Why I decided not to buy this game

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Modulus

Recruit
First of all let me state that I originally intended to purchase this game after playing the demo once; I found it enjoyable even though it was clearly unfinished.

But then I tried to play it again and the game did not start, not only that but it caused my system to hang because the process was eating up 100% of my CPU time forcing me to hard-reset my computer.
So I dolefully set off to the forums to try to find out what was wrong with the game that I was enjoying. What I found from reading the forums is that the game has some sort of copy protection.
WTF?
Why does this game need copy protection? Do you (the developers) realize that this is not a AAA multimillion dollar game? Why on God’s green earth do you think you need copy protection?
Now I understand why you thought you might need copy protection, as every sales is needed when working on a indie game. But do you realize that this is going to end up costing you money instead of making you money (solely because the copy protection seems to cause the game to not work on a lot of people’s computers)?
I for one am NOT buying this game because of the protection, and its side-effects.
Also is this copy protection installing some driver BS like Starforce? If it does, is there an uninstall?

So remove the copy protection and I might reconsider purchasing it.



Some critiques on the game itself
The level graphics are hideous, the first town is just ugly; but this is not a deal breaker, most people will find the game enjoyable enough to keep playing.
The towns simply need more detail, better textures and action, movement, or something because they seem awfully static.

Combat terrain is way too random and hilly.
The main map geography is uninteresting. It needs to have shape and definition.

Performance is pretty bad as well. I am running a very high end system and I noticed that once during a battle the frame rate dropped to low 40s. When making a budget title game you have to appeal to a wide audience to maximize your profits, this means making the game run an acceptable frame rates even on low end computers.

Sound wise you game is dead. You need more sound, more ambiance, more life.

Additionally you might want to consider putting in some sort of game play hook/device that make people want to play longer than just through the story (if you are going to have a story). Something like collecting items to make your character more powerful, something to keep the player occupied for longer than the game is.

Oh also horses seem kind of unresponsive. They need to have a better turning radius or something, especially in the combat area.
Jumping might need to be tweaked as well.. it just don’t feel right.
A sprint key might would be a nice addition as well.
Tighten up the control/response of the game too, again it doesn’t always feel right


Fix some of these things and I think you will have a success on you hands. But mainly ditch the copy protection, as it is more of a headache than it is worth.
 
I'm pretty sure there is no copy protection. Otherwise the method we use to safely install total conversions wouldn't work. The reason for the somewhat low quality graphics is that this is a BETA. I think this is actually really good for a game on version 0.632. And the uninstall is right there in the start menu folder. And there is no 'driver BS.' I don't know what level graphics are supposed to be. I do agree that Zendar isn't pretty. More city details and graphics and stuff was promised for the update coming out in the next 2-3 weeks. Your system must be very screwy, because I have a pretty low-end system and I can multitask this game even when another prog is using most of the processor. And the reason that horses and your charecter respond slowly is that your athletics and riding aren't high enough. Did you even take the time to think about what you're writing?
 
Modulus, your post is stupid. This isn't an insult, it's a fact, so no need to get worked up about it.

First of all you have a bad attitude, as if the makers of the game owe something to you, you're going "Wah wah wah why isn't this better?" If you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody really cares. The game is being made by two people and it costs eleven bucks. In other words, work is slow, and even the finished product is hardly going to be like Morrowind in terms of volume. Use your head.

Secondly, I've never heard about the game having copy protection, I've never had any problems with it, and I've never heard about anyone having problems with it before. So go figure.

Finally, all your suggestions are either age-old (It's clear that you didn't bother doing any research), most of them are obviously going to happen at some point. I also don't understand what you're saying about performance, since although I have a pretty low-end computer, I've never experienced a drop in framerate, not even in the most heated of battles. And complaining about horse responsiveness is pure idiocy; with a decent horse and riding ability, you can turn on a dime.
 
http://taleworlds.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=354&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=protection&start=45
"After speaking to Rafael Ahucha, creator of Themida which is the protection system that this game uses..."

I've done my research, Themida is a copy proteciton scheme similar to that of StarForce... have you even read the support forums? it's full of people who can't get the game to start.

Also it appear that the copy protection driver does NOT uninstall when you uninstall the game... i have e-mail the author of the copy protection for an uninstall, because it reinstall itself if you try to uninstall it.

and you don't need to start attacking me because I made some critiques about the game. My opinions are just as valid as yours.
 
Something like collecting items to make your character more powerful, something to keep the player occupied for longer than the game is.
I believe this is what the game is all about (beside gaining levels), and it has kept me playing for quite some time.

Never had any problems with copy protection, but sometimes battles with great amount of horses lowers your FPS greatly (engine problem).
 
Modulus said:
First of all let me state that I originally intended to purchase this game after playing the demo once; I found it enjoyable even though it was clearly unfinished.

But then I tried to play it again and the game did not start, not only that but it caused my system to hang because the process was eating up 100% of my CPU time forcing me to hard-reset my computer.
So I dolefully set off to the forums to try to find out what was wrong with the game that I was enjoying. What I found from reading the forums is that the game has some sort of copy protection.
WTF?
Why does this game need copy protection? Do you (the developers) realize that this is not a AAA multimillion dollar game? Why on God’s green earth do you think you need copy protection?
Now I understand why you thought you might need copy protection, as every sales is needed when working on a indie game. But do you realize that this is going to end up costing you money instead of making you money (solely because the copy protection seems to cause the game to not work on a lot of people’s computers)?
I for one am NOT buying this game because of the protection, and its side-effects.
Also is this copy protection installing some driver BS like Starforce? If it does, is there an uninstall?

So remove the copy protection and I might reconsider purchasing it.



Some critiques on the game itself
The level graphics are hideous, the first town is just ugly; but this is not a deal breaker, most people will find the game enjoyable enough to keep playing.
The towns simply need more detail, better textures and action, movement, or something because they seem awfully static.

Combat terrain is way too random and hilly.
The main map geography is uninteresting. It needs to have shape and definition.

Performance is pretty bad as well. I am running a very high end system and I noticed that once during a battle the frame rate dropped to low 40s. When making a budget title game you have to appeal to a wide audience to maximize your profits, this means making the game run an acceptable frame rates even on low end computers.

Sound wise you game is dead. You need more sound, more ambiance, more life.

Additionally you might want to consider putting in some sort of game play hook/device that make people want to play longer than just through the story (if you are going to have a story). Something like collecting items to make your character more powerful, something to keep the player occupied for longer than the game is.

Oh also horses seem kind of unresponsive. They need to have a better turning radius or something, especially in the combat area.
Jumping might need to be tweaked as well.. it just don’t feel right.
A sprint key might would be a nice addition as well.
Tighten up the control/response of the game too, again it doesn’t always feel right


Fix some of these things and I think you will have a success on you hands. But mainly ditch the copy protection, as it is more of a headache than it is worth.

Why don't we get to the real heart of the issue. You're mad you can't find some pirated serial. That's how you come across whining about copy protection. As a testament to how good this game is, I know folks who don't usually pay for games, who STILL bought this game fair and square.

The control for this game is amazing. I don't want 16 buttons to mess with in the heat of battle. Horses need to turn faster? These are meant to feel more like real horses, not a BMX bike.

The graphics are being worked on as we speak, and personally, some of the textures are quite promising. If you don't like the game, don't let the door hit you on your smarmy little can on the way out.

This game has many supporters, I doubt we'll miss one whiny little brat.
 
Relax guys!

He brings up valid points and reasonable suggestions, that we've touched on before. His statements are mixed with hyperbole and come off as harsh because he's pissed he can't run the game properly due to the copy protection being incompatible with his system. Other people ARE having problems running the game (although not that many).. and even if you can run it, not everyone has the same hardware, settings or operating system as you do.

I suspect his performance issues are being affected by the copy protection. I've had problems with Starforce type copy protection which either killed my FPS, screwed up my USB devices or caused my computer to reboot, so I understand what he's going through completely. I'm running a low-end system and I still get 150 fps most of the time (except when I turn battle-size up to 100% and there's tons of horsemen on screen), so I consider myself fortunate.

As for horses seeming unresponsive, you need a better horse and higher riding skill.

We come from the same community (shacknews).. and we make it a point to promote underdog/independant developers, especially quality ones like Taleworlds.. I know he's not just an angry kiddie who can't pirate the game. No need to get all defensive and personally attack him..he likes the game and would have purchased it if he could play it properly.
 
Samieldracul said:
Why don't we get to the real heart of the issue. You're mad you can't find some pirated serial. That's how you come across whining about copy protection. As a testament to how good this game is, I know folks who don't usually pay for games, who STILL bought this game fair and square.

Actually what I was thinking while reading that, looks like you're just pissed you can't pirate. Dosen't matter tho, copy protection is necessary, without it a lot of money would be lost. So I doubt that it's going anywhere, you just have to learn to suckle the milk out of a tough tity.

As most other people also mentioned, it's a beta, and all of the issues you mentioned have been covered. You complaining about this not being to standards is like you buying a 68 camero and *****ing about it not coming with DVD/Navigation.
 
I've not experienced any of the problems the original poster has had in running M&B, although if I had I'm certain I too would not be too happy with the game. My framerates have always been good and the game's been very stable.

The reality of computer gaming is that there are so many possible reasons why a certain software is not running well on a particular machine, that it's inevitable that a game somewhere will cause someone problems - so I would not be quick to accuse anyone of exaggerating their difficulties. I withhold judgement in agreeing or disagreeing.

As for the comments on what M&B lacks, I think the original poster's comments are not without merit - although here I would say they are a bit exaggerated:

M&B's sounds are rudimentary at best - I'd agree there, but it's no deal-breaker for me.

Zendar is rather plain - I'd agree to that much, howeversaying it's hideous is an exaggeration. I would agree that if you're looking for state-of-the-art graphics, there are plenty of games that you could buy with awesome graphics and mediocre gameplay. I'd rather have the reverse -if both awesome graphics and awesome gameplay weren't possible.

I'd agree that additional content is necessary for long-term play, but the game is a work-in-progress and more content is on the way.

A sprint ability would be a good addition. When your riding ability is low, the horses - particularly in the arena - aren't very responsive. When you get a high riding level and a maneuverable courser or spirited hunter, then you'll see the difference.

In summary, I don't consider myself an uncritical fanboy of this game. I've made too many suggestions to believe it has no room for improvement.

However, I am certain for me, (even if I stopped playing today) Mount&Blade will be a memorable game that I will look back years from now with fond memories of the incredible mounted combat and dynamic battles. I've played a lot of RPGs and action games, but this one in its unfinished state has impressed me the most.

I think I'm not alone.
 
Pavlov said:
Samieldracul said:
Why don't we get to the real heart of the issue. You're mad you can't find some pirated serial. That's how you come across whining about copy protection. As a testament to how good this game is, I know folks who don't usually pay for games, who STILL bought this game fair and square.

Actually what I was thinking while reading that, looks like you're just pissed you can't pirate. Dosen't matter tho, copy protection is necessary, without it a lot of money would be lost. So I doubt that it's going anywhere, you just have to learn to suckle the milk out of a tough tity.

As most other people also mentioned, it's a beta, and all of the issues you mentioned have been covered. You complaining about this not being to standards is like you buying a 68 camero and *****ing about it not coming with DVD/Navigation.

What kills me is, that for 12 bucks, folks waste that money on other things all day. Why not buy this game? And yeah, I agree on the other things too. Complaining about a beta while it's still being updated is goofy. It's one thing to have suggestions, it's another to rant about how much a beta sucks.
 
No I don't pirate. I'm totally against pirating... I’m an inspiring game developer myself. I was really about to buy this game until I started having problems.

My comments were meant to be constructive, not as a troll.
I’m sorry I just got a little pissed that I got something installed on my computer that I cannot get rid of (at least starforce has an uninstall).

It’s a fun game, and it worked on my system like 50% of the time. I just can’t understand why you need to put a copy protection scheme on a cheap indie game.
 
I have actually never purchased a game of this type (RPG with real-time action combat), but the game impressed me. There are certainly some obvious flaws (town graphics, lack of gameplay, extraordinarily hilly combat terrain), but frankly, I'm amused by lancing oncoming horsemen to their deaths. :smile:

On my system, the game runs excellently, and I usually have Adobe Illustrator open at the same time for my graphics work. I guess this is really a case of different results because of different machines.
 
Well it didn't run bad all the time, just once or twice did I notice the frame rates drop to something low. Just something that needs to be looked at if they are trying to appeal to a wide audience.

But seriously my only real complaint about the game is the anti-hack/copy protection that is busted. I would happily pay 12 bucks for this game if it started correctly 100% of the time (probably would be willing to pay even more… lancing people IS fun).


... ok well I'm done, I justed want to let the dev know what I thought about the copy protection. I really wish you would ditch it so I could play the game reliably; oh well.
 
I think the reason you got such a hostile response, Modulus, is because your post was so negative. If your only problem is with the copy protection, then it would have been better to say, "I'm having problem with the copy protection, can anybody help me?" rather than going into a long sour grapes spiel about why you won't pay money for the game.
 
horses deffinately don't need to turn better or have better controls. The horse riding is the best part of the game in my opinion. Your horse sucked cause you were level 5 and riding a n00b horse. Obviously the 1st horse you get is going to be slow and not gonna be able to run circles around the enemies. But they shouldn't change a thing about horses in this game..... the horses are great.
 
one of the main reasons i bought it was because of the potential, i mean lets admit it doesnt look great compared to other games but it has quite good playability and alot can be improved. (just look at betas of some other games, check the alpha of warcraft 3....)
 
Seriously. The practice horse is trash and upping your riding skill does a lot.

With 7 riding and a champion courser, I'm absolutely flying around the map.

As for graphics, it's pretty good. The gameplay is the best I've seen in a long time.
 
Continuing the deviation from the initial post...

I still think that horseriding should be based more on the actual players skill than just upping the abstracted riding skill level.

From an earlier post about riding:

When you want to speed up instead of just pressing forward, how about if you had to give a couple of knocks on the forward key to get the beast moving. Once at a trot another knock of the heels might get the horse to canter... another to charge.

This would roughly equate to kicking your heels into the horses flanks.

I think it would add a certain amount of realism and make playing the game more skillful.

Taking that idea a little bit further. Riders (with a low skill perhaps) could buy and use spurs to control more unruly animals. This would come with it's own dangers of course... spurring too much might result in getting thrown from the horse.
 
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