WHY is the class system staying?

Younes123

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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Those are Veteran players. You don't get a new player's perspective on the whole matter. And my personal experience is overall positive. Since the launch of Bannerlord I had around 30-50 new members join my clan and none of them complain about the class system. My old members don't complain about it either. So my view on the whole matter, as well as my clan's view (about 150-200 people) is that the class system part of the game and we don't have a problem with it at all.

Also, I'd like to you see quote the part of my first argument which was ad hominem. Friendly reminder. An ad hominem argument is mainly something like "You have property x, so everything you say is naught". Did I do that? Nope. The "entitled" part was the argument.

Perfect examples of ad hominem can be found on this page as well (the weeb trying to front me with weeb humour)
Saying that the his first point (the question why dumbing down a game would be good in the first place) is not to be considered, due to the fact that he's a weeb, would be ad hominem. That cleared things up for you?
Personal experienced != fact

Facts show people dislike the class system. You're using an argument that makes no sense at all. Im sure those 200 members of yours play the game each day since launch. Oh wait the MP has barely 200 people
 

DainMorgot

Regular
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Personal experienced != fact

Facts show people dislike the class system. You're using an argument that makes no sense at all. Im sure those 200 members of yours play the game each day since launch. Oh wait the MP has barely 200 people
They do not, i constantly see only 2-4 members of Hessian in the game and recently 2 of them were discussing with other players in the same game how bad the class system is. So not only he is lying about ''all my clan members dont mind the class system'', he also -definitely- lies about the 'new' people he got.
 

Younes123

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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They do not, i constantly see only 2-4 members of Hessian in the game and recently 2 of them were discussing with other players in the same game how bad the class system is. So not only he is lying about ''all my clan members dont mind the class system'', he also -definitely- lies about the 'new' people he got.
He is obviously lying. Talking out of his ass again
 

Koshkasa

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Do you MP veterans mind reinstating what exactly is wrong with classes? Having played a little bit of both Warband MP and Bannerlord MP, I can feel the systems are different, but not that one is inherently worse than the others.

It's more restrictive, sure. But whether you have 1 option to pick out of 2, or 1 option to pick out of 3.000.000, sooner or later everyone will gravitate to a state of maximum efficiency, picking that one most efficient option over all others, regardless of how many unpicked ones there are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that in truth players with 5k hours in Warband MP ended up picking roughly the same sets of stuff for specific playstyles they enjoyed, not making a random assortment of items for customization's sake.
 

KSHMR

Recruit
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It is entirely possible that a single person can master cavalry, archery and infantry skills. However, it wasn't very likely in medieval times. Most were trained as their classes specifically.

For an archer going into melee combat this is totally realistic.
For an archer who never practiced archery on horseback having the same archery on horseback, not so realistic.

These are just some examples. Now like I said everything was possible on an individual level, yet we are talking about general trends of realism.
 

KSHMR

Recruit
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Do you MP veterans mind reinstating what exactly is wrong with classes? Having played a little bit of both Warband MP and Bannerlord MP, I can feel the systems are different, but not that one is inherently worse than the others.

It's more restrictive, sure. But whether you have 1 option to pick out of 2, or 1 option to pick out of 3.000.000, sooner or later everyone will gravitate to a state of maximum efficiency, picking that one most efficient option over all others, regardless of how many unpicked ones there are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that in truth players with 5k hours in Warband MP ended up picking roughly the same sets of stuff for specific playstyles they enjoyed, not making a random assortment of items for customization's sake.
Totally right. I would typically choose the same gear in all situations because it was just the best gear. Now of course some small alterations would be made if it was deemed neccesary, but nothing big really.
 

Mabons

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I've had the pleasure of meeting one Hessian player ingame and it was TDM, he was one of those bottom feeders that scream EZ at the end of a game where he went 2-28 or some ****.

Do you MP veterans mind reinstating what exactly is wrong with classes? Having played a little bit of both Warband MP and Bannerlord MP, I can feel the systems are different, but not that one is inherently worse than the others.

It's more restrictive, sure. But whether you have 1 option to pick out of 2, or 1 option to pick out of 3.000.000, sooner or later everyone will gravitate to a state of maximum efficiency, picking that one most efficient option over all others, regardless of how many unpicked ones there are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that in truth players with 5k hours in Warband MP ended up picking roughly the same sets of stuff for specific playstyles they enjoyed, not making a random assortment of items for customization's sake.
Bannerlord:

I start with 300 gold. I pick Legionary for 140. Mace is too slow, armour makes me too slow, all I can take is lighter shield first perk. 2nd perk, I would love to take the axe as it's very good but I must take Pila or Spear to help me against cavalry. In fact it's almost neccesary to take Pila also lets me deal with the archers. Now I have a class with armour, shield, good weapons, and I can spawn twice as this until forever.

Warband:

I start with 1000 gold. I pick Swadian Infantry. I buy Gambeson, Helmet with Cap, Kite Shield, Awlpike, and keep my other default equipment. I have a bit of armour, a strong enough shield to withstand some archer fire, and a good support weapon in the Awlpike, with the default sword. If I survive this round, I can choose to upgrade ANY part of this, or even better, I can mold this to help me against the enemy. They spammed cavalry? I can take a long Awlpike next round to help me even more, they spammed archers? I can take a stronger shield. They are mostly infantry? 2 handed sword. They are a mixture? Lets just upgrade my armour then.

It's the sense of progress I miss. I get 5 kills without dying? I am now stronger next round for my efforts when it comes to Warband. I go 12 kills in 2 rounds without dying in Bannerlord and I haven't achieved anything.
 

DainMorgot

Regular
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Do you MP veterans mind reinstating what exactly is wrong with classes? Having played a little bit of both Warband MP and Bannerlord MP, I can feel the systems are different, but not that one is inherently worse than the others.

It's more restrictive, sure. But whether you have 1 option to pick out of 2, or 1 option to pick out of 3.000.000, sooner or later everyone will gravitate to a state of maximum efficiency, picking that one most efficient option over all others, regardless of how many unpicked ones there are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that in truth players with 5k hours in Warband MP ended up picking roughly the same sets of stuff for specific playstyles they enjoyed, not making a random assortment of items for customization's sake.

Classes are not only restrictive in gameplay but also restrictive in the whole personality of the game. Initially it's handholding and efficiency forcing and removes any fun from the game. Many of the classes are totally unviable and cannot be tailored to playstyles. The removal of specific-parts armor makes aiming irrelevant since the total armor is the whole body. This falls into combat category but is reinforced by classes. Bannerlord's design is very anti-casual, very pro-steamrolling, has no personality and makes everybody looking like a clone. Τhe ''there is always cookie cutter builds'' is debatable because warband's gearing system was free but did not have a huge variety of options. There are pro players who used short swords, which is rare and there were team setups that were going out of the usual way in tournaments aswell. Class system is anti-fun, it does not matter if it works or not or if it will ever work, it's plain anti-fun.


It is entirely possible that a single person can master cavalry, archery and infantry skills. However, it wasn't very likely in medieval times. Most were trained as their classes specifically.

For an archer going into melee combat this is totally realistic.
For an archer who never practiced archery on horseback having the same archery on horseback, not so realistic.

These are just some examples. Now like I said everything was possible on an individual level, yet we are talking about general trends of realism.
You clearly write out of reaction, because everything you stated is untrue. Nobody trained as 'classes' in medieval times, lmao. Nobles had a vast variety of training and common warriors/guards had training in all things aswell. People did not just spawn out of nowhere in those ages, soldiers were much more valuable. They trained in everything because the times demanded so. Also horse archery is common archery with the learn of balance on a mount. Please stop posting uneducated opinions.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Sidebar about the previous pages: it's fine to disagree with Tork, just as it's fine to disagree with anyone else, but stop mocking & baiting him by constantly calling him a shill. Argue the point, not the person.
 

Mabons

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Sidebar about the previous pages: it's fine to disagree with Tork, just as it's fine to disagree with anyone else, but stop mocking & baiting him by constantly calling him a shill. Argue the point, not the person.
Not that I disagree with what you're saying but at the same time, there is no point in arguing the point when he routinely ignores people's main points to pick at some ****e on the side. And seeing as it's shut him up cause I no longer see "ignored member" posts on this thread I would say the latter works :razz:

In any case I can recommend blocking Tork as it's greatly improved my forum reading!
 

Younes123

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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Do you MP veterans mind reinstating what exactly is wrong with classes? Having played a little bit of both Warband MP and Bannerlord MP, I can feel the systems are different, but not that one is inherently worse than the others.

It's more restrictive, sure. But whether you have 1 option to pick out of 2, or 1 option to pick out of 3.000.000, sooner or later everyone will gravitate to a state of maximum efficiency, picking that one most efficient option over all others, regardless of how many unpicked ones there are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that in truth players with 5k hours in Warband MP ended up picking roughly the same sets of stuff for specific playstyles they enjoyed, not making a random assortment of items for customization's sake.
The problem is that the classes are created and have two gamemodes specifically designed around it. Other gamemodes do not have this and it just doesn't work for them.

People didn't always take the same equipment. Not everyone is a tryhard. Just hop in a server of deathmatch in warband and see how much people you see with the "optimal" equipment.
 

KSHMR

Recruit
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Yes it is very nice that a common guard had training in ''other things'' as well, like you state in your message. However, I am quite certain that a cavalry rider would have more skill in riding than a guard who was trained to ride a horse too but never really does so because he has to stand guard all the time.

Again, everything you say is correct, but you are missing the point and not seeing the bigger picture.

People can be trained in other classes, but they will not be as strong in the other classes (OF COURSE INDIVIDUAL EXCEPTIONS ARE THERE, before you comment your same arguments again)
 

JakobvanBicke

Recruit
WBNW
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Personal experienced != fact

Facts show people dislike the class system. You're using an argument that makes no sense at all. Im sure those 200 members of yours play the game each day since launch. Oh wait the MP has barely 200 people
You activated my trap card.
I ask again. Where do you have these "facts" from? From a not representative group on the forum? Alright. I'll bring up my not representative group of players in my clan and you suddenly whine about how unrepresentative my personal experience is. See the irony?
Also, who's pulling numbers out of his arse now?


They do not, i constantly see only 2-4 members of Hessian in the game and recently 2 of them were discussing with other players in the same game how bad the class system is. So not only he is lying about ''all my clan members dont mind the class system'', he also -definitely- lies about the 'new' people he got.
Huh. Weird. I see about 30 of my guys play the game on a daily basis (myself included). But I guess it's a fact that only 2-4 of my guys play cause you only saw 2-4 of us. Maybe we're playing skirmish 6v6 against each other (which we do), so you don't even notice us. But that's fake news I guess.

He is obviously lying. Talking out of his ass again
Ye cause anytime someone brings something up that could contradict your point he has to be lying, right? Can't be that he legit has a point to make. Can't be that he legit had new people join his clan in a game that you deem bad.


I've had the pleasure of meeting one Hessian player ingame and it was TDM, he was one of those bottom feeders that scream EZ at the end of a game where he went 2-28 or some ****.
Ah yeah. Nice. I also saw you once having a bad score and whining about how unfit the class system is whilst getting your ass smacked.

I really don't feel like following this thread anymore since the only thing you guys do is saying others are bad at the game and therefore have no right to talk about how it should be. I'll leave you in your bubble. I'm having fun playing the game in MP and will keep on doing so.
 

Al_Mansur

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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I had favorite loadouts in Warband but didn't always choose them. Even if I did, I would have been frustrated if I couldn't change it. Even with my fav loadouts I liked slight variations from time to time, like a different helmet, etc.
There is nothing to back up this horrible restrictive premade class system outside of Captain mode.
 

Younes123

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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You activated my trap card.
I ask again. Where do you have these "facts" from? From a not representative group on the forum? Alright. I'll bring up my not representative group of players in my clan and you suddenly whine about how unrepresentative my personal experience is. See the irony?
Also, who's pulling numbers out of his arse now?
I showed the links earlier. The polls are 100% reliable. Unless you have something to show that shows people dislike it involving a poll, you are a minority who thinks the class system should be in all gamemodes.

THE POLLS ARE 100% REPRESENTATIVE.

You just don't want to face the truth and are acting like a child
 

Rangah

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Petition for TaleWorlds to set up an in-game voting booth akin to what OldSchool Runescape has to vote on pressing issues, since some people still think forum polls are meaningless
 

DainMorgot

Regular
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Forum polls can be meaningless, but there are over 10 polls since beta and all showcase the same results. The reddit thread is just the tip of the iceberg. Even casual pro SP players agree that classes are bad. Only thing remaining is to see a major overhaul to classes or scrap the system altogether.
 

Younes123

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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denying the facts man, love it
Yep its insane.


It's a fact, 100% that people dislike the system and they can't prove otherwise. They only scream "unrepresentative" because it doesn't fit what they want

Petition for TaleWorlds to set up an in-game voting booth akin to what OldSchool Runescape has to vote on pressing issues, since some people still think forum polls are meaningless
+++++

Forum polls can be meaningless, but there are over 10 polls since beta and all showcase the same results. The reddit thread is just the tip of the iceberg. Even casual pro SP players agree that classes are bad. Only thing remaining is to see a major overhaul to classes or scrap the system altogether.
They will keep denying facts