WHY is the class system staying?

[JakobvanBicke]

Its a FACT that the majority of players DISLIKE the class system and its a FACT that only a minority likes it.

That's a nice "fact" you got there. May I ask where you got that from?

Ah... you made it up? Cause there's no data you can base your claim on. All I see is about 100-200 people raging on the forum about how the class system is the worst thing to happen in the history of mankind. How many people are playing the game again? About 35k? Around 400-700+ people in MP at any given time (low estimate as I can't know how many siege / skirmish / captain matches there are running at the same time)
Seems like a group that's not the majority to me. How do you call that again? A yeah... a minority.

And why do you need like 1000 new threads about the same topic over and over again? It just makes people sick of the forums if 9/10 threads you see is "**** YOU TALEWORLDS WE WANT WARBAND BACK"

Stop being such entitled *****es. It's their game. Sure, you bought it, but you well knew what was awaiting you. Now whining on here and demanding change is quite dumb. I mean, just imagine someone signing up for a gym, they tell him that there are no barbells but only dumbbells. He still signs up. After some days he runs up to their counter and demands they buy barbells this second. You see how retarded that sounds? That's 100% what you're doing right now.
They like getting feedback from players for sure, and they surely already know that some people don't like the new system. So why don't they change it? They surely got a reason. Cause from their viewpoint they wanna make their players happy (cause happy players bring in more new people who buy the game). So if it's hated by "everyone", why don't they change it? Did you ever even try to figure that out or are you just sitting here complaining cause the game has a feature you dislike? I guess it's latter.

Only Tork likes it and he is still bad in the game. (No offense)

Poor joke. Cause the "(no offense)" part doesn't make it less retarded. It actually makes it more retarded. Cause your whole argument is ad hominem. Saying "not to attack you, but ..." and proceed to bring up an ad hominem argument. That's prolly the dumbest kind of argument I've seen on here so far (and I checked through quite a lot of pages).

Who the hell is the silent majority, like most new players aren’t staying very long, and the ones who do to me seem to be optimistic of things changing in the future. It’s not a very casual experience on tdm only playing peasant anyways

You're mostly right on the "new players aren't staying very long" part. Though you forget that there's multiple hundred thousands of new players. Those who stuck around until now are those who'll prolly stick around for longer. And I personally doubt that most of the Warband Veterans will stick around for too many years (in a competitive environment) as they're getting older. I doubt I'll be sitting here in 5-10 years. For the time being I surely will play and quite a lot at that, but when you got a job, family, and other rl stuff, gaming becomes less and less important. There's a reason why the usual gamer is around 18 years old.

But in the end I'm just wondering why I'm even wasting my time here. Most of you will prolly dismiss any points made by me in 1 or 2 sentences anyways, but hey. Good luck getting Taleworlds to change one of the core mechanics in the game

 

[Younes]

That's a nice "fact" you got there. May I ask where you got that from?

Ah... you made it up? Cause there's no data you can base your claim on. All I see is about 100-200 people raging on the forum about how the class system is the worst thing to happen in the history of mankind. How many people are playing the game again? About 35k? Around 400-700+ people in MP at any given time (low estimate as I can't know how many siege / skirmish / captain matches there are running at the same time)
Seems like a group that's not the majority to me. How do you call that again? A yeah... a minority.

And why do you need like 1000 new threads about the same topic over and over again? It just makes people sick of the forums if 9/10 threads you see is "**** YOU TALEWORLDS WE WANT WARBAND BACK"

Stop being such entitled *****es. It's their game. Sure, you bought it, but you well knew what was awaiting you. Now whining on here and demanding change is quite dumb. I mean, just imagine someone signing up for a gym, they tell him that there are no barbells but only dumbbells. He still signs up. After some days he runs up to their counter and demands they buy barbells this second. You see how retarded that sounds? That's 100% what you're doing right now.
They like getting feedback from players for sure, and they surely already know that some people don't like the new system. So why don't they change it? They surely got a reason. Cause from their viewpoint they wanna make their players happy (cause happy players bring in more new people who buy the game). So if it's hated by "everyone", why don't they change it? Did you ever even try to figure that out or are you just sitting here complaining cause the game has a feature you dislike? I guess it's latter.

r/mountandblade - [Official] Share your insight regarding M&BII: Bannerlord Multiplayer!

359 votes and 386 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/premade-classes-discussion.387018/

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/class-customization-system-bannerlord-vs-warband.422697/

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/poll-class-system-vs-warband-loadout-customization.408434/page-17

Talk about people talking out of their arse while your magically pooped those 400-700 players out of nowhere. Get real.

Difference between feeling entitled and most of us is you not understanding what made mount and blade multiplayer the way it is and how it stayed alive for 10 years.

You would know all of this if you participated in the beta and cared about the game but you don't care about the game and just come here spreading bullcrap that has been debunked ages ago.

 

[Byas]

I can't wait for a Persistent World in Bannerlord. Get to choose armor sets, weapons and horses with good ol' Farming and sieging. That is until Talesworld will actually release modding tools or even if the mod will be made.

Hell even in the game Last Oasis you can run around naked with a beat stick.

Why not have some gamemodes with class system while others have Choosing gear.

Battle mode for Native!

 

[Maroon]

Rant about how entitled everyone is.

Required reading before posting on this thread is quoted below. If you can wrap your head around that post, and can somehow still post the garbage you just posted, I don't envy your level of cognitive dissonance.

If we're going to make assumptions & sweeping generalizations about how people interact with each other online, here's more food for thought: the best way to get a correct answer on the internet isn't to ask your question, it's to post a wrong answer. If so many people are happy with the class system, why are they not coming to any platform to correct those who post examples & explanations of why they think it's bad? We have a handful here, such as Tork, who do exactly that, but they're the minority of people willing to discuss the issue.

The entire line of argument that feedback posted on the forum doesn't accurately reflect the opinions of the player base at large is self-defeating because the same argument can be used about any optional feedback source TW has, which are often used un-ironically as counterpoints to the feedback on this forum. The patch surveys in alpha/beta, reddit, even Steam reviews all disproportionately over-represent people who are willing to provide feedback in the first place. Response rates for internal online surveys of any kind are typically 40% or less, while external surveys usually top out at 15%, and I would assume that willingness to register to a platform & participate in long-form discussion or invest time into writing a meaningful review is much lower still. It's statistically likely that we have an unaccounted for majority that simply doesn't care enough to tell us how they feel about it either way, so all we can go on is the data we do have from the people who did bother to engage and respond. Of that, we don't have the patch survey results from beta and almost certainly never will. That leaves us with public platforms like this forum, reddit, and Steam, where reception of the class system can be gauged by the responses in discussions & polls about it.

To say, then, at this point in time, that general attitudes about the class system are positive--or neutral at worst--is preposterous. The data we have is all we're likely to get, so any hypothesis put forth which disagrees with the data (like those sweeping generalizations) renders the following conclusions nothing more than opinions (no disrespect to Faebio, I'm not calling anyone out here). Trying to dismiss the only data we have by saying it's not representative of the whole just begs the questions: what data do you have which supports any other conclusion, and what is your standard for an acceptable response rate? Arguing the validity of the data is always valid, but we also have to be realistic about our data collection standards. To use a number cited by Cochus, if 400 people vote on an online forum about this issue, that's way more than the number of people who took the time to post about it and therefore more representative of the whole. If that poll result happens to agree with what's being said by the majority of people who are engaging in discussion then it only reinforces the notion that the result is accurate.

 

[DainMorgot]

That's a nice "fact" you got there. May I ask where you got that from?

Ah... you made it up? Cause there's no data you can base your claim on. All I see is about 100-200 people raging on the forum about how the class system is the worst thing to happen in the history of mankind. How many people are playing the game again? About 35k? Around 400-700+ people in MP at any given time (low estimate as I can't know how many siege / skirmish / captain matches there are running at the same time)
Seems like a group that's not the majority to me. How do you call that again? A yeah... a minority.

And why do you need like 1000 new threads about the same topic over and over again? It just makes people sick of the forums if 9/10 threads you see is "**** YOU TALEWORLDS WE WANT WARBAND BACK"

Stop being such entitled *****es. It's their game. Sure, you bought it, but you well knew what was awaiting you. Now whining on here and demanding change is quite dumb. I mean, just imagine someone signing up for a gym, they tell him that there are no barbells but only dumbbells. He still signs up. After some days he runs up to their counter and demands they buy barbells this second. You see how retarded that sounds? That's 100% what you're doing right now.
They like getting feedback from players for sure, and they surely already know that some people don't like the new system. So why don't they change it? They surely got a reason. Cause from their viewpoint they wanna make their players happy (cause happy players bring in more new people who buy the game). So if it's hated by "everyone", why don't they change it? Did you ever even try to figure that out or are you just sitting here complaining cause the game has a feature you dislike? I guess it's latter.


Poor joke. Cause the "(no offense)" part doesn't make it less retarded. It actually makes it more retarded. Cause your whole argument is ad hominem. Saying "not to attack you, but ..." and proceed to bring up an ad hominem argument. That's prolly the dumbest kind of argument I've seen on here so far (and I checked through quite a lot of pages).


You're mostly right on the "new players aren't staying very long" part. Though you forget that there's multiple hundred thousands of new players. Those who stuck around until now are those who'll prolly stick around for longer. And I personally doubt that most of the Warband Veterans will stick around for too many years (in a competitive environment) as they're getting older. I doubt I'll be sitting here in 5-10 years. For the time being I surely will play and quite a lot at that, but when you got a job, family, and other rl stuff, gaming becomes less and less important. There's a reason why the usual gamer is around 18 years old.

But in the end I'm just wondering why I'm even wasting my time here. Most of you will prolly dismiss any points made by me in 1 or 2 sentences anyways, but hey. Good luck getting Taleworlds to change one of the core mechanics in the game

First of all, instead of calling us entitled assholes, come FT7.

Secondly, we care for TW. The game already has like 1k players only and it's bleeding everyday because of the 1) bad combat 2) class system 3) lack of content. Younes made nothing out of his mind, there is definitive proof that the majority dislikes the class system and now, the reddit thread which I remind, it's made by an official TW Developer shows the same results. The hundend of thousands players play single player and the game sold about 4 million copies. And multiplayer has less than 1K players. Which is pathetic. On the other hand, how many hours do you have in warband multiplayer? How good are you in bannerlord? Probably not even average. We will get what we want with mods, all we do is try to not alienate the fanbase. Native will die the moment a new MP mod will come out and there is no doubt about that.

And I personally doubt that most of the Warband Veterans will stick around for too many years (in a competitive environment) as they're getting older. I doubt I'll be sitting here in 5-10 years. For the time being I surely will play and quite a lot at that, but when you got a job, family, and other rl stuff, gaming becomes less and less important. There's a reason why the usual gamer is around 18 years old.

Good riddance then, let us who will actually play even with families stay here and you can go play fortnite, it's free. By the way your 18 years old comment is innacurate, most usual age range is from 18 to 35 nowdays with a heavy emphasis on the 23-30. Look who's making up statistics ahhahaha.

As said before, low game population does not lie. Next.



edit: this dude is a napoleonic wars fan, should expected this.

 

[Maroon]

I mean, just imagine someone signing up for a gym, they tell him that there are no barbells but only dumbbells. He still signs up. After some days he runs up to their counter and demands they buy barbells this second. You see how retarded that sounds? That's 100% what you're doing right now.

Kind of double posting here, but seriously, that's your analogy? Try changing it to "People sign up for a gym just starting out, which promises to get all the equipment needed to be a great gym, but they refuse to get any kind of torso equipment. Now 90% of the regular gym population is complaining about it and the gym can't formulate a coherent response.".
Trying to pick apart arguments by pointing out logical fallacies, and then using several giant false analogies like this one, come on. Speaking of which, nice try saying someone shouldn't use ad hominem arguments in the same post you call people entitled *****es.

 

[๖Kern]

Pack it up boys, all the feedback of ours is irrelevant. But, wouldn't that mean that all the feedback of theirs is also irrelevant?

 

[RCC_God]

I think what people don’t understand, is most people are waiting for mods at this point; once mods come mp will be revitalized, but not on the base game. The pop will be split between Pw, crpg, probably a mount and musket mod, mercenaries, bear force... the list goes on but you get the jist. If MP is dead right now just wait until the mods come and take the remaining players

 

[CesareBorgia]

The FACT here Younes is that you, among many others here, are far too blinded by your love for Warband. And it's normal and nobody holds that against you, especially not the devs. Just trust in TW.

I didn't play MP on warband, you don't have to be some warband veteran to dislike the current class system.

 

[FearSpear]

Stop being such entitled *****es. It's their game. Sure, you bought it, but you well knew what was awaiting you. Now whining on here and demanding change is quite dumb. I mean, just imagine someone signing up for a gym, they tell him that there are no barbells but only dumbbells. He still signs up. After some days he runs up to their counter and demands they buy barbells this second.

I didn't know about the class system when I bought Bannerlord. Your metaphor describes a situation that never happens in reality. A more apt metaphor for this situation would be: a man signs up to a gym that he knew was once well stocked with equipment, he notices there are dumbbells but lacking a very necessary piece of gym equipment in barbells. Perplexed, the individual asks politely why they are lacking barbells and the gym would say "we have many paying members of our gym asking the same question, we will use this money we earn off of you to buy barbells". Problem solved.

You cannot "entitlement" shame individuals who are paying for a service. If I buy a cheese pizza from Pizza Hut, and I find that the cheese on it is soured, I am perfectly within my moral right to ask why and be upset. If I pay for a gym membership and find they are woefully understocked on essential gym equipment that it is just assumed they will have, I am perfectly entitled to ask why they are understocked and ask them to buy more equipment or I will find another gym.

 

[Firunien]

Can we just agree that we don't have knowledge about what everybody thinks about class system, and say 95% of people i know who loved warband hate it?
Also not everyone is complaining, most have given up because there was never a response other than "We want Peasants and Knights on one field" and "It's here to stay".

 

[JakobvanBicke]

I didn't know about the class system when I bought Bannerlord. Your metaphor describes a situation that never happens in reality. A more apt metaphor for this situation would be: a man signs up to a gym that he knew was once well stocked with equipment, he notices there are dumbbells but lacking a very necessary piece of gym equipment in barbells. Perplexed, the individual asks politely why they are lacking barbells and the gym would say "we have many paying members of our gym asking the same question, we will use this money we earn off of you to buy barbells". Problem solved.

You cannot "entitlement" shame individuals who are paying for a service. If I buy a cheese pizza from Pizza Hut, and I find that the cheese on it is soured, I am perfectly within my moral right to ask why and be upset. If I pay for a gym membership and find they are woefully understocked on essential gym equipment that it is just assumed they will have, I am perfectly entitled to ask why they are understocked and ask them to buy more equipment or I will find another gym.

Not really. If you didn't know about the class system when you bought the game that's your fault. It was pretty much public knowledge. Same goes if you sign up for a gym and they don't have the equipment you want in there. You should have checked first. Cause you sign up to what at the moment you buy the game / sign up to a gym is preexisting or promised. If they promised custom equipment in MP and then (after you bought the game) suddenly decided to swap back to a class system that's a reason to be entitled and demand change. But if they don't add a feature they never promised and you're mad about that, there's nothing you can do about it but angrily rant on their forums

edit: also, I think that many people make this a black or white discussion. Either you're for the current system as it is, or you're for the Warband system. It's not like that though. I think that the class system is a very good idea, but needs to be worked on. The game is not balanced. But I do prefer a class system over a custom loadout system.

 

[Maroon]

OK boomer.

In a slightly more serious reply:
How would one know (before buying the game) about the class system and its controversy, if people weren't "entitled" and complaining about it?

 

[Younes]

Not really. If you didn't know about the class system when you bought the game that's your fault. It was pretty much public knowledge. Same goes if you sign up for a gym and they don't have the equipment you want in there. You should have checked first. Cause you sign up to what at the moment you buy the game / sign up to a gym is preexisting or promised. If they promised custom equipment in MP and then (after you bought the game) suddenly decided to swap back to a class system that's a reason to be entitled and demand change. But if they don't add a feature they never promised and you're mad about that, there's nothing you can do about it but angrily rant on their forums

Another YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT THE GAME.

me:

?????

 

[JakobvanBicke]

OK boomer.

In a slightly more serious reply:
How would one know (before buying the game) about the class system and its controversy, if people weren't "entitled" and complaining about it?

In a slightly serious answer:
I did not mean to say that you are not "entitled" to complaining about it. But the way many people do by now (which is getting angry and demanding change) is not the right way to approach it. Your points may be valid and worth considering, but you aint the one telling Taleworlds how to do their jobs. If they say it's a feature which is going to stay how about doing something productive and actually think about how you can make this system better instead of whining about how it won't be changed. Cause by now that's kinda a fact. It won't be changed

 

[Younes]

In a slightly serious answer:
I did not mean to say that you are not "entitled" to complaining about it. But the way many people do by now (which is getting angry and demanding change) is not the right way to approach it. Your points may be valid and worth considering, but you aint the one telling Taleworlds how to do their jobs. If they say it's a feature which is going to stay how about doing something productive and actually think about how you can make this system better instead of whining about how it won't be changed. Cause by now that's kinda a fact. It won't be changed

People tried the peaceful approach it didn't work. People who were here for ages tried to change their mind it didn't work. You should know what happened before saying people should stop crying and feeling entitled. Its frustration not entitlement

 

[Maroon]

I did not mean to say that you are not "entitled" to complaining about it. But the way many people do by now (which is getting angry and demanding change) is not the right way to approach it. Your points may be valid and worth considering, but you aint the one telling Taleworlds how to do their jobs. If they say it's a feature which is going to stay how about doing something productive and actually think about how you can make this system better instead of whining about how it won't be changed. Cause by now that's kinda a fact. It won't be changed

Bannerlord is Taleworlds' game in the end, and it's up to them to decide how to release it. That's 100% true.
The point where people (myself included) get mad, is when we get invited to test an alpha (and later beta) version of the game, are asked to give our honest feedback on the game, and when our honest feedback is "these main points cause multiplayer to suck right now, and if you release it while these points are in the game, it's going to get abandoned within 3 months", and then that feedback gets ignored without being refuted (aside from "we want players to make meaningful choices" without explaining how that even connects to the whole classes vs equipment discussion), and then our predictions become true because multiplayer is actively being abandoned right now... Yeah, we're mad, and we're damn well going to shout it from the rooftops.
Rolling over and ignoring it won't get us anywhere. Persistent feedback, constant reminders that TWs ideas are not working (with thorough explanations as to why they aren't working) is the only thing we can do.

 

[JakobvanBicke]

Bannerlord is Taleworlds' game in the end, and it's up to them to decide how to release it. That's 100% true.
The point where people (myself included) get mad, is when we get invited to test an alpha (and later beta) version of the game, are asked to give our honest feedback on the game, and when our honest feedback is "these main points cause multiplayer to suck right now, and if you release it while these points are in the game, it's going to get abandoned within 3 months", and then that feedback gets ignored without being refuted (aside from "we want players to make meaningful choices" without explaining how that even connects to the whole classes vs equipment discussion), and then our predictions become true because multiplayer is actively being abandoned right now... Yeah, we're mad, and we're damn well going to shout it from the rooftops.
Rolling over and ignoring it won't get us anywhere. Persistent feedback, constant reminders that TWs ideas are not working (with thorough explanations as to why they aren't working) is the only thing we can do.

I'm just wondering. What makes you think that the class system is the reason (or one of the main reasons) why multiplayer is getting abandoned? I on my side would guess it's the unstable servers, buggy gameplay and overall community that is giving new players a hard time coming to like Bannerlord MP. Also the fact that MP is so different from SP makes it that many SP players are not even interested in the multiplayer to begin with.

 

[DainMorgot]

Why are we still answering to a napoleonic wars players, these dudes cant manage 4 directions and ranged weapons with velocities, they will obviously be happy about the dumbing down of the game since they got stomped in warband native

 

[JakobvanBicke]

Why are we still answering to a napoleonic wars players, these dudes cant manage 4 directions and ranged weapons with velocities, they will obviously be happy about the dumbing down of the game since they got stomped in warband native

Ad hominem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But hey. Even if it'd be true, wouldn't dumbing down the game to make it more accessible be a good thing? As it gets more people to get into multiplayer? Well that's just my weird logic.