warrior needs space to use his weapons. As Stephen Pollington wrote in ‘The English Warrior’:

“The precise form of the wall is disputed: some argue for a close-knit formation with touching or overlapping shields from between which protrudes a thicket of spearshafts; other suggest that looser, more flexible array would be more in keeping with the nature of Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian warfare traditions. Unfortunately there is no precise and unambiguous description of a shieldwall from which to judge”.

We know the space among the soldiers was very important in the Roman way of war. In his military treatise, Vegetius wrote each legionary should occupy a front of three feet. At Cannae, Hannibal created an encirclement in one of the earliest known examples of a pincer movement. The Roman soldiers began crowding themselves and soon they were compacted together so closely that they had little space to wield their weapons. For this reason, they were slaughtered. Something similar happened when the Goths attacked the right flank of the Roman army in Adrianople (378 AD).

Probably, in the 9th century existed the same problem: some space would be needed between the warrior’s shoulders in order to allow them to wield their swords or axes. The shieldwall could be like a phalanx of spearmen, and so the warriors wouldn’t need so many lateral space. But we know the Greek phalanx could have three densities, as it’s cited in the Onassander’s treatise.

Probably, the shieldwall could be more or less dense, according of the terrain and the military context. But, as the matter of fact, there is not an academic accord about the precise form of the shieldwall.

 

[Aklis]

Let's face it, mate. A Viking shield wall would not feature massive gaps in the line where the enemy can simply run in unhindered and start hacking away from behind.

 

[Skraedos]

Let's face it, mate. A Viking shield wall would not feature massive gaps in the line where the enemy can simply run in unhindered and start hacking away from behind.

As Yeyo just explained, you are only assuming.

 

[Aklis]

As Yeyo just explained, you are only assuming.

Yes, I'm assuming that early medieval warriors did not want to have people stabbing them in the back while they were in battle.

 

[Redleg]

Let's face it, mate. A Viking shield wall would not feature massive gaps in the line where the enemy can simply run in unhindered and start hacking away from behind.

You were already informed that you can make the troops stand closer together.  Why not try that out instead of venting your spleen about something that is easily remedied?

To your second point, if the opposing shieldwall is wider than your own, they will be able to outflank and back-bugger your troops.  As to having them get through your shieldwall, the only remedy for that is to have tougher troops!

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

Good luck getting those tougher troops with how long it takes to both initially get and level up your own.

 

[Redleg]

Good luck getting those tougher troops with how long it takes to both initially get and level up your own.

Good point.  I wouldn't advocate cheating in a historical simulation game, but some might do it to level up their troops more quickly.

 

[Dan11311]

Just throwing this out there. Forming ranks and ordering close formation seems to work better when attacking on the move. Like, ordering your infantry formation to attack theirs. Using a closely formed shieldwall formation tends to work better when stationary in my experience.

As for soldiers running through your lines and hacking away to gaps in a line. It isn't supported by evidence. As evidenced by how the Romans fought.

 

[Redleg]

Just throwing this out there. Forming ranks and ordering close formation seems to work better when attacking on the move. Like, ordering your infantry formation to attack theirs. Using a closely formed shieldwall formation tends to work better when stationary in my experience.

As for soldiers running through your lines and hacking away to gaps in a line. It isn't supported by evidence. As evidenced by how the Romans fought.

Interesting observation about ranks and shieldwalls.  I will have to check it out to see the difference.  I have noticed in a PBOD mod I have that sometimes when attacking in ranks, my troops will move through the enemy's formation and leave a handful of guys to their rear, which I will have to mop up personally or with my cavalry or archers.  In standard mods using PBOD, the ranks formation seems to put the best troops up front.  Shieldwall formation seems to put the spearmen in the back and the one-handed weapons up front, regardless of whether they are good quality troops or not.  I get a lot of lower-level guys killed that way using shieldwall.

 

[Richard of longbottom]

Good luck getting those tougher troops with how long it takes to both initially get and level up your own.

improve your relation with villages and they will start to give you better troops

 

[SmattlePattle]

Tell them to stand closer? Of all the real issues with the DLC this complaint is just dumb. You can set your troops density/sparsity yourself.

 

[lolwarrior]

I myself am highly disappointed that the formations were not changed from PBOD. We all play warband for the battles and barely and new features for battle formations were added.