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Why does TW hate Vlandians?
- Thread starter Bratok
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But consider that vlandia literally has a halberd type from the early 15th century.I hate that it comes down to the one thing we disagree on because I agree with you on everything else here. But to say all other factions have elements of 14-15thc armour is misleading IMO even if it's technically true, because the anachronisms are overall mild. I'm not sure what 14th century armour Battania is meant to have, and whatever it is, it isn't particularly noticeable. Imperial and Aserai armour mostly seems on point, though Aserai fail to match the cultures TW claims they're based on at least they still match the time period. Khuzaits are probably the most anachronistic, but there is barely any historical record of what armour was used in that region in the 600-1100AD time period anyway.
Greathelms, on the other hand, are clearly iconic of the 1200s, firmly high medieval as opposed to the early medieval look Bannerlord is going for (and, overall, successfully executes). I also think that "just because they have done some minor things to dilute the aesthetic means diluting the aesthetic further is fine" is a flawed argument, as this could also justify the inclusion of plate armour, muskets, straight up fantasy gear, etc that you wouldn't necessarily agree with.
When you say "I am pretty sure that William the Conqueror's troops looked much more badass", keep in mind they looked like this:
They weren't wearing great helms, just nasal helms.
More anachronisms aren't necessary to have helmets that look cool or diversify the range. In my opinion, making some Vlandian troops actually use the Italo-Norman helm already in the game (Closed Knight Helmet) and making some painted variants of other helms should be enough. I do also agree with you that some existing helmet models are flawed and so may need adjustment.
Pic related, which already exists in the game and just needs to be used, is a plenty cool aesthetic that fits the time period.
They added a helmet type for the khuzaits which is very clearly from 14-15th century timurid art called Khuzait Battle Crown. Which looks very badass but it is also hella anachronistic
That yellow is rough. Honestly Vlandia's faction colors should have been red and dark gold, with a heavier emphasis on red than gold. When they wear that bright mustard yellow kit it's just nasty lol.
Honestly, William's forces as depicted on the Bayeux tapestry were rather derpy, but whatever, I think TW has taken a good amount of artistic license for the Vlandian's looks in-game. I'd rather say if one goes to the time immediately before the fall of western Rome for inspiration, nearly all armours would be maille and nearly all helmets would have been open-faced, some with aventails. You won't see the use of Lorica Segmentata, like, ever, by that point. Some anachronism is needed for the sack of visual variety and give the game more identity than just maille-wearing dudes poking each other with pointy sticks. Even by the tetrachy the cool-liking L.Segmentata would have been very rare too.
IMO, not specific to the Vlandians, the more 'exotic' forces like the Khuzaits and the Aserai can get different flavours of the mirror armour. Also Southern Empire, I guess. And why only go forward, why not go a little backwards too? As if a world in chaos isn't cause for people to start reminiscent about the past? Muscle cuirass for the Western Empire, I say.
Vlandians can get... surcoats. A litte bit of articulated arm armours. Pauldrons that takes the place of shoulder guards.
IMO, not specific to the Vlandians, the more 'exotic' forces like the Khuzaits and the Aserai can get different flavours of the mirror armour. Also Southern Empire, I guess. And why only go forward, why not go a little backwards too? As if a world in chaos isn't cause for people to start reminiscent about the past? Muscle cuirass for the Western Empire, I say.
Vlandians can get... surcoats. A litte bit of articulated arm armours. Pauldrons that takes the place of shoulder guards.
Thats it, Bannerlord/Calradia is a fantasyworld, not one with garish flickering of magic, but it is not historical, it is a created world with some 'believable' settings. There is some cool looking stuff fits not in our historical periods but also stuff someone could say... why that???
But i agree that 'Vlandia' is not very preferred in the developers thoughts.
My hopes are going really even more and more that Vanilla Bannerlord must be a functional 'good' foundation. And hopefully fine modders (and i think there are) will make something special interesting... even naval warfare!
I don't disagree that vlandians need some better stuff but I disagree that they need pauldrons and articulated arm armours which don't appear before the mid-14th century and would look way more out of place than great helms would. They should get some mail armour or coats of plates with leather arms or legs instead which would be more fitting for their aesthetic.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Some anarchronism yes. But the approach TW took was ultimately... unappealing, to say the least.
And it could just be me, but I think you can do a decent amount with just simple nasal helms, spangenhelms and coifs. Like panted helmets, or phrygian styled helmets. And mail veils.
Honestly though, what matters most to me about Bannerlord's visual vibe is that it just needs to look like an older version of Warband. You add **** like greathelms in, or mirror armour and you straight up kill that vibe.
If I had my way, that **** wouldn't be a thing. At best, some some of atgeir styled halberd would be fine though. Or just really long dane axes.
Which triggers me ........ I've ben holding off playing again the last 18 months, so I have forgotten ........... are there indeed " Dane axes " already ?
I guess for Styrgian, and perhaps Vlandian, high tier " tank " units.
So ......... is there an elite Imperial " Styrgian / Vlandian ( Varangian ) Guard " ?
I would really like that .......... ( and I think " Vlandian Guard " sounds just right )
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HalfMetalJacket
Knight
They have big axes in game. I don’t imagine they care to add a Varangian Guard though, although you can use the Sturgian Heroic Linebreakers I guess.
I agree there, it feels like the game didn't really have an art direction originally and that they just added stuff they thought looked cool with very different aesthetics. So the end product is a mishmash of pieces with differing qualities and styles and doesn't really feel coherent.
I think they could have some 13th century 'bardiches' (I don't like that term but it's what gets the point across). Yes it's still later than the game's period but it doesn't look quite out of place as an early 15th century swiss/german halberd. The aserai already have them anyway which is a weird choice because that style of axe is a pretty european phenomenon at this point in time.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Pretty much the vibe I'm getting.
I think Arabs had those sort of axes too, can't say for sure. But yeah, like bardiches, they might have come later.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Ok, wtf are these TW?
No seriously, did you just lose all sense of art direction? These do not fit in Bannerlord.
No seriously, did you just lose all sense of art direction? These do not fit in Bannerlord.
BigFat
Sergeant
I don't get why they didn't pick something that looked good with their existing armor? They don't even match anything unless it's for armor they have planned and even then it's so bulky it just looks ridiculous.
Goyyyio
Sergeant
out of topic, but your helmet mods look great. You should make a post about them here in the forums. They should be in the native gameI hate the enclosed Vlandian helmets. Quality aside, their designs look so cobbled up and unknightly.
Its like TW could not decide whether they wanted Vlandia to look like old Swadia, or just be Swadia, and so ended up making the worst of both worlds lol. No cool great helms... but also an utterly generic Western European look that is anachronistic.
Painted helmets and more mail coifs is really the way to go for them. Stuff like this would be fantastic:
Jesus that is terrible what the hellOk, wtf are these TW?
No seriously, did you just lose all sense of art direction? These do not fit in Bannerlord.
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Even the new Aserai armour to an extent looks more like something you'd see Ottomans wear.
Before that, it was a part of some other mod pack I made once.
Ah that? Its in the Open Source Armory mod, which I once contributed to.
Before that, it was a part of some other mod pack I made once.
At least the aserai armour doesn't look like it came straight out of World of Warcraft
I have never understood the real reason why (especially in fantasy) armour must look most times clumsy, albeit '''magnificently decorated'' (sometimes). Perhaps had first something to do with sportsfellows like american footballer or (ice) hockey players, both looking more like Hulks. Similar to weapons, a sword or axe looking like 50 pounds in weight is not really combat-ready. Perhaps i was even in past to old as those fantasy started but for M&B it is something 'new'. (shall fit to console?)^^
but for M&B it is something 'new'. (shall fit to console?)^^
