Why are orcs hated? - 1d4chan wiki link

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Kharille

Knight at Arms
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Orc

Was reading this wiki on orcs and I realized that they were pretty advanced:

Tolkien's Orcs are not stupid. They are capable of making weapons (bows, spears, daggers, shields and curved swords), armor (helmets, mail and scale armor), good (if unpleasant) medicine, and are pretty good engineers on top of creating assembly lines; one of the general morals of Tolkien's works is rampant industrialization is a path to evil and/or misfortune, and making Orcs more advanced than other races reflects this.

If so then no wonder they are often the enemy.  Maybe not the same as Warhammer orcs, but there should be similar characteristics.  I think the Hobbit mentions they're pretty smart about making tools.

Doesn't this mean that they're actually smart and people want to play them?
 
Back in the day orcs were hated by pureblood elves and Men of the West because they had flat yellow faces, broad noses and slanted eyes.
In recent interpretations of LotR uruks were reinvented as large, athletic, black-skinned people so that modern mainstream viewers would also get it.
 
Kharille said:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Orc

Was reading this wiki on orcs and I realized that they were pretty advanced:

Tolkien's Orcs are not stupid. They are capable of making weapons (bows, spears, daggers, shields and curved swords), armor (helmets, mail and scale armor), good (if unpleasant) medicine, and are pretty good engineers on top of creating assembly lines; one of the general morals of Tolkien's works is rampant industrialization is a path to evil and/or misfortune, and making Orcs more advanced than other races reflects this.

If so then no wonder they are often the enemy.  Maybe not the same as Warhammer orcs, but there should be similar characteristics.  I think the Hobbit mentions they're pretty smart about making tools.

Doesn't this mean that they're actually smart and people want to play them?

They aren't more advanced than the other races. Not even slightly.
 
Orc manufacturing threatens to outcompete the artisanal workshop economy of men and elves so the latter pursue a protectionist policy of killing every orc they encounter. But the march of industrialization is inevitable.
 
It's pretty much the only card they have left, apart from a racist smear campaign that paints the orcs as inherently evil and corrupt. That's not going to stop Hobald Sackville-Baggins buying packaged pipe-weed in bulk from a grocer if it's cheap, so they resort to violence.
 
Since the joke answers are now out of the way:

It's mostly because they were almost universally under Morgoth's and Sauron's dominion throughout the history of Middle Earth, and were the armies that committed genocide and generally fought most of the wars against elves and men for thousands of years.
 
Amontadillo? said:
It's mostly because they were almost universally under Morgoth's and Sauron's dominion throughout the history of Middle Earth, and were the armies that committed genocide and generally fought most of the wars against elves and men for thousands of years.

They only did that to create a better world, and you can't do that with snotty elves and greedy humans.
 
Orcs should always be kept in check, but it's also important to not wipe them out completely. For the states of men require a foe to rally together against. If there isn't an Orc threat people would find more self-destructive issues to follow.
 
But think of the advances?  By burning all the forests down they'll have a longer line of sight.  Elves will be driven out of their natural habitat and will have to live in reserves.  Alcoholism and an obsession with running casinos will keep the elven populations down.  They're all going to piss off to America anyway right?
 
Kharille said:
I realized that they were pretty advanced:

They are capable of making weapons (bows, spears, daggers, shields and curved swords), armor (helmets, mail and scale armor), good (if unpleasant) medicine, and are pretty good engineers on top of creating assembly lines

Maybe not the same as Warhammer orcs?
When you describe them in these terms, they're not really that different from Warhammer's orky boyz. They too are very technically proficient, it's just innate instinct rather than societal in the more traditional sense.


kurczak said:
I was getting worried we wouldn't get a serious answer about an English teacher's make-believe world. I keed, I keed.
Look, I have no idea why this thread exists, but now that it does, this is pretty serious business.


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Hey guys I just got a PM from somebody who saw this thread and wanted to remain anonymous and it's about this thread:

Hey Garfelf you fat cat !! (what's up with the name? It's kind of silly. I hope you're not offended.) You seem like a regular in that board, I try to stick to the ones about the game mostly but I just thought I'd stick my head in. I just thought I had some interesting input for the thread but I kind of didn't feel like sticking my head out and I'm sort of shy. I thought you might post it there for me? You see, I'm a budding Tolkien scholar and I happen to be working on a thesis which, if I could put it that way, would break new ground in the field of Tolkien scholarship.

According to my thesis, this idea that usually gets dismissed, that The Lord of the Rings was really about World War II? Well, it's right after all but not for the reasons people think. You have to bear with me here: according to certain unpublished letters and notes from Tolkien which my university (unfortunately, I can't say which) happen to possess, Tolkien well hidden political leanings which he managed to conceal throughout his life. My thesis sets out to prove that The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion are in fact allegorical, and they concern the rise of Communism and a hypothetical WWII scenario in which Western Europe bands together to destroy the Soviet Union.

In my view, and this is heavily corroberated in those letters and notes that I mentioned, the Silmarillion corresponds to the history of Europe in the latter half of the 19th century. Morgoth, Tolkien's "Marx" figure, rebelled against his masters the Valar, who symbolize the paternalistic regimes of 19th century Europe. He created the orcs, who are parodies of working class people, and in the books speak "corrupted" English based on working class dialects. The creation of the orcs is symbolic for the awakening of class consciousness in the proletariat by Marx.

Sauron, being Morgoth's lieutenant and pupil, is a compund character and represents Lenin and Stalin. Whilst Morgoth tried to spread his influence in the North, as Germany, Britain and France from a Mediterranean perspective are in the North of Europe, Sauron brings the orcs and "evil" East. After a series of setbacks in the Silmarillion, the Valar and their cronies the Elves stamp out the influence of Morgoth but not eradicate "evil" entirely, representing the uprisings in 1848 in Europe and their limited success. Morgoth's student Sauron then takes over the mantle of lord of international Communism, and his inital base in Dol Guldur represents the Second International. Due to intervention by the Great Power, Sauron is forced to move East into Mordor, representing Communism taking on a more (in Tolkien's view) "Asiatic" character and adopting Socialism in One Country and biding its time until an attempt at a violent take-over of Europe/Middle Earth.

Gondor, then, would be nothing other than Nazi Germany, and if you look at its central position and compare the two, it makes sense. Denethor is Tolkien's Hitler figure, and the return of Aragorn is nothing other than the return of the hypothetical House of Hohenzollern. Rohan is quite clearly Britain, riding out to help Germany in this hypothetical scenario. The Hobbits are idealized peasants who do not rebel against the established social order, and some of them, like Frodo Baggins, are wealthy farmers who oppose Sauron's agenda. Samwise Gamgee, an Uncle Tom-like figure, represents the simple but fanatically loyal servants who help them.

*Notice how "Melkor" and "Morgoth" both begin with an "m". There is more symbolism in that the name "Melkor "is obviously lifted from the biblical figure of "Melchior", who brought the gift of frankincense to the "king of the Jews". Marx was of course of Jewish ancestry himself, and for several years he lived in France. The first element of Morgoth, *mor, could also reasonably be construed as an oblique root of *Morx by the rules of Latin or Greek, which is something that would make sense to an eccentric professor of linguistics like Tolkien. Sceptics might argue that the first element of Morgoth is mor-, meaning Black in Sindarin. This criticism can be easily dimissed by pointing to the fact that Tolkien was lazy and liked to make up names and then create etymologies for them. See Brandywine/Branduin, which is clearly something he came up with after a late-night bender with C.S. Lewis.

Obviously I couldn't relate the contents of my thesis in their entirety, I could only give but a few glimpses. I urge anyone who interested in Tolkien to keep their ear to the ground in the close future, because when my thesis comes out, it's going to be huge.  :razz: I hope you found this interesting and want to put it in the thread for me, and thanks in advance!
 
Его Высокопревосходительство said:
I urge anyone who's interested in Tolkien to reconsider their life choices.
I find that offensive. I've loved Tolkien ever since Attack of the Clones.
 
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