Why is a bastard sword called that?

[Despereaux]

I've always wondered, why is the bastard sword called a bastard sword??
Does it mean like the sword is "of irregular, inferior, or dubious origin"?
Or that it's mean and disagreeable?
Or just because you guys maybe ran out of name ideas...?

 

[Ingolifs]

Bastard sword is a common name in many hack n slash games. It referrs to a hand-and-a-half sword. (can be used 1 hand or two)

I think it might be a modern term though. People of the time probably called bastard swords 'long swords' or something.

 

[Despereaux]

Oh ok, thanks

it's just that i use that sword a lot
and whenever i refer it to my brother as my "bastard sword"
he....laughs

 

[Ingolifs]

My favourite type of sword is the serrated dickhead sword.


Wow. This appears to be my 3000 post. No I won't make a celebration as lavish as princescamp's.

 

[Despereaux]

ouuuu wow

never heard of it

 

[lord of the sith lords]

the bastard sword was in the medievil times it is not made up!
don't ask me why they named it that(if i did know i can't remember now)
the bastard sword isn't a long sword the long sword was a 1 hander sword the bastard was a 2 hander and much longer

 

[Despereaux]

the bastard sword was in the medievil times it is not made up!
don't ask me why they named it that(if i did know i can't remember now)
the bastard sword isn't a long sword the long sword was a 1 hander sword the bastard was a 2 hander and much longer

er wot?
that last sentence sorta confused me.....
the bastard does not=long sword
but the bastard=longer than the long sword
and the bastard=2hand?
and wasnt the long sword a two-handed weapon??

 

[Sir Saladin]

A bastard is a child out of wed lock, espescially if it was a knight playing with a peasant girl that produced this bastard child. So they named it a bastard sword because it wasn't a one handed sword or a two-handed sword, it wasn't easy to classify.

 

[Despereaux]

That's the definition i read too
That'd be pretty hard on the peasant woman though wouldn't it?
having a sword come out of you...
But i guess your right

 

[Mechstra]

'Bastard' is a fairly common adjective to describe something that's a cross between one thing and another, and it's not considered vulgar in such a usage. 'Bastardisation' you've surely heard of.

 

[Despereaux]

er did you mean bastardation or bastardination?

 

[Big J Money]

the bastard sword isn't a long sword the long sword was a 1 hander sword the bastard was a 2 hander and much longer

Incorrect.  Long swords come in various types, and some of those most commonly used by knights were wielded both one handed and two handed.  The truth is, the bastard sword can be used these days to refer to all kinds of different things, but the nickname was originally French, and I believe 16th century.  Don't look to wikipedia though, they seem to have things badly mixed up.  They don't have proper sources, and they don't even mention the French origin of the name, although the swords which bore that nickname were able to be used either one handed or two.

One way to look at it would be that the bastard sword is just a nickname for a longsword 200 years later.  By then, longswords were being used more for dueling than on the battlefield.  In any case, it's a retroactive nickname, so not very precise by nature.

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[Despereaux]

sooo....are you saying that they should maybe change the name of the bastard sword?

 

[Sir Saladin]

Yeah, and I just watched an episode of Conquest where they lumped vikings swords,  broadswords, and long swords all together and called them medieval broadswords. How are these darn kids going to get an education with this television stuff confusing them? I'm joking, but come on we can do better than that.

 

[Despereaux]

so its a long, broad, sword that vikings used?

actually i think there was such a sword sometime back then...

so that would mean kids are learning like history right?

 

[Sir Saladin]

Like yeah. Sorry, I didn't notice you were a kid. No offence intended.

 

[Despereaux]

no offence taken

in my vocabulary, kid=10 and under

besides my TV is broken

 

[Agima]

Here's a link to the french wikipedia webpage concerning some history of the bastard sword:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89p%C3%A9e_b%C3%A2tarde

Use Google to translate it if you wish http://www.google.ca/language_tools?hl=en

But here's my translation and understanding of it. First I'm French Canadian, so sorry for my english, it's in no way perfect, but I think it's readable at least!

If the french wikipedia webpage information is correct (I'm not that of a medieval buff like some of you), it seems that with the introduction of metal plated gantelet, they had at some point to lengthen the handle to suit the use of it, to "a hand and half" lenght. They also at some point decided to change the pommel so a fighter could hold a sword with one hand if he want's to, by putting one hand on the handle, or with his two hands, one on the handle and the other one on the pommel (if I understand correctly, doing this was necessary since armor was becoming thicker and the knights needed a better way to penetrate armor, so with 2 hands, I'm assuming they could thrust the sword through an opponent armor).

But here's come the interesting part. According to the french wiki page, using both hands to hold a sword, represented a rupture of the tradition of classical knight. By using his two hands, he could no longer hold his ecu with his blazon on it. By not putting his shield, he could no longer show his "colors", and that's apparently why in all Europe, they started naming it the bastard sword.

True or not, it was fun reading it none-the-less!


- Agima

 

[Despereaux]

ohh wow weird

really interesting though


p.s.: sorry for the wrong placement of the compliment

 

[Damien]

Sword terminology is. . . messy. But the true reason for the term 'bastard' sword is exactly what a few others have mentioned. It is a hybrid sword - capable of being used two-handed with ease, but just as capable of being used with one hand. It is, thus, neither truly two-handed, nor truly single-handed. It is a combination of the two - a bastard sword. The term is fairly old, but actually didn't, apparently, come into use until two-handers did. And the 'bastard' sword predates true two-hand swords by quite awhile.

Just as a sidenote on two other terms:


Broadsword: Totally useless term. The term came into use to describe -any- sword wider in the blade than civilian swords of the time (rapiers, and later - smallswords). Therefore, the term refers to practically every military sword used prior to, and well into, the 17th century. Therefore, the term should never be used to describe any particular sword, because it's neither precise, nor truly accurate.

Longsword: Longsword (or long-sword) has seen a lot of use historically. In -modern- vernacular, it refers to a 'bastard sword.' Longsword now meaning a sword that is long - yet is not a two-hand sword (and even then, some modern enthusiasts will use the term to describe a sword which is clearly a two-hand weapon). But historically, the term's meaning changed over time. There is some indication (though I can't remember from where now) that the term 'longsword' was originally used to describe single-hand knightly swords, as they were .. well. .long. For their time, at least. When longer swords came into use ('bastard swords') the term transferred to those, as single-hand swords were no longer 'long,' as it were.

Either way, D&D has made sure that the term 'longsword' is totally identifiable to non-sword enthusiasts as meaning a single-hand knightly sword. That can cause some confusion between those not learned in the subject, and those learned, as the learned refer to 'longswords' in the modern (and 'correct') usage of the term.


As I opened with - sword terminology is messy.