Why Is This Forum Section So Toxic?

[JAOOGA]

Thing is, they added stuff that most of the community did not want in any shape or form. We have been saying this for the past years during the beta test. Like the custom made classes, how the combat is clanky. MP is practically dead, how are going to be able to revive that when the early release had like 200k players (?)

I have seen many games that I backed, had a terrible release (at the cost of many players), but right at the very end when they made a complete 180 no one is playing the game (barely like 60 people as oppose to 6k in the early stages)

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I have seen many games that I backed, had a terrible release (at the cost of many players), but right at the very end when they made a complete 180 no one is playing the game (barely like 60 people as oppose to 6k in the early stages)

This is also why i find ridiculous the idea that a "final" release after early access will fix the game. There are so few real examples of games getting substantially more players after the first time they go on sale, especially something this big.

 

[Mabons]

This is also why i find ridiculous the idea that a "final" release after early access will fix the game. There are so few real examples of games getting substantially more players after the first time they go on sale, especially something this big.

I think we all hope it will happen, but considering they are "firmly" on track to releasing at the end of the current year, I'm quite deflated about the whole thing.

It was something magic seeing M&B having thousands of people online in the first week of Early Access, I didn't recognize any players from beta for a good few days because there was so many new faces. I would like that feeling again. Not gonna happen if the current pace of development is anything to go by.

 

[JAOOGA]

This is also why i find ridiculous the idea that a "final" release after early access will fix the game. There are so few real examples of games getting substantially more players after the first time they go on sale, especially something this big.

That is correct, especially when the release amounted to 240k players. Thats an insane amount of numbers. Even if 5% of the players were playing MP, thats like 12k players.

 

[Corsair831]

I never really doubted @Younes, but it truly is incredible how far your delusion is.

"The thing is", people have also paid for something which literally says "it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect."

The fact that you needed to split that quote I provided to justify your point while ignoring the other half which most of us are more frustrated about is... almost impressive. If we use an analogy: If you order two items from a food chain store and only receive one of them, your logic implies "the thing is you got one of your orders so why are you complaining about its content" despite the person clearly being more upset about the fact that half his order is missing. It is the same with you.


What new generation of players might I ask? Are you implying that for whoever did not have a forum account prior to the release of WB weren't M&B fans or haven't spent thousands of hours on the game regardless? It is the same for BL, I'm sure many people who have played WB and enjoy BL don't exist or created an account for the forums, and more power to them. You clearly have a notion that people don't want BL to succeed, which is incredibly stupid because all this conversing is happening over their OFFICIAL forum which was advertised many times throughout TW posts/media. However, as your OP post suggests, you believe that next to every thread criticizing TW simply stem from a "new generation", acting like most of the people new to the series aren't also the main defenders of the game.

I don't for a second believe you guys don't care about the game, i'm saying that the way you're going about it, making this forum section toxic, is counterproductive. Everyone here says that they were lovely and polite for the first few months, and i'd prefer if people would act that way again rather than the crybaby responses i see everywhere. I get that the devs weren't responsive, but maybe it's better to just take that in stride and accept that they're not very responsive devs, but they're still working on the project (albeit without much communication).

Also, how dare someone call me a boomer, i'm 30!

@Someone else, as i've already said Early Access as a concept is terrible (gives the consumer a very bad first impression of the game) and the devs shouldn't have used it here, and it will probably hurt the long term player count because first impressions are very important, and many people's first impression was of something broken AF

 

[KSHMR]

I don't for a second believe you guys don't care about the game, i'm saying that the way you're going about it, making this forum section toxic, is counterproductive. Everyone here says that they were lovely and polite for the first few months, and i'd prefer if people would act that way again rather than the crybaby responses i see everywhere. I get that the devs weren't responsive, but maybe it's better to just take that in stride and accept that they're not very responsive devs, but they're still working on the project (albeit without much communication).

Also, how dare someone call me a boomer, i'm 30!

@Someone else, as i've already said Early Access as a concept is terrible (gives the consumer a very bad first impression of the game) and the devs shouldn't have used it here, and it will probably hurt the long term player count because first impressions are very important, and many people's first impression was of something broken AF

You mean your physical age is 30?

 

[JAOOGA]

I don't for a second believe you guys don't care about the game, i'm saying that the way you're going about it, making this forum section toxic, is counterproductive. Everyone here says that they were lovely and polite for the first few months, and i'd prefer if people would act that way again rather than the crybaby responses i see everywhere. I get that the devs weren't responsive, but maybe it's better to just take that in stride and accept that they're not very responsive devs, but they're still working on the project (albeit without much communication).

I get your point, I really do. But this game has been in development for ~8 years now, some people are really not happy with the progress of the game development, especially after voicing their own concern about the gameplay during beta and until now nothing has been done to fix it. Basically I feel like in a sense that taleworlds is diverging from what we exactly are looking for.

 

[Younes]

I don't for a second believe you guys don't care about the game, i'm saying that the way you're going about it, making this forum section toxic, is counterproductive. Everyone here says that they were lovely and polite for the first few months, and i'd prefer if people would act that way again rather than the crybaby responses i see everywhere. I get that the devs weren't responsive, but maybe it's better to just take that in stride and accept that they're not very responsive devs, but they're still working on the project (albeit without much communication).

Basically you're proposing to make this forum completely dead, because ALL of the threads that are currently active are about issues and are "toxic" to your standards.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It was something magic seeing M&B having thousands of people online in the first week of Early Access, I didn't recognize any players from beta for a good few days because there was so many new faces. I would like that feeling again. Not gonna happen if the current pace of development is anything to go by.

But even in some magical scenario where they implement all the changes the multiplayer tryhards have suggested, why would even a fraction of a fraction of those 200k people come back at all, let alone all at once?

A good case study I can think of for something like this is No Mans Sky. In Jan 2020 after a few major updates, a popular youtuber peddled the idea that the game was completely fixed now, and his video basically flipped public opinion overnight. If you ask any rando about NMS they will say "oh it's fixed now" or "it was a redemption story" despite never having played it or even looked at the mechanics or anything. But what really makes it silly is that the steam stats show that the video made almost zero impact on player counts. His video got 14,000,000 views, but even by the most generous estimates only 7,000 of the viewers actually went back to the game before almost instantly dropping it.

https://steamcharts.com/app/275850#All

Even if Resonant somehow stops being an unwatchable clickbaiter and makes a video of that caliber when the game "releases", most people who havent played since the first release will just log in, check out the new (if any) mechanics, and then uninstall. If they weren't playing for an entire year then nothing besides a completely new game will draw them in again.

 

[KSHMR]

But even in some magical scenario where they implement all the changes the multiplayer tryhards have suggested, why would even a fraction of a fraction of those 200k people come back at all, let alone all at once?

A good case study I can think of for something like this is No Mans Sky. In Jan 2020 after a few major updates, a popular youtuber peddled the idea that the game was completely fixed now, and his video basically flipped public opinion overnight. If you ask any rando about NMS they will say "oh it's fixed now" or "it was a redemption story" despite never having played it or even looked at the mechanics or anything. But what really makes it silly is that the steam stats show that the video made almost zero impact on player counts. His video got 14,000,000 views, but even by the most generous estimates only 7,000 of the viewers actually went back to the game before almost instantly dropping it.

https://steamcharts.com/app/275850#All

Even if Resonant somehow stops being an unwatchable clickbaiter and makes a video of that caliber when the game "releases", most people who havent played since the first release will just log in, check out the new (if any) mechanics, and then uninstall. If they weren't playing for an entire year then nothing besides a completely new game will draw them in again.

Interesting post. So the hypothesis of a research would be: ''Players do not get back easily into a game they have dropped due to repeated disappointments'' or something similar.

It makes a lot of sense to me personally since I consider myself a huge fan of this series. Warband is my most played game on steam and I want(ed) Bannerlord to exceed that. The thing is I had been very patient with the developers in my opinion untill I finally decided to drop the game. This kind of disappointment is not easily corrected.. I am not sure if I will even get back into the game because I am about to graduate and start working but thats another story. Anyways, if that hypothesis could be accepted then this is very bad news for Bannerlord as a whole, its developers and the community.

 

[Mr_Shestak]

I think the community too toxic, if I would be the dev, I wouldn't want to respond anywhere in this forum as well. and I love bannerlord!

^ This, exactly this is an example of a poop-eater

 

[jon01]

In the first few minutes -which is the portion of the video I've watched thus far- the lead designer talks about a removed feature which he personally liked, namely the ability to command one's horse to kick by pressing E, similar to how it is done by the player character on foot. He also mentions the relative inexperience of the developers and the relative indefiniteness of how their priorities are set with respect to the likes of Ubisoft and so on. I may watch it in its entirety and translate it, later.

This is the best I can make out from the interview in some parts about MP using Auto-Translate:

1:06:02
- Our guests have something to say about this class system.
So, I'm going to have a bit of a heated argument. In a forum environment, questions and answers are a bit difficult.

1:06:20
- According to Hani, I think it is exaggerated. I mean the result, what is it? Come on ... I'm not a person who has played, very clearly ... for a little while I played, but as far as I know there ... are sets of accusations. Get used to the item sets ... Two swords you are going to a cafe ... so what makes it special in official matches anyway ... such a fantasy. I choose things with forgiveness or everybody chooses something.
Actually, let me do the same thing and give an example ... Like five swords put the variant and have only two points different between them. Vo5 Sword 3 Sword. He went there, I have 6, and we are sorry. There are six in the sword polyclinic. There's no point in just putting one in. What we're doing right now, sword shield ... profile make option and toys. He chooses what he wants, or he is especially bigger, than we put an ax, I think it would be nonsense. I think so, frankly ... I know that cheese is worth it until that system. You know, the current state of things has made our job as easy as that. It doesn't hurt that much, in fact, there is balancing 130 of stuff.

1:07:46
So I am not sure if making our job easier. I can guarantee the acceleration ... designing those classes for us, must be treasure. Even though they are inside and not play each other's role, etc. The team, do whatever you want. It's a time-consuming and a painful thing. How to make more stable over the long term? I also think it will make it more balanced right now. But some we need to make them more effective. But other than that, I am right now ... I already give on his performance on his face. You know, one of the elections was not played. I think there is a truth. It's forbidden or something. It is necessary to have an argument that may be informal on both sides. It would be good, yes.

1:31:23
- Do you have anything to say to the community?
In general, people like that is negative. So, frankly, don't be surprised ... Something from me is behind our ear anyway. Do not disturb such a year that people care and respect. So don't worry, don't hesitate, get something negative. Get criticism. What about them? We can say if they are talking empty ... He comments us, but we'll take a positive look at them. We take it into consideration, we evaluate it. The bus is much more meaningful than silence. The process is for grape, so don't hesitate, tell me, write, no problem.

 

[Wulfric]

This is the best I can make out from the interview in some parts about MP using Auto-Translate:

English to Turkish or vice versa or any auto-translation involving the Turkish language is probably not much more than a waste of time which seems evident by what you posted.

1:06:02
- Our guests have something to say about this class system.
So, I'm going to have a bit of a heated argument. In a forum environment, questions and answers are a bit difficult.

He's saying that such a discussion on the class system is better done in a forum environment where the two sides (these most likely being those who oppose and those who support it) can express their views instead of him answering the question on his own.

1:06:20
- According to Hani, I think it is exaggerated. I mean the result, what is it? Come on ... I'm not a person who has played, very clearly ... for a little while I played, but as far as I know there ... are sets of accusations. Get used to the item sets ... Two swords you are going to a cafe ... so what makes it special in official matches anyway ... such a fantasy. I choose things with forgiveness or everybody chooses something.
Actually, let me do the same thing and give an example ... Like five swords put the variant and have only two points different between them. Vo5 Sword 3 Sword. He went there, I have 6, and we are sorry. There are six in the sword polyclinic. There's no point in just putting one in. What we're doing right now, sword shield ... profile make option and toys. He chooses what he wants, or he is especially bigger, than we put an ax, I think it would be nonsense. I think so, frankly ... I know that cheese is worth it until that system. You know, the current state of things has made our job as easy as that. It doesn't hurt that much, in fact, there is balancing 130 of stuff.

1:07:46
So I am not sure if making our job easier. I can guarantee the acceleration ... designing those classes for us, must be treasure. Even though they are inside and not play each other's role, etc. The team, do whatever you want. It's a time-consuming and a painful thing. How to make more stable over the long term? I also think it will make it more balanced right now. But some we need to make them more effective. But other than that, I am right now ... I already give on his performance on his face. You know, one of the elections was not played. I think there is a truth. It's forbidden or something. It is necessary to have an argument that may be informal on both sides. It would be good, yes.

The moderator points out the claim that even with the opportunities Warband provides the player with in regards to equipment customization, there are only so many different combinations of items people use which results in the class system not being any different practically. M. Arda continues in support of this, saying that in the case of there, for instance, being five different choices for a sword with them differing from one another by a damage difference of 2 and only two of these swords being the popular choices results in rendering the remaining three useless (He's basically trying to say that there is no point in having multiple variants of an item that are nearly identical to each other). He calls balancing Warband's system a "pain in the ass" and the current one easier and faster to develop which is immediately contradicted by Gökçen who points out that balancing the class system is far more time consuming to balance and refine. Gökçen continues saying that in the long run the class system will be more beneficial in regards to balance and that even currently, it is more balanced and the only imbalance there exists is that certain factions are used more often. He touches upon the fact that in Warband, there exists a faction that is banned from playing as (I guess, referring to the Khergits) while pointing that such discussions are better done bilaterally, as in involving those who disagree as well.

1:31:23
- Do you have anything to say to the community?
In general, people like that is negative. So, frankly, don't be surprised ... Something from me is behind our ear anyway. Do not disturb such a year that people care and respect. So don't worry, don't hesitate, get something negative. Get criticism. What about them? We can say if they are talking empty ... He comments us, but we'll take a positive look at them. We take it into consideration, we evaluate it. The bus is much more meaningful than silence. The process is for grape, so don't hesitate, tell me, write, no problem.

Here, Gökçen mentions that the community shouldn't ever hesitate to voice their criticisms, the presence of which is viewed in a positive light by them and that it is more meaningful than just silence.

 

[Spottswoode]

We just have so many dickheads and really low quality trolls in these forums as if the devs would even bother.

 

[jon01]

English to Turkish or vice versa or any auto-translation involving the Turkish language is probably not much more than a waste of time which seems evident by what you posted.

I understand that, yet all of what you wrote is completely what I thought they were saying.

The point MArda makes about the class system is a strawman argument. No one is demanding TW to include five almost-identical swords again (if that even is the case, I remember some tournament duelists opting to choose the short swords for Swadia). Make the choices more meaningful, or even include fewer choices in the same system, if it's really so problematic, but it's no justification for all of what Bannerlord's class system entails.

Some of the points I could make were already posted in a Statement thread last year ...

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/statement-regarding-plans-for-mp-vol-3.428491/page-9#post-9504495

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/statement-regarding-plans-for-mp-vol-3.428491/page-10#post-9504530

The argument that it makes their job easier in balancing the game is also strange, considering they said in the past that they didn't intend to split it across the game modes, which is what I'm guessing the other guy was getting onto. I don't know if they've already started separating the balancing, or how much it will be separated once it begins, but it's a massive problem that's probably going to continue causing problems and disatisfaction no matter what.

A big reason why Khergits were banned in Warband is because many players hated going up against Horse Archers. Yet look at what TW have done again ...



Otherwise, it's nice to hear those words from Gökçen. Corsair would do well to listen to his advice.

 

[Mabons]

He touches upon the fact that in Warband, there exists a faction that is banned from playing as (I guess, referring to the Khergits)

Just gonna point out, in case any dev reads this, Warband NEVER had to be played with class limits. Almost all tournaments in Bannerlord play with some form of limit in place and literally no one wants to drop it.

Khergits, as jon says, were banned because of horse archers. They are just a completely unfun thing to play against, they make playing infantry a complete waste of time and that's what the majority of players play M&B for, the gritty melee combat. I'm sure if they were as useless as the ones in Bannerlord right now then they would be allowed to use but seeing as half their power is in their horse archers you would have to overbuff other parts to make it fair, like what we have now with the Spear Infantry one shotting other inf with their mace.

 

[Einarcf]

literally no one wants to drop it.

Well.. Some want to see the world burn.

 

[Nodice83]

To the point of many above that forum is sooo toxic and because of that TW stopped listening. This clearly the most childish and shortsightened argument i ever heard about.

Mature, confident and trustworthy companies would not promise things they would later skip in development. Ignoring the community's inputs its purely a sign of disrespect and lossing interest. You just cannot feel ofended when your child misbehave and as a parent you try to show that being adult is something superior. You remain calm and do your thing. You never punish or neglect. Those "toxic Kids" is the best what TW could ever get. They are doomed the very day noone cares.

Something really major must happen inside the TW if they want to stay in the business.

 

[Younes]

He's saying that such a discussion on the class system is better done in a forum environment where the two sides (these most likely being those who oppose and those who support it) can express their views instead of him answering the question on his own.

LMAO THIS IS THE FUNNIEST ****.

Callum literally ended up saying "deal with it". The point of discussing a class system or pointing out it flaws would be to remake or improve it, not just completely ignore each single suggestion to it.

But that's far too advanced for them.

 

[KSHMR]

To the point of many above that forum is sooo toxic and because of that TW stopped listening. This clearly the most childish and shortsightened argument i ever heard about.

Mature, confident and trustworthy companies would not promise things they would later skip in development. Ignoring the community's inputs its purely a sign of disrespect and lossing interest. You just cannot feel ofended when your child misbehave and as a parent you try to show that being adult is something superior. You remain calm and do your thing. You never punish or neglect. Those "toxic Kids" is the best what TW could ever get. They are doomed the very day noone cares.

Something really major must happen inside the TW if they want to stay in the business.

Did TaleWorlds really stop listening as a result of toxicity, or is it the other way around? Did the community become toxic because TaleWorlds doesn't listen.