Why is the battle AI so poor in comparison to Warband?

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Bannerlord not only butchered the combat system with changes to collision, formations and damage but also ruined the battle AI. The amount of times I have watched formations under AI control sit 30 feet from the enemies archers and get sniped to death because they constantly raise/lower their shields and refuse to charge is insane. The amount of times I have seen infantry run at an enemy formation, nearly clash with them then slowly start walking backwards to form up with their fresh reinforcements or totally turn around to reform is also absurd. At least in Warband the AI could properly deploy their skirmisher line THEN charge, for whatever reason the AI here seems to be completely unable to do so.
The awful friendly battle AI means you can never fight underneath someone else's command without fear of significant losses due to unit mismanagement, and you can NEVER go down in battle because the AI is completely incapable of playing the game. I have had several battles where I am absolutely beating the breaks off of the enemy but end up losing horribly when I went down. Your only way to play is to sit back and play relatively conservatively (unless your a horse archer) or install a mod like "RTS Camera" to allow you to continue controlling your units or at the very least do all the work yourself via killing the enemy.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be another misguided attempt at "balancing the game" and "preventing player snowballing". For some unfathomable reason TaleWorlds seems to think that less player control and horrendous AI -> more losses on player's side -> longer, more grindy game -> better game.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be another misguided attempt at "balancing the game" and "preventing player snowballing". For some unfathomable reason TaleWorlds seems to think that less player control and horrendous AI -> more losses on player's side -> longer, more grindy game -> better game.
I actually think that's what it is, because the enemy battle AI isn't anywhere near as bad as it is for friendlies. Even with the RTS battle mod installed units are incapable of staying in formation or committing to a proper charge. I am playing as Sturgia right now and can't win any battles because my allies formations break into pieces when cavalry gets involved because they all try to chase them down.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be another misguided attempt at "balancing the game" and "preventing player snowballing". For some unfathomable reason TaleWorlds seems to think that less player control and horrendous AI -> more losses on player's side -> longer, more grindy game -> better game.
Taking control away from the player is the opposite of what they should be doing and is my number 1 problem with this game. Players want to feel like they're winning not watch the ai play itself.
 
I remember my infantry actually staying back while using their skirmish weapons when told to advance, never see that work anymore.
I remember horse archers actually staying away from enemies properly and not acting like they have horse blinders on like they do now, anything outside of their target they almost completely ignore, I can just ride around them and they barely react, same goes for my own and my allies.
I remember horse archers being so much harder to catch before, they would actually notice enemies in their peripherals and ride away, now they ride straight into infantry lines and other cav. Now its comically easy to intercept and catch them.
I remember telling my cav to charge and they'd never get stuck in a ball or just press themselves against an infantry line(that isn't shield walled.) It feels like they never ride at full speed either anymore no matter what command I use. I enjoy doing some micro with move command to slam them against enemy lines back and forth, and while it still works it feels like they never ride at anything faster than maybe medium speed or slightly higher than that.
I was actually impressed with bannerlord AI both with individual troops and with the lords themselves during the first year or so of EA release but now it feels so much dumber.
There's always the chance that I was just enchanted by the game finally being in my hands that false memories were created or some rose tinted glasses but as with many other features in the game that feel undercooked, I can only hope that modders fill in the gaps with their incredible work.
 
I remember my infantry actually staying back while using their skirmish weapons when told to advance, never see that work anymore.
I remember horse archers actually staying away from enemies properly and not acting like they have horse blinders on like they do now, anything outside of their target they almost completely ignore, I can just ride around them and they barely react, same goes for my own and my allies.
I remember horse archers being so much harder to catch before, they would actually notice enemies in their peripherals and ride away, now they ride straight into infantry lines and other cav. Now its comically easy to intercept and catch them.
I remember telling my cav to charge and they'd never get stuck in a ball or just press themselves against an infantry line(that isn't shield walled.) It feels like they never ride at full speed either anymore no matter what command I use. I enjoy doing some micro with move command to slam them against enemy lines back and forth, and while it still works it feels like they never ride at anything faster than maybe medium speed or slightly higher than that.
I was actually impressed with bannerlord AI both with individual troops and with the lords themselves during the first year or so of EA release but now it feels so much dumber.
There's always the chance that I was just enchanted by the game finally being in my hands that false memories were created or some rose tinted glasses but as with many other features in the game that feel undercooked, I can only hope that modders fill in the gaps with their incredible work.
It isn't rose-tinted glasses. At least not for the Horse Archer stuff, in 2020 they were scary, a threat and difficult to defeat - as they should be. However people kept complaining about HA being OP and Khuzaits steamrolling so HA were 'nerfed' and and have seemingly become progressively worse.
 
The way bannerlord deals with reinforcements is utterly moronic and the main reason i avoid big battles at all cost( which ends up making me avoid reaching mid to end game on most campaings and just starting over) It is always just waiting for 15 minutes while your allies kill themselves for your own troops to spawn and mop up the battlefield.
and you can NEVER go down in battle because the AI is completely incapable of playing the game.
They could just use the exact same behaviour as the F6 command, i can't understand why they choose to give the whole army the charge command.
 
Shield wall formation is weird, they don’t fill in properly and all seem to have designated spots that they have to go to. That’s pretty much all formations though I guess. After issuing a charge command there isn’t really any point of trying to regroup any formations until all enemies around the AI are dead. Not including cavalry.
 
Lets not get confused here and and act like Warband AI was stellar, it definitely had its flaws too. Pikemen and spearmen rarely used their weapons properly and all the AI did was camp if they were outnumbered and charge if they werent. I dont think it, WB AI, is quite as sophisticated as OP makes it out to be. Id say they are both flawed to a certain extent, Bannerlord gets some things right but fails in other respects.
 
There are multiple reasons because AI perform poorly in Bannerlord. I have just reported one of them in support subforum:

 
Lets not get confused here and and act like Warband AI was stellar, it definitely had its flaws too. Pikemen and spearmen rarely used their weapons properly and all the AI did was camp if they were outnumbered and charge if they werent. I dont think it, WB AI, is quite as sophisticated as OP makes it out to be. Id say they are both flawed to a certain extent, Bannerlord gets some things right but fails in other respects.
Warband AI was ****ing rather poor when you had too many troops on the field, but they had enough sense to at least charge you down. Bannerlord AI will continuously shuffle back and forth in front of an archer formation while constantly raising and lowering their shields, charge them when they have lost half their men, only to do a 180 and run to chase cavalry or regroup with the reinforcements coming from the edge of the map. Its just piss poor design and lack of testing. Its been an issue since the game released.
 
The shuffling back and forth is curious, its seams like the enemy archers are using the advance command, F4, for horse archers this is effective, for archers its suicide. They'd be better off just holding their ground and shooting arrows. It could be more complicated than that but thats my take on why archers do that.
 
Warband AI was ****ing rather poor when you had too many troops on the field, but they had enough sense to at least charge you down. Bannerlord AI will continuously shuffle back and forth in front of an archer formation while constantly raising and lowering their shields, charge them when they have lost half their men, only to do a 180 and run to chase cavalry or regroup with the reinforcements coming from the edge of the map. Its just piss poor design and lack of testing. Its been an issue since the game released.
Yeah, WB's AI was not 'better' than BL's. It was more simplistic so it worked more or less and the player can maneuver around that difficulty. BL is trying to do too much in the background but not finishing it well enough so you get these absurd gaps in their AI. I mean, sieges are still absolutely a crapshoot what the enemy will do: walk past you, stuck at the gate, stuck at top of ladder, stuck going from gate to ladder, can't figure out if the gates are open, can barely use siege ladders, struggle to load a catapult, OOB setups are a ****ing task, etc...Not to mention the more basic issues like collision/stuck/gap issues in probably 25% of the scenes
 
Yeah, WB's AI was not 'better' than BL's. It was more simplistic so it worked more or less and the player can maneuver around that difficulty. BL is trying to do too much in the background but not finishing it well enough so you get these absurd gaps in their AI. I mean, sieges are still absolutely a crapshoot what the enemy will do: walk past you, stuck at the gate, stuck at top of ladder, stuck going from gate to ladder, can't figure out if the gates are open, can barely use siege ladders, struggle to load a catapult, OOB setups are a ****ing task, etc...Not to mention the more basic issues like collision/stuck/gap issues in probably 25% of the scenes
I was playing 1.1.4 recently and noticed some of the castles in Stugian and Battanian land caused ALL of my infantry to bunch up into a single corner whilst attacking. No idea why and I was still able to win, but it was ****ing absurd. I also noticed that the game has TONS of invisible walls during siege battles, and in really weird places, like small cliffs you should be able to jump down, or ontop of items you should be able to jump on. ****s just weird. I also noticed the patch has caused lots of overworld crashing for zero reason, even when not modded. Zero idea why.
I would much rather TW have a simplistic, functioning AI in both battles and on the overworld map. As it stands, both are worse than the previous entries and the overall gameplay is significantly worse than what was present in VC.
 
The way bannerlord deals with reinforcements is utterly moronic and the main reason i avoid big battles at all cost( which ends up making me avoid reaching mid to end game on most campaings and just starting over) It is always just waiting for 15 minutes while your allies kill themselves for your own troops to spawn and mop up the battlefield.

They could just use the exact same behaviour as the F6 command, i can't understand why they choose to give the whole army the charge command.
Never go into a battle with allies. I just sit back in world map. Watch them get slaughtered. Then jump in with my mini-army and then reap all the freed prisoners to replenish losses.
 
Never go into a battle with allies. I just sit back in world map. Watch them get slaughtered. Then jump in with my mini-army and then reap all the freed prisoners to replenish losses.
That is such a cowardly tactic... but I can't say I've never done it in this game or M&B Warband. Also, you if you free any lords you get relation points. However, it isnt always advantageous to let your allies get slaughtered, sometimes it pays to help, i.e. if you cannot defeat an army with your own party/mini army and your protecting one of your fiefs.
 
It really is too bad that Failworlds still after what 3+ years can't fix their AI properly. It honestly was better only a few months into alpha. I still remember you could actually take castles because the idiot AI wouldn't have your army just stand there at the bottom of the castle walls not using the ladders while being shot by defending archers. Then they "FIXED" the problem, and every time they "FIX" a problem they make the game worse. This game had such potential but failworlds keeps messing it up and whats worse to me is that so many modders are trying to in many cases actually FIX the problems only to have failworlds put out patches that make those mods not work. failworlds should just hire a bunch of these modders to make the game better and get rid of the garbage that they have working on it now.
 
I feel like you have some rose colored glasses regarding warband, there was zero battle ai in that game all they did was charge.
 
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