Why equipment pricing should dramatically drop

Maniccc

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One of the economy issues TW is putting band-aids on is the loot selling post battle victory. The reason for one of these artificial and arbitrary band-aids is because of an earlier problem: the exorbitant costs of equipment. Equipment costs as they are make no sense given the rest of the game.

For example: unit upgrades. Unit upgrades are much much cheaper than the equipment those units receive. I can afford to upgrade multiple units into crossbowmen long before I can afford a crossbow for myself. Well, I can't even find any for sale most of the time, anyway. The game already has an excellent upgrade mechanic with having to buy a warhorse, or horse, to upgrade certain units. This mechanic should be in place for all upgrades whenever you go from a troop not having a crossbow and large shield to suddenly having one (for example). You actually have to pay for that equipment. The costs for equipment should drop radically, in some cases to less than a tenth of current prices (a basic crossbow should cost around 50 or so), and should be more readily available for purchase.

Conquest of enemy soldiers involves stripping the dead and surrendered of their gear, robbing them of their money and valuable goods, etc. If the prices for a crossbow is 50 and not 20k plus, that won't be an issue, will it? So instead of putting a band-aid on a problem, why not fix the problem in the first place? General equipment should be readily available and not be a money sink. Masterwork level equipment could be pricey, or adding in the ability to hire a smith to make master crafted custom gear could serve as a money sink, but basic equipment should be cheap, functional and plentiful, solving the loot-to-wealth problem and enabling the early game player to easily find and purchase basic gear to outfit himself as he wishes to play. As mentioned, this also provides the bonus ability of unit upgrades being consistent across the board in a way that makes sense.

 
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KidKiedis

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basic equipment should be cheap
Have to disagree. There's a ton of posts on this forum about how players get incredibly rich upon robbing looters. Getting to midgame I already had 5 fully equipped in tier 4-5 companions and 60k purse(bag). Since gold is one of major motivations for players to do quests and use other features, reducing shop prices will make things even worse.

Maybe troops upgrade prices should be highter..
 

Yangbang

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I agree with Maniccc, I hate that weapons and armor are so stupidly priced. The price for a good bow or armor is incredibly outlandish. But my crossbow men at the daily rate of 20 gold can afford crossbows and armor at their pay.

Weapons and armor should not be so expensive so that gold isn't so easily farmed from war spoils. Specifically from arms. Unless its high tier weapons
 

metafa

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I agree with Maniccc, I hate that weapons and armor are so stupidly priced. The price for a good bow or armor is incredibly outlandish. But my crossbow men at the daily rate of 20 gold can afford crossbows and armor at their pay.

Weapons and armor should not be so expensive so that gold isn't so easily farmed from war spoils. Specifically from arms. Unless its high tier weapons
Ever tried taking a fief? It provides sh*tload of money.
 

Yangbang

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Ever tried taking a fief? It provides sh*tload of money.
That doesn't solve the issue of why a suit of armour is the worth of an entire fief. That would mean the value of an army of well suited infantry is more than the dam kingdom.
 

metafa

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That doesn't solve the issue of why a suit of armour is the worth of an entire fief. That would mean the value of an army of well suited infantry is more than the dam kingdom.
I like it because it gives me something to work towards. I have several pieces of equipment I payed around 100k in total for. Right now - a few in-game months later - I have around 170k.
 

Yangbang

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I like it because it gives me something to work towards. I have several pieces of equipment I payed around 100k in total for. Right now - a few in-game months later - I have around 170k.
Yes that sounds "rewarding" but in a terrible sense haha. You just worked hours to save up funds for armor and weapons around 100k while you controlled armies of troops already wearing and using the same things you're trying so hard to get.

Imagine how campfire stories are, "Oy Capt'n, what's you big dream after we make our spoils of war?"
"Well men, after I get my riches. I'll finally be able to buy that nice set of armor and weapons I've always wanted but could never afford. Now sgt. jimmy, let's promote you to that next tier rank, the one that has the same armor I've been dying to have, that cost me 10k to buy for myself but only 150 denars for you."
 

metafa

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Yes that sounds "rewarding" but in a terrible sense haha. You just worked hours to save up funds for armor and weapons around 100k while you controlled armies of troops already wearing and using the same things you're trying so hard to get.

Imagine how campfire stories are, "Oy Capt'n, what's you big dream after we make our spoils of war?"
"Well men, after I get my riches. I'll finally be able to buy that nice set of armor and weapons I've always wanted but could never afford. Now sgt. jimmy, let's promote you to that next tier rank, the one that has the same armor I've been dying to have, that cost me 10k to buy for myself but only 150 denars for you."
Hahah, well, yes. Except that I had 300k+ and needed to equip my men to clear the bandit camps ^^ Didn't even do special things, didn't even have any caravans, only a slow running business and my tax money from 2 castles and the town of Lageta. And selling the occasional loot of course. So now I am the ruler of a kingdom, with still these same fiefs in my possession, have 3 caravans, still that slow running business and was pretty surprised to just learn I net 4k per day :smile: It's somewhat going up and down so I will see what the average is, but in that sense, I don't see a very big problem with somewhat expensive pieces of equipment. Oh and don't forget that I am paying a pretty large sum in wages everyday for garrissons, parties, oh and 3 mercenary clans.
 

Grumpy Hermit

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The entire economy is unbalanced and will surely see a lot of changes over time. And we all have different experiences with the game too.

For me, gold isn't a reason to do quests. The relation boost with people offering higher tier troops is. The gold is usually a pittance anyway, especially after a couple game months.

Battle loot hasn't been worth much of anything either. I farm up desert bandits instead of looters at the start because looters don't have much worth looting, nevermind actually using. They're just easy to autoresolve without deaths, or solo with a bow, only reason people like them. Even in large battles, in my experience, the loot is subpar. I wish battles would actually drop things that were USEFUL for something other than selling(looking at that horse armor some of the lords have), but nope, it's just low-mid tier shields and boots and javelins for me. Loot is depressing to even look at. Especially when you beat a massive army and they somehow don't leave any food behind. At all. When there is barely any food in any towns or villages because the army bought it all.

Thing is, the state of the game right now doesn't matter much. We'll see what it's like when they have more features implemented. I'd much rather see the devs worrying about getting content into the game than trying to balance all the broken parts right now.
 

vadeN

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"I like it because it gives me something to work towards."
You know, this is a perfect example to why there should be an extra setting when starting a new game.

You can have Very Easy, Easy or Realistic map speed.
You can have Very Easy, Easy or Realistic Troop damage.
You can have Very Easy, Easy or Realistic Character damage.

and so on...

Why not add an extra setting for the economy and smithing. This way, players who hates a good game and just want to be miserable can choose "realistic" and those who likes a good game not trying to be a simulation but an actual GAME can have fun in it.

For me, gold isn't a reason to do quests. The relation boost with people offering higher tier troops is.
This is also just an example to why prices should be lower or workshops be more profitable.
Not everyone likes doing quests for money, they might not even like doing quests and just do it to get higher relation with nobles.
 

Maniccc

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Have to disagree. There's a ton of posts on this forum about how players get incredibly rich upon robbing looters. Getting to midgame I already had 5 fully equipped in tier 4-5 companions and 60k purse(bag). Since gold is one of major motivations for players to do quests and use other features, reducing shop prices will make things even worse.

Maybe troops upgrade prices should be highter..
Did you read my post? The problem of people getting super rich by selling loot will disappear if loot is cheap.... Not sure why that's hard to understand.
 

Yangbang

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Did you read my post? The problem of people getting super rich by selling loot will disappear if loot is cheap.... Not sure why that's hard to understand.
+1 farming for looters and bandits shouldn't be the main cash grab. It honestly gets old pretty fast, and sending troops in to mop the mob up is just playing an idle game. Doing quest to farm looters and bandits tho, now there's something to work for. The game needs to incorporate it's own mechanics more to make being in Calradia more immersive.
 

Earth Dragon

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The issues here are definitely those of progression on all fronts. The game stops being as rewarding if you have top level gear Before you even have a mercenary contract but what is the best way to fix that?

This is where EA might bite TW in the butt in the end. There are already a handful (though not many) having mental meltdowns on Reddit since their easy as pie tournament farming was taken from them. The more sensible restrictions and adjustments TW makes, the more folks will meltdown when their favored style of play is nerfed/adjusted.

I feel there may need to be more restrictions on when and how you can level troops. You are all right when it comes to its silly you have an army of men better equipped then yourself. But the sad truth is the answer may be that the max level of troop may need to coincide with Clan level or something similar. Or your level.
Or troops can only be upgraded if you already have a piece of equipment for that tier of weapon and you have to have all that stuff handy.

My point is, many of the viable, practical, balanced solutions may not go over too well with chunks of players.
 

Yangbang

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I feel there may need to be more restrictions on when and how you can level troops. You are all right when it comes to its silly you have an army of men better equipped then yourself. But the sad truth is the answer may be that the max level of troop may need to coincide with Clan level or something similar. Or your level.
Or troops can only be upgraded if you already have a piece of equipment for that tier of weapon and you have to have all that stuff handy.
I like your idea that the player should be directly responsible for providing gear for upgrading units. It'll stimulate the economy and also make "building" an army more viable and immersive. (If we consider that the game nornalizes the over priced weapons and gear).

It should all be broken down into weapon tiers. In order to upgrade troops to their next tier, you need X weapon and armor of that tier for them to upgrade too. And of course lower tier troops can use high tier equipment, but it's a requirement when upgrading that troop to to that tier for their higher skill level gain.

I don't however like the clan upgrade limit. That would ruin the game of being a small band of fancy killers for hire. The only thing clan tier should limit is influence gain and property rights.
 

Aruda

Knight at Arms
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Armor prices need to be reduced and forming caravans workshops or fief improvements should be increased so that we can pay more and have something to do with money.
 

Earth Dragon

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I like your idea that the player should be directly responsible for providing gear for upgrading units. It'll stimulate the economy and also make "building" an army more viable and immersive. (If we consider that the game nornalizes the over priced weapons and gear).

It should all be broken down into weapon tiers. In order to upgrade troops to their next tier, you need X weapon and armor of that tier for them to upgrade too. And of course lower tier troops can use high tier equipment, but it's a requirement when upgrading that troop to to that tier for their higher skill level gain.

I don't however like the clan upgrade limit. That would ruin the game of being a small band of fancy killers for hire. The only thing clan tier should limit is influence gain and property rights.
So nothing is stopping a level x band from staying small. But that was my point. The mitigation preferences are gonna vary, and it’s gonna be hard to keep people happy on this one.

I personally don’t oppose Tier +2 Troop rank restrictions. It’s another thing to build towards and look forward to. Or in the least, that’s the max rank of prisoner willing to sign up
 

Yangbang

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So nothing is stopping a level x band from staying small. But that was my point. The mitigation preferences are gonna vary, and it’s gonna be hard to keep people happy on this one.

I personally don’t oppose Tier +2 Troop rank restrictions. It’s another thing to build towards and look forward to.
Nothing should stop a warband from become a small band of high tier professionals. It would be terrible to have an army of low tier troops that have killed scores of enemies, high and low. But can't upgrade because a game mechanic.

That's why i agree that in order to promote your army, you as the warband leader need to provide such equipment. That would actively give players something to work for, in gaining experience, gaining the funds, and also commanding you troops well enough to not get them all killed.

With that, I think gear return should definitely be a thing. Makes no since why I spent gold on gear, gave it to my soldiers, and then when they died, the gear disappeared. Of course there should be a chance of gear loss as it might've been destroyed when the wearer died. But gear shouldn't just utterly disappearance.
 

Earth Dragon

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But now you are stating why going that route is a bit too complicated with trying to upkeep that at such a mass scale
 

Yangbang

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But now you are stating why going that route is a bit too complicated with trying to upkeep that at such a mass scale
What's hard with having 50 swords for 50 men. We already would need 50 horses for 50 horsemen. My idea would only work of course if weapons and armor are normally priced. Just as horses are priced reasonably.