Why Is This Forum Section So Toxic?

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AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Check the steam stats. Load the game up and see how many people are on the server list, then compare that to Warband. Either of these things will immediately show you that the majority of people do not like Bannerlord.
I know you are just referring to MP - and perhaps MP is all you care about. But one could use this as anecdotal evidence to suggest people prefer Bannerlord SP to Warband SP.

Afterall the steam stats show the following;

VW9Ogni.png


Despite the fact...

  1. Warband is much much cheaper.
  2. Warband is easier to run.
  3. Warband is finished.
  4. Warband has 10+ years of amazing mods to choose and play from.
Going from the numbers alone I could say - yep 100% proof bannerlord SP is better. I'm sure many here would disagree with that - but that is what you are suggesting. I don't disagree with your point per say... but I think you are over-simplifying it massively.

Afterall how many of those Warband MP players are playing native and not one of the many amazing MP mods we have or brilliant MP DLC's...? 1000's of People play Bannerlord online (which aren't counted in the servers); do they count? If they don't why do people playing persistent world and cRPG do?
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I know you are just referring to MP - and perhaps MP is all you care about. But one could use this as anecdotal evidence to suggest people prefer Bannerlord SP to Warband SP. Don't care, this is the MP forum

Afterall the steam stats show the following;

VW9Ogni.png


Despite the fact...

  1. Warband is much much cheaper.
  2. Warband is easier to run.
  3. Warband is finished.
  4. Warband has 10+ years of amazing mods to choose and play from. Yeah, but Warband is also 10 years old which means people either have played it already or they rather buy Bannerlord since its new.
Going from the numbers alone I could say - yep 100% proof bannerlord SP is better. I'm sure many here would disagree with that - but that is what you are suggesting. I don't disagree with your point per say... but I think you are over-simplifying it massively.

Afterall how many of those Warband MP players are playing native and not one of the many amazing MP mods we have or brilliant MP DLC's...? 1000's of People play Bannerlord online (which aren't counted in the servers); do they count? If they don't why do people playing persistent world and cRPG do? I personally honestly wouldn't classify BL:O as Multiplayer but rather as CO-OP (or if you want to get technical, its a SP mod). It's not comparable to any Warband mod I know of, perhaps except cRPGs Strategus (which has been dead for years, and never reached such numbers due to it being a) part of another mod and b) mostly a browser game).
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
@Namakan If this is just MP - then it is just MP fair enough. I agree - Bannerlord MP is direly in need of updates. I mean we still don't have freaking Generals mode - the MOST hotly requested update to Bannerlord MP!

But I have/will see these same people in the SP sections with just as bitter feedback. If More Players = Better Game in all ways is true then that makes many discussions a lot easier. :xf-wink:
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
I know you are just referring to MP - and perhaps MP is all you care about. But one could use this as anecdotal evidence to suggest people prefer Bannerlord SP to Warband SP.

Afterall the steam stats show the following;

VW9Ogni.png


Despite the fact...

  1. Warband is much much cheaper.
  2. Warband is easier to run.
  3. Warband is finished.
  4. Warband has 10+ years of amazing mods to choose and play from.
Going from the numbers alone I could say - yep 100% proof bannerlord SP is better. I'm sure many here would disagree with that - but that is what you are suggesting. I don't disagree with your point per say... but I think you are over-simplifying it massively.

Afterall how many of those Warband MP players are playing native and not one of the many amazing MP mods we have or brilliant MP DLC's...? 1000's of People play Bannerlord online (which aren't counted in the servers); do they count? If they don't why do people playing persistent world and cRPG do?

I was presenting the most obvious evidence. There should not even be a comparison; Bannerlord, a new game, should be destroying Warband, an 11 year old game with 15 year old graphics, in playercount numbers. Yet, although the overall steam stats favour Bannerlord because of SP, if you check the MP numbers Warband has double the numbers of Bannerlord. Mods are not an excuse, because Bannerlord should have mod support too - for SP and MP. The fact that it doesn't is another point against TW, not a point against what I was saying. My point in telling him to look at the steam stats is for him to see that there are self-evidently many more people than those on this forum that have, or had, a negative view of Bannerlord (and stopped playing).

Bannerlord Online was a massive effort on behalf of the Russians who made it, and I had a lot of fun playing it myself, but it's a completely different gameplay experience to anything in Warband or Bannerlord. A "co-op campaign" mod, although BO is more like an MMO, would have had thousands of concurrent players in Warband too - it just wasn't possible to make it. It's something the community has wanted since the inception of the franchise, so I don't think it's comparable to mods like PW/PK which provide a scuffed simulation of a persistent MP world.

There is no question that if Bannerlord's MP had the same number of features as Warband's MP, even with no mods, it would have killed Warband's MP and would have thousands more players right now.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I was presenting the most obvious evidence. There should not even be a comparison; Bannerlord, a new game, should be destroying Warband, an 11 year old game with 15 year old graphics, in playercount numbers. Yet, although the overall steam stats favour Bannerlord because of SP, if you check the MP numbers Warband has double the numbers of Bannerlord. Mods are not an excuse, because Bannerlord should have mod support too - for SP and MP. The fact that it doesn't is another point against TW, not a point against what I was saying. My point in telling him to look at the steam stats is for him to see that there are self-evidently many more people than those on this forum that have, or had, a negative view of Bannerlord (and stopped playing).

Bannerlord Online was a massive effort on behalf of the Russians who made it, and I had a lot of fun playing it myself, but it's a completely different gameplay experience to anything in Warband or Bannerlord. A "co-op campaign" mod, although BO is more like an MMO, would have had thousands of concurrent players in Warband too - it just wasn't possible to make it. It's something the community has wanted since the inception of the franchise, so I don't think it's comparable to mods like PW/PK which provide a scuffed simulation of a persistent MP world.

There is no question that if Bannerlord's MP had the same number of features as Warband's MP, even with no mods, it would have killed Warband's MP and would have thousands more players right now.
Fair enough - that is true and completely valid. I don't disagree with any of your points there.

Though I wonder how these numbers will change when we do get proper mod / custom servers.
 

WMorton

Sergeant
WBWF&SNW
Fair enough - that is true and completely valid. I don't disagree with any of your points there.

Though I wonder how these numbers will change when we do get proper mod / custom servers.
Many of the modding teams are ready to pick up and run with what we have done so far. But we need Taleworlds to release custom servers so we can do proper testing instead of a single dev testing everything in their glitchy, crashing Modding Tools. I believe once custom servers are finally released then the MP community can have a renaissance, but its all completely up to TW and its likely we won't see if until at the minimum the end of the year. Also wouldn't surprise me if in the next few months TW does a full release with or without a proper MP.
 

Corsair831

Sergeant
WF&S
Regarding people who are passionate about the game, look at the age of my forum account, i pre-ordered Warband and played it to death in multiplayer (2400hrs native + ~~5000hrs cRPG), i'm about as passionate as can be for Bannerlord, but i think one thing people really need to understand is that they'd be much much happier if they just don't play the game whilst it's a broken buggy mess and just wait a couple of years until full release (which is exactly what i'm doing).

If the fanbase on the forum are so passionate of course the game's lack of progress we're used to from AAA studios is going to really get to them; might a lot of the people here benefit personally from a self imposed time-out in order to make both themselves happier and this forum into a more positive place?

Regarding Bannerlord's playercount being low, of course it's low, it's a buggy broken mess at the moment so people obviously aren't going to flock to that. When it's fixed and ready for full release, people will return. People don't enjoy playing buggy Early Access beta's, which is why most of my old Warband friends who absolutely played Warband to death and are superfans aren't playing; they know the game's not ready, and they'll come when it's ready. Maybe i'm just older than you guys and have seen this all happen before, i don't know
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
might a lot of the people here benefit personally from a self imposed time-out in order to make both themselves happier and this forum into a more positive place?
Let's make this multiplayer section positive when the game is anything except that and they don't listen. Good idea man.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Let's make this multiplayer section positive when the game is anything except that and they don't listen. Good idea man.
I mean it would be nice if we could stop screaming, swearing and shouting at one another.

Can carry on critiquing the game - just would be a nicer place to be.

Not you though directly Younes - we may disagree but you are always civil. Can't fault you.
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I mean it would be nice if we could stop screaming, swearing and shouting at one another.
You say this, and yet, you seem to be the guy going around forums and arguing with people wherever possible. You mask it behind using nice words, sarcasm, no insults and all that, but you're the guy I see starting and picking fights with other people the most. It feels like you jump to prove and argue any tiny point to no end as long as you feel you're right and the other person isn't. I really noticed when you quit the forums a while back, as there was much less argumentative dribble on every single thread. :xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile:
 

Ser Jon

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Regarding people who are passionate about the game, look at the age of my forum account, i pre-ordered Warband and played it to death in multiplayer (2400hrs native + ~~5000hrs cRPG), i'm about as passionate as can be for Bannerlord, but i think one thing people really need to understand is that they'd be much much happier if they just don't play the game whilst it's a broken buggy mess and just wait a couple of years until full release (which is exactly what i'm doing).

If the fanbase on the forum are so passionate of course the game's lack of progress we're used to from AAA studios is going to really get to them; might a lot of the people here benefit personally from a self imposed time-out in order to make both themselves happier and this forum into a more positive place?

Regarding Bannerlord's playercount being low, of course it's low, it's a buggy broken mess at the moment so people obviously aren't going to flock to that. When it's fixed and ready for full release, people will return. People don't enjoy playing buggy Early Access beta's, which is why most of my old Warband friends who absolutely played Warband to death and are superfans aren't playing; they know the game's not ready, and they'll come when it's ready. Maybe i'm just older than you guys and have seen this all happen before, i don't know

That's a good point, but what is the point of early access if we cannot voice the problems of the game in an attempt to steer the quality of the game? I cannot imagine what Bannerlord will turn out to be if no one "complained" over what is wrong with it. The end product would be a product a large group of people certainly would not be happy with.

I think it is valid, what they are doing, but I also think it is valid to communicate your issues with the game in a correct manner.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
You say this, and yet, you seem to be the guy going around forums and arguing with people wherever possible. You mask it behind using nice words, sarcasm, no insults and all that, but you're the guy I see starting and picking fights with other people the most. It feels like you jump to prove and argue any tiny point to no end as long as you feel you're right and the other person isn't. I really noticed when you quit the forums a while back, as there was much less argumentative dribble on every single thread. :xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile::xf-smile:
What is a forum if not for debate?

PORl0Fo.png


If we all agreed - why have a forum? :xf-wink:
 

chowski

Banned
I've just sat and read the Multiplayer Forum section and Jesus Christ guys chill out and stop being so horrible.

Game's not even released yet. Stop insulting the devs. They're making progress (I didn't play for ~~a year and the game's vastly improved). If the game's lack of immediate progress is stressing you out so much, go play something else until it's done. Harrassing and insulting the devs constantly helps nobody, and just alienates the community from the developers. Moreover some of us would like to read the Multiplayer Forum and enjoy what we read, not see endless whining about developer progress and trolling.

I know you're excited for the game to be finished, but guys, chill.

----------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION TO INITIAL QUESTION - Early Access as a concept is bad/confusing. It's a marketing term for a beta which you have paid for. The developers should not have used it here and it has given many the impression that this is a full release when it is clearly not. Players should treat Bannerlord as they would treat a beta, and wait for full release if they are not happy beta testing an incomplete game (I personally do not enjoy beta testing).
failworlds employee schill
 

Poddicus

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Complaining about toxic forum users through making a toxic thread designed to bait those same users

OP has achieved Chim
 

Corsair831

Sergeant
WF&S
That's a good point, but what is the point of early access if we cannot voice the problems of the game in an attempt to steer the quality of the game? I cannot imagine what Bannerlord will turn out to be if no one "complained" over what is wrong with it. The end product would be a product a large group of people certainly would not be happy with.

I think it is valid, what they are doing, but I also think it is valid to communicate your issues with the game in a correct manner.
I agree, it's definitely a great part of development to have community feedback, it's just that there's a polite way to do it and an impolite way, and it seems that this forum started in a polite way, then when they didn't get what they wanted they began screaming like babies and being horrible to the devs, and now the forum community have ironically got themselves into a situation where the devs more than likely hate them and are therefore more likely to ignore the community feedback from the forum
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
I agree, it's definitely a great part of development to have community feedback, it's just that there's a polite way to do it and an impolite way, and it seems that this forum started in a polite way, then when they didn't get what they wanted they began screaming like babies and being horrible to the devs, and now the forum community have ironically got themselves into a situation where the devs more than likely hate them and are therefore more likely to ignore the community feedback from the forum
Complaining about toxic forum users through making a toxic thread designed to bait those same users

OP has achieved Chim
I feel you are right, he has achieved full troll potential.
 
Well Jesus was toxic and kept flipping people's tables to tell them they are wrong.
Here we have Corsair saying game critics are "screaming babies" that scared the devs away. Definitely not toxic and wrong at the same time.
 
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