Why I don't want combos/special moves

[alesch]

I've seen a lot of posts asking about adding combos and/or special moves to this game, and I don't feel like picking which one is the best toe respond to. I think that combos in this game would be a bad idea because they tend to degrade into really repeatitive, dumb, button mashing games. They're fine in an arcade action game, but I don't want to see M&B become a Dynasty Warriors clone. the way the combat is currently set up is currently decently intelligent. It isn't quite "Push push push kill, repeat", even though it seems taht way when you're fighting river pirates. I find you can already do combos in a way, for example swinging left then right in rapid succession. That's probably about as much of a combo as most people in heavy armours with heavy weapons could do. Unless it's an anime cartoon you don't see guys in armour hopping around swinging swords in fancy twirls and jumping slashes. They might be aethetically pleasing but they're just impractical things to do in combat.

As for special or super moves, that's just silly. Are you going to smack the groudn with your maul, and have the ensuing shockwave knock opponents on their butts? Or maybe a huge axe will cleave a wide crack in the ground that enemies would fall into. Maybe you could have a glowing power-shot from your bow! The glowing radioactive arrow of lotsa-owwie! Supermoves are for Street Fighter and Mortal Combat.

That was my reducto ad absurdum for the day.

 

[Eird-Way]

I find you can already do combos in a way, for example swinging left then right in rapid succession.

That's what I was suggesting. I just suggest that it be implemented as an actual feature, so that the momentum of your weapon can give you a bit of an edge if you vary your attacks smartly instead of hacking blindly.

I think this is all the combat depth the game needs. (almost)

 

[Ancientwanker]

Theres a difference between the unrealistic combos you might find in some rubbish console game and more realistic combos you might find in a game like Blade of Darkness. Even just a few simple moves besides right, left, overhand slash would add some depth.

I dont remember anyone suggesting creating shockwaves with your hammer blows or whipping your sword around and creating a plasma web.

 

[corksacker69]

'special' moves would be things like bashing the guy with your sheild to stun him, or a quick dash strike to knock someone down or somthing. what, you though people were refering to down-downright-right-A fireballs from streetfighter 2 when they were talking about special moves? to quote puppy from retarded animal babies 13: you're on MAD crack!

 

[Illinest]

I can support you in wishing for a game that DOESN'T push over the top combat animations at you, but the game just doesn't feel right just yet. The system lacks depth. Whether depth is added through adding different attack, movement, or blocking options, or by adding a more robust group command scheme, I definately think that SOMETHING is missing.

 

[alesch]

I was exagerating a fair bit I know, that's why I put the ad absurdium bit in, but I just wanted to show how easily these things could be taken too far. Maybe some more types of attacks, but I wouldn't want them to be "special attacks", 'cause that sounds like an arcade game to me. Also combos are way too arcade like even if they try to avoid going over the top, if just feels wrong to me to just hit attack faster if I want to win. Real swordfighting is about finding or making openings and exploiting them, not just swinging really fast.

Maybe add locking blades, or the possibiliy to turn a block into a counter attack. I could see this type of thing adding to the "intelligent combat" and not the button mashers fighting, which is always good in my books. My main point is that I want to feel like I'm actually going sword to sword with a guy, and not just an invinsible super-hero ninja knight from Hell.

 

[Voldy]

One thing that I enjoy most in the game is going head to head on foot (doesn't that sound funny )during a battle against a knight or other tougher unit. The swordplay of going back and forth, blocking attacks and parying, is much more interesting than scalping 3 river pirates with one swing.

My suggestion as an addition to your suggestion of a more complex fighting system, is that we be given tougher opponents to fight.

Having reached level 38 with the best armor and weapons available, much of the challenge of combat has been reduced to finding ways to tilt battles against me in some way.

Now that I think about this, my suggestion may be more appropraite for a different thread, but I think that it goes along with creating more depth to the fighting.

I realize I have rambled a fair bit so I will sum up my points here:

To help add more depth of challenge to the combat of the game, in addition to different fighting techniques I suggest tougher "hero" opponents be added. To fight these opponents, you will need more than your basic right side slash, left side slash, head slash, technique to defeat, which is where my suggestion and the original poster's suggestions come together.

 

[alesch]

I like that idea a lot. Swordfighting against one tough opponent would be a lot more fun than a giant slashy-orgy-of-death with river pirates and other rabble. But it shouldn't be an opponent who's 'tough' just by having more hitpoints or something, but rather having more skill with his sword. Maybe have the AI for that one character tweaked to a slightly higher level.

So i guess this post has burned down to:

New moves

No combos, but possibly smoother transition between attacks

More intense mano-a-mano fights

Keep fighting intelligent and not arcade-y


Summing up rules.

 

[Skyrage]

Would be interesting if there were different skill-levels of fighting...like, the river pirates remain the way they are (no finesse in their fighting) while it progresses up to soldiers who have some tricks up their sleeve and then finally the top end fighters and knights who know it all and can pull off some really nasty attacks or *moves*...

Yes, it will boil down to moves basically, but NOT any of the arcade superduper 1k damage moves, but more like different weaponplay styles and a manner of executing these...only problem is of course to come up with these things for all the diff weapon types (swords, two handed swords, axes, twohanded axes, blunt weapons, large blunt weapons etc etc) since they all are obviously different...some moves could be shared by diff types, but of course, not all of them...

 

[Ace]

Yes, it will boil down to moves basically, but NOT any of the arcade superduper 1k damage moves, but more like different weaponplay styles and a manner of executing these...only problem is of course to come up with these things for all the diff weapon types (swords, two handed swords, axes, twohanded axes, blunt weapons, large blunt weapons etc etc) since they all are obviously different...some moves could be shared by diff types, but of course, not all of them...

I don't think it necessarily has to come down to "moves." I think improving the coordination that your enemies use could be a better solution. I've seen a single enemy attack, then fall back. If higher level enemies could be programmed to do this in a coordinated fashion, for example, especially if they were just doing it to draw your attention away from enemy archers, it would make them even more challenging.

I know AI programming is especially challenging, but I figured if anyone could do it, Armagan could.

 

[Skyrage]

Yes, it will boil down to moves basically, but NOT any of the arcade superduper 1k damage moves, but more like different weaponplay styles and a manner of executing these...only problem is of course to come up with these things for all the diff weapon types (swords, two handed swords, axes, twohanded axes, blunt weapons, large blunt weapons etc etc) since they all are obviously different...some moves could be shared by diff types, but of course, not all of them...

I don't think it necessarily has to come down to "moves." I think improving the coordination that your enemies use could be a better solution. I've seen a single enemy attack, then fall back. If higher level enemies could be programmed to do this in a coordinated fashion, for example, especially if they were just doing it to draw your attention away from enemy archers, it would make them even more challenging.

I know AI programming is especially challenging, but I figured if anyone could do it, Armagan could.

I think that sort of is more of general AI improvements than anything else...sure, one can make the AI randomize their attacks a bit etc, like one time they make 1 attack before blocking, and next time 3 attacks...but it'd still not be that much of swordsplay...for pirates and simpletons that might work, but soldiers and knights knew all sorts of tricks apart from just swinging a weapon randomly...

 

[armagan]

I know AI programming is especially challenging, but I figured if anyone could do it, Armagan could.

Thanks for your confidence

I hope one-to-one combat will get deeper with time. Currently, higher level opponents already have better combat AI than low-level ones. But of course, there should be more of a difference. I also hope to improve combat mechanics towards more realism and depth if I can find the time.

 

[alesch]

As long as there's no ninja-flipping kung foo knights beating on Bruce Lee I'm happy.

 

[nox]

Here's my response.

I don't want stupid arcade combos either, however I do want time intense responsive combat where parry and riposte, counter-strike and range matter.

Medieval sword combat was a brutal thing, and men would use any advantage they could lay their hands on to defeat their opponent.

I for one am asking for combat that's involved and reactionary, not for button mashing sequences and stupid ae attacks and flaming weapons.

 

[nox]

Let me give you some examples -

an attack that if executed immediately after a parry will perform an attack inside guard

the ability to kick

an attack that will block with parry BEHIND you, then spin you around and strike if you follow up with an attack

chain attacks, like low coming up left, then right to left and finally up left coming down right

combo attacks like a thrust forward turned into a body spin and strike behind you

I'm a martial artist, not a fantasy guy or console gamer. This is all stuff I actually do with hand and a half sword =)

 

[corksacker69]

there could be a system of timed/oppertunity attacks. for example, you parry an attack, and at the exact instance you block the attack, you hit the attack button, and you quickly bat the attackers weapon aside and do a counterattack. or hitting the block button twice in quick succestion will do a sheild bash when you have a sheild equiped. such a system would add a skill element to the game. just an idea.

 

[Ancientwanker]

In the new Morrowind game they are going to have a system where swinging right to left and then back to right gets you a bonus. Using the weapons inertia realistically. That might work well here.

 

[alesch]

Nox:

I know all those things are possible, and I'm not a martial artist, I can do things with wooden swords a lot more acrobatic than that, but fancy swordplay wouldn't really be practical. Spinning to strike behind you? You can do that already, just turn the mouse, face the other way and attack. If you add all sorts of different kung-fu-esque moves then the combat interface gets more and more cluttered, until eventually it does become a clickfest where you just mash buttons and hope you win the fight.

 

[Kynes]

Spinning to strike behind you? You can do that already, just turn the mouse, face the other way and attack. If you add all sorts of different kung-fu-esque moves then the combat interface gets more and more cluttered, until eventually it does become a clickfest where you just mash buttons and hope you win the fight.

Exactly.

 

[Zelun]

I would even settle for a more directly controllable attacks.

Blade of Darkness esque style.