Why archers (and all ranged weapons) should be removed from M&B.

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flashn00b

Sergeant
I heard shields are good counters
I heard that they still have wonky hitboxes against projectiles. Said hitbox issues might not be too problematic in a 1v1 context. An arrow or two would probably phase through the shield but you'll probably get close enough to melee range.

When it's multiple players firing on shield users, I think enough arrows will go through that it'll be a problem.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I heard that they still have wonky hitboxes against projectiles. Said hitbox issues might not be too problematic in a 1v1 context. An arrow or two would probably phase through the shield but you'll probably get close enough to melee range.

When it's multiple players firing on shield users, I think enough arrows will go through that it'll be a problem.
?xd

Are you referring to people shooting under/over shields? That sounds like the opposite of what you're implying - i.e. hitboxes actually being good.
 

ziomek24

Veteran
I didnt just find it, its a sequence from a legendary movie that I watched many many times:


Despite being casual comedy from the 70s, I think that the setting and costumes is really well done. Albeit abit over the top, but actually accurate

Heres another, alternative, siege:


I think he was on TV once, but I didn't pay much attention to him. As for Army of Darknes ... it was a movie; D
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm talking about the hitbox issue that @Jesus__is__Lord mentioned a while back
don't think I've seen that happen at all, yet.
maybe the server thinks the shield is held in another position than the client shows? would still be an issue, of course.
 

CaNpoG

Recruit
Did you know:
You can use a shield to counter archers 80% of the time. If it's a 1v1 and you're infantry, you've already got a big advantage since they literally can't hit you with their bow due to the massive coverage of shields. At that point, you will run at the archer and then it's a melee fight between an infantryman and an archer. Though I see a lot of newer players who block in random directions with their shield and get hit with arrows from the front when they use sideways blocks instead of downblock. You literally can't get hit in a 1v1 otherwise.

When it comes to a 1vX situation, of course the outnumbering party has an advantage. Though the advantage is the same if the enemy is all infantry. It might even be way harder. The enemy archers have to be really careful not to shoot their teammate. Even if FF is off, their teammate will block arrows for you. Also the movement between two duellers sometimes makes it hard to predict where to aim. Now if they all are infantry, they can just run at you and spam you to death while bodyblocking some of your swings to glance off of their bodies.

The only balancing issue with archers is IMO the armor value of (especially khan's guard with 38 without even a heavy armor perk) heavy archers. Otherwise they aren't really that great.
 
just reduce arrow damage to heavy armor(or only infantry heavy armor) that way infantry can concentrate on melee instead of getting 3 shotted by tier 2 bows
 

CaNpoG

Recruit
just reduce arrow damage to heavy armor(or only infantry heavy armor) that way infantry can concentrate on melee instead of getting 3 shotted by tier 2 bows
You mean tier 2 as in heavy archers or tier 2 as in the SP low tier archers? This is an MP thread so I'm confused rn.
If you mean the light archers (similar to SP tier 2 archers), fair enough.
But if you mean the heavy archers, then making the bows/xbows kill with more than 3 shots will just make them utterly useless. Having to land more than three shots is unreliable af when you're supposed to be actually helping the team, say, in battle mode. If you're going to be dealing 20 damage per shot you might aswell just pick literally any other class and be more useful. Most players have shields and you can't even hit them from the front at that point. As I said, it'd just make ranged literally useless "stagger"-dealing bots at best.
 
You mean tier 2 as in heavy archers or tier 2 as in the SP low tier archers? This is an MP thread so I'm confused rn.
If you mean the light archers (similar to SP tier 2 archers), fair enough.
But if you mean the heavy archers, then making the bows/xbows kill with more than 3 shots will just make them utterly useless. Having to land more than three shots is unreliable af when you're supposed to be actually helping the team, say, in battle mode. If you're going to be dealing 20 damage per shot you might aswell just pick literally any other class and be more useful. Most players have shields and you can't even hit them from the front at that point. As I said, it'd just make ranged literally useless "stagger"-dealing bots at best.


i think reducing arrow damage without giving archers normal running speed (movement penalty on quiver not archer so archers can drop bow/quiver to run normally) might be too much of a debuff

the reduction of arrow damage is prudent only when allowing archers to have normal running speed this way archers can melee and not just die automatically when 2 infantry surround them.
 

罗加伯爵

Recruit
The bow and arrow is a weapon that cannot be lost in the Middle Ages I feel sorry for you wanting to get rid of the bow and arrow I think you were shot by the bow and arrow and went to the website to complain
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
The bow and arrow is a weapon that cannot be lost in the Middle Ages I feel sorry for you wanting to get rid of the bow and arrow I think you were shot by the bow and arrow and went to the website to complain
I'm pretty sure i've mentioned that an all archer team needs to put in a lot less effort for their wins compared to a team that has a nice balance between inf/archer/cav. I'm hoping that the upcoming archer nerfs will push more players towards balanced team compositions, but i'm also open to the possibility that the nerfs planned for e1.7.2 will be little more than a light slap on the wrist.
 

CaNpoG

Recruit
I'm pretty sure i've mentioned that an all archer team needs to put in a lot less effort for their wins compared to a team that has a nice balance between inf/archer/cav.
You're saying a full archer team will win against full heavy inf rush or Inf+cav?

If the infantry have played more than five hours of MP then that doesn't happen does it? Pretty much every single shield covers all shots from the front. If you all have shields, the archers can't do pretty much anything. When you get into melee, the fight is over if you're not playing with a noob team against some 5k+ hour Warband melee gods.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I'm pretty sure i've mentioned that an all archer team needs to put in a lot less effort for their wins compared to a team that has a nice balance between inf/archer/cav.
You've mentioned this before, with zero evidence to support it, sure.

Cav meanwhile:

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