Why developers designed different cultures similar?

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Mr_Cedar

Recruit
When I played the game, I found that the arms of all cultures were so similar that I couldn't find the characteristics of different countries.
Each country, for example, has similar infantry using swords and shields, infantry using two handed weapons, and Knights of unknown significance.
The developers set different heights, faces, various styles of weapons and armor, but in the game I find it difficult to find the differences among the national forces. Of course, the colors of the soldiers' clothes are different.

I mean, why can't we distinguish cultures from soldiers themselves? It's as if sturgia has the strongest soldiers, who are more proficient and HP than any other culture, rather than being bigger and more likely to be killed by archers. All of Byzantine Empire's soldiers have better armor and training, and cataphract can even ignore archer shooting. khuzait's soldiers are better at fighting on hourse than on foot. This is illustrated in the story, but not in the actual game. All the armor is like having clones wear it to distinguish them.

All soldiers have the same attributes. 20-40-60-100-130-160-200-260...I'm tired of it.

In warband, each soldier has different skills, such as more HP, faster running, greater strength, faster weapon waving. Lords with different personalities will do different things. Some will defend their territory, some will attack behind the enemy, and some will gather friends to attack the castle. A well bred Lord will attack the poor farmer less, and two families with bad relations will focus on attacking each other.But in the second generation, it's like Clone Wars. Commanders use the same formation, soldiers have similar armor and weapons, and lords with different personalities can only do the same thing - attacking caravans and players' villages like a swarm of buzzing flies.

We have a Senate Council, an aristocratic parliament, a dictatorship for each country, a personality and preferences for every king and Lord. Why doesn't it work?
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
In warband, each soldier has different skills, such as more HP, faster running, greater strength, faster weapon waving.

Probably because the end result of all those differences were a lot of players grabbing nothing but Swadian knights and F1 F3ing through every single battle.

Edit:
A well bred Lord will attack the poor farmer less, and two families with bad relations will focus on attacking each other.

This was not my experience with Warband. Honorable lords who I was friends with would habitually raid my villages flat. If bad relations caused WB AI lords to go after me more often, I never noticed in well over a thousand hours of playing.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Probably because the end result of all those differences were a lot of players grabbing nothing but Swadian knights and F1 F3ing through every single battle.
If someone wants to play that way then why not? I find that playing different cultures is the way to go in WB and I've done everyone of them. My most favorite was Rhodoks followed closely by Nords. I found Swadia to be fun to a certain point but after getting 50+ Swadian knights it's boring.

This was not my experience with Warband. Honorable lords who I was friends with would habitually raid my villages flat. If bad relations caused WB AI lords to go after me more often, I never noticed in well over a thousand hours of playing.
There were differences in how lords played, but I do know the player seemed to be targeted a lot more than anyone else, But there were lords who wanted to go to war and some who stayed at home much of the time.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
If someone wants to play that way then why not?

Just to be clear: nothing is wrong with a player grabbing nothing but Swadian knights. What was wrong was that it was one of the best ways to win the game, hands down. That was the ultimate result of the snaggle-toothed troop trees.

There were differences in how lords played, but I do know the player seemed to be targeted a lot more than anyone else, But there were lords who wanted to go to war and some who stayed at home much of the time.

Yeah, martial lords tended to attack things but that was one of the few places their personalities seemed to matter. I just see people constantly saying that honorable lords in WB wouldn't raid -- or raided less -- and in my experience it wasn't true. The worst was when we were friends though:
"Oh nice to see you!"
my village burning in the background
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Just to be clear: nothing is wrong with a player grabbing nothing but Swadian knights. What was wrong was that it was one of the best ways to win the game, hands down. That was the ultimate result of the snaggle-toothed troop trees.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that people that really want to play the game more than once will try different factions not because they're easier but because they're different, for example playing as Khergit was damn hard when trying to siege a city but crazy fun in the field.
Yeah, martial lords tended to attack things but that was one of the few places their personalities seemed to matter. I just see people constantly saying that honorable lords in WB wouldn't raid -- or raided less -- and in my experience it wasn't true. The worst was when we were friends though:
"Oh nice to see you!"
my village burning in the background
With friends like that who needs enemies. :iamamoron:
 

Earth Dragon

Sergeant
The loadouts of the rosters were more different 7 months ago.

Then people *****ed

Now they’re loadouts are pretty much the same. Caved to pressure or failed experiment: you choose
 

Cabell

Recruit
This was not my experience with Warband. Honorable lords who I was friends with would habitually raid my villages flat. If bad relations caused WB AI lords to go after me more often, I never noticed in well over a thousand hours of playing.

I don't think I noticed this either in Warband, but I feel like it did happen in Viking Conquest. Not sure if that was just my imagination or something Brytenwalda added.
 
I seriously wished Iron Flesh was actually a thing. And maybe some other stats too, like Scouting, Engineering, Roguery, etc to add bonuses to actions. That way we could have even more difference in different troop types. Like Empire armies can be excel at building things, while Battanians can shine more in raiding or scouting.

Hell, I wished different troops had different perks. No chance of that now though.

Probably because the end result of all those differences were a lot of players grabbing nothing but Swadian knights and F1 F3ing through every single battle.
I feel like if the nobles system existed in Warband, that sort of thing wouldn't happen as much. Swadian Knights and Huscarls weren't quite inaccessible enough to make up for how strong they are. All other troops kind of existed in a sort of equilibrium with each other, despite what people say. Yes, I believe Sarranid Guards can be absolutely useful and aren't as **** as people make them out to be.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
As to the "Grab All the Swadian Knights" -thats fine - if people want to play out an easier blitzkrieg style game -thats on them. I like that some cultures are inherently dominant ingame- as thats how real life is! For instance im playing Total War Empire (darthmod) right now and decided to try my hand at global domination as the Cherokee peoples - of course i dont want them to be as powerful as the English or French -thats part of the fun. Deciding how to disrupt the power structure as a less developed peoples is fun especially if they feel distinct in their behaviours and troop trees. This whole "lets make everybody equal" garbage is really a bad trend in recent game design.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I have the feeling that devs have not still invested much time on balancing troop trees and this is ok for now. This task is better to be done after balancing generic stats like armor efficiency and fixing units AI.

Troop trees are maybe less unique between factions compared to Warband, but this is also something related to Bannerlord having much more units per troop tree. On the other hand, in Bannerlord all factions are not the same as some people could say and this will be more evident once all kind of units get balanced.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Modders are the only ones who care about the game. Thank god there's troop variety mods.

Modders also usually have 0 insight into what makes a game overall balanced for many different types of gamers, and instead, just change the game according to their arbitrary preference -- which in turn, gets praise from some people who share that preference, but shunned by others.

There's a reason why vanilla is 'vanilla' -- it's a starting point that needs to reasonably appeal to many different people without any protruding problems. Without understanding this fact, and giving blind praise to modders while disrespecting the developers who made everything possible in the first place, is simply wrong.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
As to the "Grab All the Swadian Knights" -thats fine - if people want to play out an easier blitzkrieg style game -thats on them. I like that some cultures are inherently dominant ingame- as thats how real life is!

Good on you if you like that, but most people are pretty damned mad about the Khuzaits. Once the Khuzaits are dealt with, they'll be mad about the Battanians.

Modders also usually have 0 insight into what makes a game overall balanced for many different types of gamers, and instead, just change the game according to their arbitrary preference -- which in turn, gets praise from some people who share that preference, but shunned by others.

Don't confuse "don't care" with "don't know." I will absolutely agree with you that many mods are wildly unbalanced in accord with the modder's preferences. That is why I mostly gave up on troop tree mods; there were a lot of them that consisted of changes which led to very negative impacts elsewhere (basically all the Sturgia overhauls that made them into a 90-100% foot faction). When I told one author that it hurt Sturgia in autocalc, back when the cav bonus was 30%, he was clear that he didn't care. The mod was about him having fun with a no-cav faction and the rest didn't matter.

It is the same for other mods: the infinite money land ownership one, garrison troops never starving, AI only targeting border settlements, high-tier troops never dying in autocalc, etc. They know the effect their mod has on balancing but don't really care.
 
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stevehoos

Banned
People have no idea what the M&B modding community made out of that game, none. The ignorance is profound. The only difference between a good modder and a developer is employment.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
People have no idea what the M&B modding community made out of that game, none. The ignorance is profound. The only difference between a good modder and a developer is employment.
Your not making a distinction between a hired gun Dev who works on base level things and base engine coder. Do you honestly think any of these modders could design these models to fight with this combat system en masse as this game does on their own without the base engine code that lies underneath? Show me.
 

stevehoos

Banned
Your not making a distinction between a hired gun Dev who works on base level things and base engine coder. Do you honestly think any of these modders could design these models to fight with this combat system en masse as this game does on their own without the base engine code that lies underneath? Show me.

What do you think modders aspire to be?

Go look at DE trooper's script work on medieval Kingdoms for Atilla Total War? The lead project DEV for Thrones of Britannia (Jack Lusted) was a modder on the forum for years before he was hired. My brother in law worked for Terminal Reality in Dallas Texas, he designed parts of the Ghost Busters game for X-box; he was a modder. I have been modding games for close to 20 years, you have no clue what you are talking about.
 
I have the feeling that devs have not still invested much time on balancing troop trees and this is ok for now. This task is better to be done after balancing generic stats like armor efficiency and fixing units AI.

Troop trees are maybe less unique between factions compared to Warband, but this is also something related to Bannerlord having much more units per troop tree. On the other hand, in Bannerlord all factions are not the same as some people could say and this will be more evident once all kind of units get balanced.
I wish they didn't **** with the armour values and troop trees in their last update then.

Modders also usually have 0 insight into what makes a game overall balanced for many different types of gamers, and instead, just change the game according to their arbitrary preference -- which in turn, gets praise from some people who share that preference, but shunned by others.

There's a reason why vanilla is 'vanilla' -- it's a starting point that needs to reasonably appeal to many different people without any protruding problems. Without understanding this fact, and giving blind praise to modders while disrespecting the developers who made everything possible in the first place, is simply wrong.
With how TW balanced their vanilla troops, I don't feel like they themselves quite realise the effects themselves. Did they really think giving the Khuzaits access to tier 2 horse archers, while also letting them 'cheat' with upgrades wouldn't result in their dominance? And how does the Battanian roster even appeal to anyone, aside from their noble tree? And what's the use of minor factions.

Then again, what I did to my Khuzaits is hardly any better. But alas, the idea of a horse horde amuses me.

I'll say though that I thank TW for making things as simple to modify as they did and for providing the game to begin with. I would not have been able shape the game to my preferences and share it if it weren't for them. It is dumb to lump responsibility on fixing their game on random modders.
 

babelfisch

Squire
What do you think modders aspire to be?

Go look at DE trooper's script work on medieval Kingdoms for Atilla Total War? The lead project DEV for Thrones of Britannia (Jack Lusted) was a modder on the forum for years before he was hired. My brother in law worked for Terminal Reality in Dallas Texas, he designed parts of the Ghost Busters game for X-box; he was a modder. I have been modding games for close to 20 years, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Hey, you forgot to mention Darth and the CS guys. That's about it though. The 100000 other modders are just very untalented and busy creating skimpy armours for Skyrim. ?
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Did they really think giving the Khuzaits access to tier 2 horse archers, while also letting them 'cheat' with upgrades wouldn't result in their dominance?

Remember that on release, it was usually one of the Imperial factions that snowballed and they had almost no cav in their parties. So the net effect of giving the Khuzaits tier 2 horse archers and free horses for them was "The Empire wins."
 
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