Rafa911
Regular
Yes this is one main problem with field battles atm
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Why field battles turn into a 1:1 K/D slugfest
- 主题发起人 Demoulius
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Regular
I think there should be some kind of hardcoded behavior for melee/cavalry/archers that takes into account the situation of the battle.
For example:
-Skirmish phase: archers and infantry with ranged weapons get closer to the enemy up until a sizeable force approaches them. Then they revert to another AI phase. Cavalry maneuvers to protect their flank/harass their enemies.
-Melee phase: infantry faces the enemy in a balanced stance, as lines get thinner they reinforce whichever side is loosing too many soldiers. Archers split in groups and support the infrantry. Cavalry engages enemy cavalry when their number is similar, or, if overwhelmingly stronger and more numerous, they harass the enemies' flanks and rear.
-Pursue phase: one of the two armies has been thinned down so much its morale starts breaking. Elite units might decide to fight to the bitter end unless ordered to, and form small, semi-independent circle or shieldwall formations in order to not go down that easily. Archers might either run (if the enemy has cavalry which could pursue them) or take higher ground while retreating, taking potshots. Cavalry would protect the retreat and try to hamper enemy cavalry's attempt to run down the retreating forces.
The winning army would default to a "full offensive" kind of behavior. The archers would engage at will and aggressively charge the enemy if they can get a better shot without losing them. Infantry would break down in smaller groups and engage all targets of opportunity, sometimes literally dropping shields in order to be faster and catch up to the retreating enemy (making them more vulnerable to archer fire.) Cavalry would act independently and run down any unit they can find, prioritizing archers.
For example:
-Skirmish phase: archers and infantry with ranged weapons get closer to the enemy up until a sizeable force approaches them. Then they revert to another AI phase. Cavalry maneuvers to protect their flank/harass their enemies.
-Melee phase: infantry faces the enemy in a balanced stance, as lines get thinner they reinforce whichever side is loosing too many soldiers. Archers split in groups and support the infrantry. Cavalry engages enemy cavalry when their number is similar, or, if overwhelmingly stronger and more numerous, they harass the enemies' flanks and rear.
-Pursue phase: one of the two armies has been thinned down so much its morale starts breaking. Elite units might decide to fight to the bitter end unless ordered to, and form small, semi-independent circle or shieldwall formations in order to not go down that easily. Archers might either run (if the enemy has cavalry which could pursue them) or take higher ground while retreating, taking potshots. Cavalry would protect the retreat and try to hamper enemy cavalry's attempt to run down the retreating forces.
The winning army would default to a "full offensive" kind of behavior. The archers would engage at will and aggressively charge the enemy if they can get a better shot without losing them. Infantry would break down in smaller groups and engage all targets of opportunity, sometimes literally dropping shields in order to be faster and catch up to the retreating enemy (making them more vulnerable to archer fire.) Cavalry would act independently and run down any unit they can find, prioritizing archers.
I gotta say, reading your replies about the Ai fixating on a set target and ignoring everything else does ALSO seem to be part of it. That said I think my own comment about an almost complete abscense of blocking still stands. I did a tourney today and noticed that my companions with high skill in 2 handed were reliably LOSING to people who had **** all in 2 handed skill 
Im talking a 111 vs 27 (their current stats) differences. The 27 ones beat the higher one 3 times in this tourney alone in 1 of the fights the 27 skill one was even wounded while the other wasent!
So clearly skill in the weapon group makes **** all difference. Neither party ever tried to block or feint either. Just randomly flail their weapons at their opponent. Wtf did they do? When the game came out combat AI was absolutely FINE! Challenging in some aspects even! And not this....mess!
Im talking a 111 vs 27 (their current stats) differences. The 27 ones beat the higher one 3 times in this tourney alone
in 1 of the fights the 27 skill one was even wounded while the other wasent!So clearly skill in the weapon group makes **** all difference. Neither party ever tried to block or feint either. Just randomly flail their weapons at their opponent. Wtf did they do? When the game came out combat AI was absolutely FINE! Challenging in some aspects even! And not this....mess!
You should try the Realistic Battle mod.I gotta say, reading your replies about the Ai fixating on a set target and ignoring everything else does ALSO seem to be part of it. That said I think my own comment about an almost complete abscense of blocking still stands. I did a tourney today and noticed that my companions with high skill in 2 handed were reliably LOSING to people who had **** all in 2 handed skill
Im talking a 111 vs 27 (their current stats) differences. The 27 ones beat the higher one 3 times in this tourney alone
So clearly skill in the weapon group makes **** all difference. Neither party ever tried to block or feint either. Just randomly flail their weapons at their opponent. Wtf did they do? When the game came out combat AI was absolutely FINE! Challenging in some aspects even! And not this....mess!
As the dude that made it here in this very thread confirmed, it addresses some of these issues. I can't play without it personally.
Il have to look into that! It sure sounds good
That said, not to dismiss all over a modders hard work but id prefer if their work wasent needed at all
Native needs to have proper combat and not this horrible mess that they turned it into....
I loved that fake E3 video they did years ago with the AI forming formations and countering each other. The battles were something else. Warband was just slugfest. No tactics, just everyone charge and spam attack. Then Bannerlord released and we got nothing like that E3 demo. Instead we got Warband with slightly better graphics.
Dont know man the graphics and animations have greatly improved since that video. Dident they change engine halfway through production or something? Maybe that did some damage to their code that they dident expect. Or at least its not implausible that it stalled their progress in some or multiple ways.
Why change the engine though? I wonder what happened that either made them do it or finalized the decision. Did they lose the original engine? Did they create something that was more restricting than they anticipated? I wish I knew, because the answer could potentially make the disappointment of not having that AI and those features in EA disappoint a little less.
Who knows? Theyre at the end of the day a company and since M&B warband has come out they have gotten competition. If id have to wager a guess id say it was done to have an edge over the compition or something of that nature.
If thats true or not though? No clue. Im just guessing here
If thats true or not though? No clue. Im just guessing here
Just had another tourney where a companion with 27 2 handed skill beat another with 43 1 handed skill and later an npc with 130 2 handed skill without getting hit once. Noone ever blocked or whatnot she was just lucky to get the first hit in.
Seriously they said they changed how AI uses weapon skill to determine how they fight and its just blatantly false.... The system we got right now is a joke. Does weapon skill even do anything?
she was just lucky to get the first hit in.Seriously they said they changed how AI uses weapon skill to determine how they fight and its just blatantly false.... The system we got right now is a joke. Does weapon skill even do anything?
WhyAmIHere
If they did change the engine halfway through then that speaks to HUGE disfunction at TW from a game design/management standpoint. It's never supposed to get that far. That's like sailing an aircraft carrier from New York halfway to London before suddenly realizing you actually need to go to Panama and turning the ship around near the Azores.
Look at the code or read the comment of @Philozoraptor in this thread...Just had another tourney where a companion with 27 2 handed skill beat another with 43 1 handed skill and later an npc with 130 2 handed skill without getting hit once. Noone ever blocked or whatnot
Seriously they said they changed how AI uses weapon skill to determine how they fight and its just blatantly false.... The system we got right now is a joke. Does weapon skill even do anything?
Edit: BTW the difficult multiplier of the game plays also a role
I read his comment. Im talking about a non modded playthrough. TW themselves said they changed how weapon skills worked so only the higher tiered troops should block and such. Yet their changes just made it that noone does now.
About the multiplier: im playing on max difficulty. The AI is laughably stupid.... I cant inmagine how horrible they become if the difficulty is lower...
OK i was able to change the Ai Parry/Block descision to an amount they are, regardless their skill, very good. A 1v1 with 1h and shield know last nearly 30sec. But I saw a problem with targeting. It seems that that the Ai swap the target regardless of the distance to it(at least in tournaments). So a agent who is in a close fight actually switch to an other agent in 20m range and get his head chopped by the first one who he was fighting with.
I can't play without it now, either. It's like night and day, it's incredible.
Does the AI uses shield bash and kicks in rbm? That would be interesting
I wouldn't know why you wouldn't have it here, so yes. I know I was kicked and shield bashed quite a lot, and I haven't played 1.5.9 yet without mods.
