Why Bannerlord Voting is Broken, and How To Fix It

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five bucks

Knight at Arms
The voting system is almost pointless, because the lords almost always vote the same as each other, so even by spending 150 Influence you can't change the outcome.

To test, I set my relation to 0 with every clan in Vlandia, and proposed every policy:
Senate - For: 4*20i, 4*60i, against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Noble Retinues - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Hunting Rights - For: 5*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Bailiffs - For: 8*20i. Against: derthert*60 Not swayable.
Grazing Rights - For: none. Against: derthert*20 Swayable, but not interesting.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but not interesting.
Marshals - For: 4*20i, 5*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 3+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Cantons - For: none. Against: 3*20 Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: none. Against: 4+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 1*20i, derthert*105. Against: 8*20i Swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: none. Against: derthert*60 Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 2*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: 1*20i, derthert*105i. Against: 8*20 Not swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but boring.
State Monopolies - For: 1*20i, derthert* 105i. Against: 3*20i Swayable.
Magistrates - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert*42i. Swayable, but boring.
Crown Duty - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
War Tax - 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i. Not swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: derthert*42i. Against: none. swayable, but not interesting.
Military Coronae - For: 4*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 - not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: 6+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8*20 - not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: 3+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
For some reason, Ecarand voted in favour of pro-royal policies, unlike all the other lords.
26 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 8 were changeable due to no opposition. 2 were changeable by spending 150 influence.


I reloaded the save, set relation to 100 with all clans, and tested again:
Senate - for: 2*20, 6*60, 1*150. Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Noble Retinues - for: 1*20, 3*60, 5*150, Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Hunting Rights - for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Bailiffs - for: for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*60. not swayable.
Grazing Rights - for: 0. against: derthert*20. swayable, but boring.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none. not swayable.
Marshals -for: 1*20, 7*60, 1*105. against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 6+derthert*20 not swayable.
Cantons - For: 0. Against: 6. Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: 0. Against: derthert+4. Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 2. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: 0. Against: derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
State Monopolies - For: derthert+1. Against: 3. Swayable.
Magistrates - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Crown Duty - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
War Tax - For: Derthert+1. Against: 7. Swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: Derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Military Coronae - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: Derthert+6. Not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: Derthert+3. Not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
28 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 4 were changeable due to no opposition. 5 were changeable by spending 150 influence.

These tests confirm nobles usually vote the same, and seem to show that:
  • The AI being a noble or vassal strongly effects their support for policies that strengthen rulers or vassals.
  • Good relations with the AI barely changes whether they will support a vote or not. Even 100 relations!
  • War/peace votes are mainly decided by the usual war/peace calculation.
  • Traits have little or no effect on decisions.
How to fix this? Here is my suggestion for a simple but effective formula.



Nobles now have preferences for certain votes. For example:

Daring lords like voting for War and Military Coronae, and dislike voting for Peace and Royal Commissions.
Honest lords like voting for Bailiffs, and dislike voting for Debasement of the Currency.
Cruel lords like voting for Serfdom, and dislike voting for Trial by Jury.
Rulers like voting for Royal Commissions, and dislike voting for Tribunes of the People.

Feudal Inheritance: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Castle Charters: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Senate: Calculating like, Daring dislike.
Grazing Rights: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Sacred Majesty: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Grants for Veterans: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Cantons: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Lawspeakers: Calculating like, Impulsive dislike.
Royal Privilege: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Council of the Commons: Calculating like, Closefisted dislike.
Marshals: Daring like, Rulers dislike.
Peerage: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Road Tolls: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Precarial Land Tenure: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Tax: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
State Monopolies: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Magistrates: Honest like, Devious dislike.
Debasement of the Currency: Rulers like, Honest dislike.
Crown Duty: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Imperial Towns: Rulers like, Calculating dislike.
Royal Commissions: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Royal Guard: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
War Tax: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
King's Mercenaries: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Lords' Privy Council: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Military Coronae: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Serfdom: Cruel like, Merciful dislike.
Noble Retinues: Daring like, Calculating dislike.
Bailiffs: Honest like, Closefisted dislike.
Hunting Rights: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Charter of Liberties: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Citizenship: Merciful like, Cautious dislike.
Forgiveness of Debts: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Tribunes of the People: Merciful like, Rulers dislike.
Trial by Jury: Merciful like, Cruel dislike.

Declare War: Daring like, Cautious dislike.
Make Peace being paid tribute: Cautious like, Daring dislike.
Make Peace paying tribute: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.

The formula is calculated like this:
  • If the noble likes the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble dislikes the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has 40+ relations with the person calling the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble has 70+ relations with the person calling the vote, +2 support.
  • If the noble has -40 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has -70 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -2 support.
  • In a war/peace vote, +1 or -1 support based on what the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks the best course of action is.
Add up the support, and that determines how much Influence each AI will spend to support or oppose the vote.

As a simple example, if you propose Debasement of Currency, and a noble has 70 relations with you (+2 support), but he is Honest and dislikes the policy (-1 support), that adds up to +1 support, so he will spend 20 influence in favour of the policy.

Scenario A1: I have 0 relation with everyone. I call a vote on Forgiveness of Debts - Generous nobles like it, Closefisted dislike it.
Derthert - Abstain.
Aldric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Abstain.
Eleduran - Abstain.
Hecard - Generous (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
120 opposition, 20 support.
This trait variation already makes things better than the existing formulas, because some lords abstaining or supporting the vote means I can change it by spending 150 Influence, where I could not before.

Scenario A2: I have 40 relation with all clan leaders except Aldric, who I have -70 relation with. Same vote.
Derthert - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Aldric - Awful relations (-2). Closefisted (-1). 150 opposition.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Hecard - Good relations (+1). Generous (+1). 60 support.
Vartin - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ecarand - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Voleric - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
150 opposition, 120 support.
Now relations actually matter too. Aldric hating me is enough to tip the vote over the edge, so I will have to spend 60 Influence to change the outcome.

Scenario B1: I am ruler of Vlandia, and am trying to pass Precarial Land Tenure, which Vassals dislike. I have 0 relation with my vassals.
Aldric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
180 opposition, 0 support.
I cannot convince my vassals to pass this policy, because none of them care about me and it is bad for their interests.

Scenario B2: Same as above, except I have 40 relation with half of my vassals.
Aldric - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
100 opposition, 0 support.
I can push this policy through by spending 150 influence. My friendly vassals like me enough to keep their mouths shut.

Scenario C: Vote for war with Southern Empire, which the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks is a bad idea. I have 40 relation with everyone.
Derthert - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Aldric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Varmund - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Hecard - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Voleric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
60 support, 60 opposition.
The council is evenly split, and you only need to spend 20 influence to convince them war is a good idea here. Normally, they would see the war as a bad idea and not vote for it, but the player's good relations plus some prodding can convince them to go against their judgement.

This formula would change it so that having good Relations with lords will actually help you! The AI's Personality Traits will actually make a gameplay difference. Influence will matter more, and the player will actually be able to change the outcome of many more votes.
 
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MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I don´t even know why we have relations in the game, it feels like that they´re not worth anything at all.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
🤡 No voting only do what I say would be ideal.🤡 Honk honk it's the sarcasm and irony clowns back in action so you don't take the post too seriusly and get all moody about, honk honk ****ing honk!
Touching another man's clowns like that..... people nowadays....
 
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Delinard

Sergeant at Arms
WBNW
Relations in Warband was pretty big, enemy vassals who you are friends with never attacked you on the map or raided your villages, it also made it much easier to convince them to join your faction. Fellow friendly vassals are more likely to respond to your marshal summons or defend your fiefs if they are attacked. They were more likely to vote for you or vote with your decisions.
 

AJAJP_Juan

Knight at Arms
Relations in Warband was pretty big, enemy vassals who you are friends with never attacked you on the map or raided your villages (snip) Fellow friendly vassals are more likely to respond to your marshal summons or defend your fiefs if they are attacked.

Not true, relation has no effect whatsoever on lord actions, neither their condition (upstanding, marshal, etc)

it also made it much easier to convince them to join your faction.

It was a factor, but not the biggest, that was the fief factor (fiefless? Amount of free fiefs?), and even then 100 relation, who would be safer from a military standpoint, more comfortable relation wise and approved your claim (uphold your rights, etc) could fail.
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
Yup. Another meaningless "feature".

But with potential!

Influence feels like a waste, only good for blocking votes and creating immense armies. It's not without cause that a lot of people here suddenly align themselves with the worst dictators in history, wanting absolute control.

Together with Relations and character traits it feels like a wasted opportunity because the systems are just.. there.
Sure, they probably have their role and do their thing, in the same way everyone explains to me that spiders have a reason to be on this planet (still not sold on that). They add little to no value to me.

Five Bucks's suggestion seems like an elegant way to tie these three features together and make practical use of them.
 

BigFat

Veteran
I get a chuckle every time there is a vote for a policy or war and it's every lord vs the leader
 

Earth Dragon

Sergeant
I’m not sure what the criteria is with these votes as I am not experiencing these same percentages of what I can influence. Starting and Stopping wars seems to be the worst culprit, but fief assignment, policy implementation and others seem to be very split amongst the clans.

Turning this game into dictatorships would take me completely out of it, so I hope they don’t scrap the system because a handful of people who have played this game for too many hours just want to circumvent all the systems at this point because they feel entitled to a streamline playthrough: that’s what mods are for.
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
I’m not sure what the criteria is with these votes as I am not experiencing these same percentages of what I can influence. Starting and Stopping wars seems to be the worst culprit, but fief assignment, policy implementation and others seem to be very split amongst the clans.

Turning this game into dictatorships would take me completely out of it, so I hope they don’t scrap the system because a handful of people who have played this game for too many hours just want to circumvent all the systems at this point because they feel entitled to a streamline playthrough: that’s what mods are for.
This thread advocates for the opposite of that.

A fairer democracy which can be influenced by having good relations with lords.

Which makes sense. If your lords love you, they'll favor your decisions. If they dislike you, they'll do all they can to stop you.

I am not a fan of the current voting system. Because I know that having war with 4 powerful kingdoms at the same time and then proposing peace at a huge cost to one is not beneficial for our kingdom.
But I need 1500 influence to stop them from making foolish decisions.

The AI hates snowballing. So much so in fact that they'll do anything to cause a stalemate in Calradia. If a kingdom progresses to much, they'll go to war. If a kingdom is losing to much, they'll vote for peace. There can be no winner, in the world of the AI, only participants. Artificially prolonging the game at the cost of common sense.
 

Delinard

Sergeant at Arms
WBNW
Not true, relation has no effect whatsoever on lord actions, neither their condition (upstanding, marshal, etc)



It was a factor, but not the biggest, that was the fief factor (fiefless? Amount of free fiefs?), and even then 100 relation, who would be safer from a military standpoint, more comfortable relation wise and approved your claim (uphold your rights, etc) could fail.
Open warband, use cheats to increase relations to like 100 with a normal lord, be his enemy and also be weaker then him. Watch him ignore you instead of instantly locking in on you on sight.

And the relations was a big factor because you could use the option "Can I convince you to support me instead?" when asking him about voting, and if your relation is high, he was very likely to accept.
 
This thread advocates for the opposite of that.

A fairer democracy which can be influenced by having good relations with lords.

Which makes sense. If your lords love you, they'll favor your decisions. If they dislike you, they'll do all they can to stop you.

I am not a fan of the current voting system. Because I know that having war with 4 powerful kingdoms at the same time and then proposing peace at a huge cost to one is not beneficial for our kingdom.
But I need 1500 influence to stop them from making foolish decisions.

The AI hates snowballing. So much so in fact that they'll do anything to cause a stalemate in Calradia. If a kingdom progresses to much, they'll go to war. If a kingdom is losing to much, they'll vote for peace. There can be no winner, in the world of the AI, only participants. Artificially prolonging the game at the cost of common sense.

+1

It all boils down to their bandaid approach to solving snowballing. Constant war + never ending flow of fresh bodies.

Devs have not displayed any creativity in solving this issue or any issue really.
 

lukethisup

Regular
This thread advocates for the opposite of that.

A fairer democracy which can be influenced by having good relations with lords.

Which makes sense. If your lords love you, they'll favor your decisions. If they dislike you, they'll do all they can to stop you.

I am not a fan of the current voting system. Because I know that having war with 4 powerful kingdoms at the same time and then proposing peace at a huge cost to one is not beneficial for our kingdom.
But I need 1500 influence to stop them from making foolish decisions.

The AI hates snowballing. So much so in fact that they'll do anything to cause a stalemate in Calradia. If a kingdom progresses to much, they'll go to war. If a kingdom is losing to much, they'll vote for peace. There can be no winner, in the world of the AI, only participants. Artificially prolonging the game at the cost of common sense.
Another feature that has tons of potential but will likely stay Talewatered down.

"Wide as an ocean, Deep as a puddle" comes to mind too often with the 'cool' new mechanics added from warband to bannerlord.
 

SanicK

Squire
The voting system is almost pointless, because the lords almost always vote the same as each other, so even by spending 150 Influence you can't change the outcome.

To test, I set my relation to 0 with every clan in Vlandia, and proposed every policy:
Senate - For: 4*20i, 4*60i, against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Noble Retinues - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Hunting Rights - For: 5*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Bailiffs - For: 8*20i. Against: derthert*60 Not swayable.
Grazing Rights - For: none. Against: derthert*20 Swayable, but not interesting.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but not interesting.
Marshals - For: 4*20i, 5*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 3+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Cantons - For: none. Against: 3*20 Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: none. Against: 4+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 1*20i, derthert*105. Against: 8*20i Swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: none. Against: derthert*60 Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 2*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: 1*20i, derthert*105i. Against: 8*20 Not swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but boring.
State Monopolies - For: 1*20i, derthert* 105i. Against: 3*20i Swayable.
Magistrates - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert*42i. Swayable, but boring.
Crown Duty - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
War Tax - 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i. Not swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: derthert*42i. Against: none. swayable, but not interesting.
Military Coronae - For: 4*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 - not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: 6+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8*20 - not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: 3+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
For some reason, Ecarand voted in favour of pro-royal policies, unlike all the other lords.
26 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 8 were changeable due to no opposition. 2 were changeable by spending 150 influence.


I reloaded the save, set relation to 100 with all clans, and tested again:
Senate - for: 2*20, 6*60, 1*150. Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Noble Retinues - for: 1*20, 3*60, 5*150, Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Hunting Rights - for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Bailiffs - for: for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*60. not swayable.
Grazing Rights - for: 0. against: derthert*20. swayable, but boring.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none. not swayable.
Marshals -for: 1*20, 7*60, 1*105. against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 6+derthert*20 not swayable.
Cantons - For: 0. Against: 6. Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: 0. Against: derthert+4. Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 2. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: 0. Against: derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
State Monopolies - For: derthert+1. Against: 3. Swayable.
Magistrates - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Crown Duty - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
War Tax - For: Derthert+1. Against: 7. Swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: Derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Military Coronae - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: Derthert+6. Not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: Derthert+3. Not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
28 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 4 were changeable due to no opposition. 5 were changeable by spending 150 influence.

These tests confirm nobles usually vote the same, and seem to show that:
  • The AI being a noble or vassal strongly effects their support for policies that strengthen rulers or vassals.
  • Good relations with the AI barely changes whether they will support a vote or not. Even 100 relations!
  • War/peace votes are mainly decided by the usual war/peace calculation.
  • Traits have little or no effect on decisions.
How to fix this? Here is my suggestion for a simple but effective formula.



Nobles now have preferences for certain votes. For example:

Daring lords like voting for War and Military Coronae, and dislike voting for Peace and Royal Commissions.
Honest lords like voting for Bailiffs, and dislike voting for Debasement of the Currency.
Cruel lords like voting for Serfdom, and dislike voting for Trial by Jury.
Rulers like voting for Royal Commissions, and dislike voting for Tribunes of the People.

Feudal Inheritance: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Castle Charters: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Senate: Calculating like, Daring dislike.
Grazing Rights: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Sacred Majesty: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Grants for Veterans: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Cantons: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Lawspeakers: Calculating like, Impulsive dislike.
Royal Privilege: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Council of the Commons: Calculating like, Closefisted dislike.
Marshals: Daring like, Rulers dislike.
Peerage: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Road Tolls: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Precarial Land Tenure: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Tax: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
State Monopolies: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Magistrates: Honest like, Devious dislike.
Debasement of the Currency: Rulers like, Honest dislike.
Crown Duty: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Imperial Towns: Rulers like, Calculating dislike.
Royal Commissions: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Royal Guard: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
War Tax: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
King's Mercenaries: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Lords' Privy Council: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Military Coronae: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Serfdom: Cruel like, Merciful dislike.
Noble Retinues: Daring like, Calculating dislike.
Bailiffs: Honest like, Closefisted dislike.
Hunting Rights: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Charter of Liberties: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Citizenship: Merciful like, Cautious dislike.
Forgiveness of Debts: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Tribunes of the People: Merciful like, Rulers dislike.
Trial by Jury: Merciful like, Cruel dislike.

Declare War: Daring like, Cautious dislike.
Make Peace being paid tribute: Cautious like, Daring dislike.
Make Peace paying tribute: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.

The formula is calculated like this:
  • If the noble likes the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble dislikes the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has 40+ relations with the person calling the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble has 70+ relations with the person calling the vote, +2 support.
  • If the noble has -40 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has -70 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -2 support.
  • In a war/peace vote, +1 or -1 support based on what the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks the best course of action is.
Add up the support, and that determines how much Influence each AI will spend to support or oppose the vote.

As a simple example, if you propose Debasement of Currency, and a noble has 70 relations with you (+2 support), but he is Honest and dislikes the policy (-1 support), that adds up to +1 support, so he will spend 20 influence in favour of the policy.

Scenario A1: I have 0 relation with everyone. I call a vote on Forgiveness of Debts - Generous nobles like it, Closefisted dislike it.
Derthert - Abstain.
Aldric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Abstain.
Eleduran - Abstain.
Hecard - Generous (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
120 opposition, 20 support.
This trait variation already makes things better than the existing formulas, because some lords abstaining or supporting the vote means I can change it by spending 150 Influence, where I could not before.

Scenario A2: I have 40 relation with all clan leaders except Aldric, who I have -70 relation with. Same vote.
Derthert - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Aldric - Awful relations (-2). Closefisted (-1). 150 opposition.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Hecard - Good relations (+1). Generous (+1). 60 support.
Vartin - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ecarand - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Voleric - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
150 opposition, 120 support.
Now relations actually matter too. Aldric hating me is enough to tip the vote over the edge, so I will have to spend 60 Influence to change the outcome.

Scenario B1: I am ruler of Vlandia, and am trying to pass Precarial Land Tenure, which Vassals dislike. I have 0 relation with my vassals.
Aldric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
180 opposition, 0 support.
I cannot convince my vassals to pass this policy, because none of them care about me and it is bad for their interests.

Scenario B2: Same as above, except I have 40 relation with half of my vassals.
Aldric - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
100 opposition, 0 support.
I can push this policy through by spending 150 influence. My friendly vassals like me enough to keep their mouths shut.

Scenario C: Vote for war with Southern Empire, which the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks is a bad idea. I have 40 relation with everyone.
Derthert - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Aldric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Varmund - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Hecard - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Voleric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
60 support, 60 opposition.
The council is evenly split, and you only need to spend 20 influence to convince them war is a good idea here. Normally, they would see the war as a bad idea and not vote for it, but the player's good relations plus some prodding can convince them to go against their judgement.

This formula would change it so that having good Relations with lords will actually help you! The AI's Personality Traits will actually make a gameplay difference. Influence will matter more, and the player will actually be able to change the outcome of many more votes.
+1000.
 

kreamy

Sergeant
The voting system is almost pointless, because the lords almost always vote the same as each other, so even by spending 150 Influence you can't change the outcome.

To test, I set my relation to 0 with every clan in Vlandia, and proposed every policy:
Senate - For: 4*20i, 4*60i, against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Noble Retinues - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Hunting Rights - For: 5*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Bailiffs - For: 8*20i. Against: derthert*60 Not swayable.
Grazing Rights - For: none. Against: derthert*20 Swayable, but not interesting.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but not interesting.
Marshals - For: 4*20i, 5*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 3+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Cantons - For: none. Against: 3*20 Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: none. Against: 4+derthert*20 Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 1*20i, derthert*105. Against: 8*20i Swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: none. Against: derthert*60 Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 2*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 3*20i, 6*60i. Against: derthert*105 Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: 1*20i, derthert*105i. Against: 8*20 Not swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert*20i. Against: none Swayable, but boring.
State Monopolies - For: 1*20i, derthert* 105i. Against: 3*20i Swayable.
Magistrates - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert*42i. Swayable, but boring.
Crown Duty - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i Not swayable.
War Tax - 1+derthert*20i. Against: 8*20i. Not swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: derthert*42i. Against: none. swayable, but not interesting.
Military Coronae - For: 4*20i, 4*60i. Against: derthert*105 - not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: 6+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8*20 - not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: derthert*20 - swayable, but not interesting.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: 3+derthert*20 - not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
For some reason, Ecarand voted in favour of pro-royal policies, unlike all the other lords.
26 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 8 were changeable due to no opposition. 2 were changeable by spending 150 influence.


I reloaded the save, set relation to 100 with all clans, and tested again:
Senate - for: 2*20, 6*60, 1*150. Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Noble Retinues - for: 1*20, 3*60, 5*150, Against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Hunting Rights - for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Bailiffs - for: for: 1*20, 8*60, against: derthert*60. not swayable.
Grazing Rights - for: 0. against: derthert*20. swayable, but boring.
Sacred Majesty - For: derthert*20i. Against: none. not swayable.
Marshals -for: 1*20, 7*60, 1*105. against: derthert*105. not swayable.
Land Grants for Veterans - For: none. Against: 6+derthert*20 not swayable.
Cantons - For: 0. Against: 6. Not swayable.
Lawspeakers - For: 0. Against: derthert+4. Not swayable.
Royal Privilege - For: 2. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Council of the Commons - For: 0. Against: derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Peerage - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Road Tolls - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Serfdom - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Lords' Privy Council - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Precarial Land Tenure - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Swayable.
Land Tax - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
State Monopolies - For: derthert+1. Against: 3. Swayable.
Magistrates - For: derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Debasement of the Currency - For: derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Crown Duty - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Imperial Towns - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Commissions - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Royal Guard - For: Derthert+1. Against: 8. Not swayable.
War Tax - For: Derthert+1. Against: 7. Swayable.
King's Mercenaries - For: Derthert+1. Against: 0. Not swayable.
Military Coronae - For: 9. Against: derthert. Not swayable.
Charter of Liberties - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable.
Citizenship - For: 0. Against: Derthert+6. Not swayable.
Forgiveness of Debts - For: 0. Against: 8. Not swayable.
Tribunes of the People - For: 0. Against: Derthert. Swayable, but boring.
Trial by Jury - For: 0. Against: Derthert+3. Not swayable.
Declare War on Khuzait - For: For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare War on Battania - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Declare Peace with Northern Empire - For: 0. Against: Derthert+9. Not swayable.
Every handful of votes, I would reload the save, to ensure clans had enough influence to vote and in case there was a "vote exhaustion" factor.
28 of the votes could not be changed by the player. 4 were changeable due to no opposition. 5 were changeable by spending 150 influence.

These tests confirm nobles usually vote the same, and seem to show that:
  • The AI being a noble or vassal strongly effects their support for policies that strengthen rulers or vassals.
  • Good relations with the AI barely changes whether they will support a vote or not. Even 100 relations!
  • War/peace votes are mainly decided by the usual war/peace calculation.
  • Traits have little or no effect on decisions.
How to fix this? Here is my suggestion for a simple but effective formula.



Nobles now have preferences for certain votes. For example:

Daring lords like voting for War and Military Coronae, and dislike voting for Peace and Royal Commissions.
Honest lords like voting for Bailiffs, and dislike voting for Debasement of the Currency.
Cruel lords like voting for Serfdom, and dislike voting for Trial by Jury.
Rulers like voting for Royal Commissions, and dislike voting for Tribunes of the People.

Feudal Inheritance: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Castle Charters: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Senate: Calculating like, Daring dislike.
Grazing Rights: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Sacred Majesty: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Grants for Veterans: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Cantons: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Lawspeakers: Calculating like, Impulsive dislike.
Royal Privilege: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Council of the Commons: Calculating like, Closefisted dislike.
Marshals: Daring like, Rulers dislike.
Peerage: Vassals like, Rulers dislike.
Road Tolls: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Precarial Land Tenure: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
Land Tax: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
State Monopolies: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Magistrates: Honest like, Devious dislike.
Debasement of the Currency: Rulers like, Honest dislike.
Crown Duty: Rulers like, Closefisted dislike.
Imperial Towns: Rulers like, Calculating dislike.
Royal Commissions: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Royal Guard: Rulers like, Vassals dislike.
War Tax: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
King's Mercenaries: Rulers like, Daring dislike.
Lords' Privy Council: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Military Coronae: Daring like, Closefisted dislike.
Serfdom: Cruel like, Merciful dislike.
Noble Retinues: Daring like, Calculating dislike.
Bailiffs: Honest like, Closefisted dislike.
Hunting Rights: Closefisted like, Generous dislike.
Charter of Liberties: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.
Citizenship: Merciful like, Cautious dislike.
Forgiveness of Debts: Generous like, Closefisted dislike.
Tribunes of the People: Merciful like, Rulers dislike.
Trial by Jury: Merciful like, Cruel dislike.

Declare War: Daring like, Cautious dislike.
Make Peace being paid tribute: Cautious like, Daring dislike.
Make Peace paying tribute: Cautious like, Closefisted dislike.

The formula is calculated like this:
  • If the noble likes the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble dislikes the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has 40+ relations with the person calling the vote, +1 support.
  • If the noble has 70+ relations with the person calling the vote, +2 support.
  • If the noble has -40 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -1 support.
  • If the noble has -70 or less relations with the person calling the vote, -2 support.
  • In a war/peace vote, +1 or -1 support based on what the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks the best course of action is.
Add up the support, and that determines how much Influence each AI will spend to support or oppose the vote.

As a simple example, if you propose Debasement of Currency, and a noble has 70 relations with you (+2 support), but he is Honest and dislikes the policy (-1 support), that adds up to +1 support, so he will spend 20 influence in favour of the policy.

Scenario A1: I have 0 relation with everyone. I call a vote on Forgiveness of Debts - Generous nobles like it, Closefisted dislike it.
Derthert - Abstain.
Aldric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Abstain.
Eleduran - Abstain.
Hecard - Generous (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Closefisted (-1). 20 opposition.
120 opposition, 20 support.
This trait variation already makes things better than the existing formulas, because some lords abstaining or supporting the vote means I can change it by spending 150 Influence, where I could not before.

Scenario A2: I have 40 relation with all clan leaders except Aldric, who I have -70 relation with. Same vote.
Derthert - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Aldric - Awful relations (-2). Closefisted (-1). 150 opposition.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Good relations (+1). 20 support.
Hecard - Good relations (+1). Generous (+1). 60 support.
Vartin - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Ecarand - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
Voleric - Good relations (+1). Closefisted (-1). Abstain.
150 opposition, 120 support.
Now relations actually matter too. Aldric hating me is enough to tip the vote over the edge, so I will have to spend 60 Influence to change the outcome.

Scenario B1: I am ruler of Vlandia, and am trying to pass Precarial Land Tenure, which Vassals dislike. I have 0 relation with my vassals.
Aldric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ingalther - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Varmund - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
180 opposition, 0 support.
I cannot convince my vassals to pass this policy, because none of them care about me and it is bad for their interests.

Scenario B2: Same as above, except I have 40 relation with half of my vassals.
Aldric - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Calatild - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Varmund - Good relations (+1). Vassal (-1). Abstain.
Eleduran - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Hecard - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Vartin - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
Voleric - Vassal (-1). 20 opposition.
100 opposition, 0 support.
I can push this policy through by spending 150 influence. My friendly vassals like me enough to keep their mouths shut.

Scenario C: Vote for war with Southern Empire, which the war/peace calculation algorithm thinks is a bad idea. I have 40 relation with everyone.
Derthert - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Aldric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Calatild - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Ingalther - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Varmund - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Eleduran - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Hecard - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Daring (+1). 20 support.
Vartin - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Cautious (-1). 20 opposition.
Ecarand - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
Voleric - Algorithm opposes war (-1). Good relations (+1). Abstain.
60 support, 60 opposition.
The council is evenly split, and you only need to spend 20 influence to convince them war is a good idea here. Normally, they would see the war as a bad idea and not vote for it, but the player's good relations plus some prodding can convince them to go against their judgement.

This formula would change it so that having good Relations with lords will actually help you! The AI's Personality Traits will actually make a gameplay difference. Influence will matter more, and the player will actually be able to change the outcome of many more votes.
frequency of voting should also be capped, the window for decisions expanded from 40 hours to 100, and influence required to override a similar issue (that was recently voted on) adjusted to compensate (the more frequent a vote, the lesser influence required to override)
 
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