Why am I ending up with a bunch of Fians in my army?

Why am I ending up with a bunch of Fians in my army?

  • Fians are the best

    选票: 5 11.4%
  • Fians FTW

    选票: 1 2.3%
  • Fians survive everything

    选票: 5 11.4%
  • Fians are OP

    选票: 17 38.6%
  • Fians are sexy

    选票: 16 36.4%

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many people may disagree with this opinion but i think it is very logical and has some place in terms of making archers less op. it's to make headshots no longer do bonus damage but instead, neck shots do.
If you want to make archers less op, simply fixing armour will achieve that.

In addition it is counter-intuitive for players who go for headshots in every other game to find they do no bonus damage.
neck hitbox smaller than the head but with some practice you can still reliably hit it.
Not when one or both of you is on a moving horse, or even just running while strafing. Arrows are a projectile weapon with travel time delay, to have a very small target in addition would make them too random as there are too many factors the player cannot account for. Even a perfectly aimed shot can be ruined by a slight change of direction by the target while the arrow is still in flight.
while an arrow through the head will do significantly less damage, as it just creates a clean hole, damaging a much smaller amount of tissue
Human brains need constant blood supply to function. Even if the arrowhead damages less tissue on the way in than a bullet, without immediate medical attention you will quickly bleed to death. At the very least, it's a near-instant KO if you aren't wearing any sort of head protection.
real life bow hunters would never go for headshots since it has the greatest chance to miss and the animal has the most amount of natural protection there due to the skull which could prevent a clean kill even when the shot is perfect
Hunters go for the body of deer because (in addition to the head being a harder target to hit) deer have smaller brains than humans, bigger lungs, and thicker skulls than humans too (stags literally fight by headbutting). So hunting animals isn't really applicable here.

Just fix armour protection against ranged attacks, also fix melee cavalry to be less bad at fighting, and archer problem should be solved. It worked in Warband, shouldn't be so hard or complicated.
 
Well, for the same reason most players ended up with a bunch of Swadian Knights and Vaegir Marksmen in Warband LOL

I guess fians are supposed to be strong, since they are top tier noble troops, and other Battanian troops are rather mediocre. They also have the weakest cavalry. On the other side, fians are expensive and rare (if you play on realistic recruitment difficulty).

Anyway, in vanilla game all high tier archers are OP, because they shoot like friggin machine guns.

I play with RBM mod, which makes armor, well, protective and reworks bows/crossbows damage and physics. RBM also can change the reload speed of bows/crossbows to "realistic" and "semi-realistic", which makes all archers less OP. But fians are still very strong.
 
In addition it is counter-intuitive for players who go for headshots in every other game to find they do no bonus damage.
the point is why be like every other game ? a gun and bullet game should have appropriate physics for fire arms and a bow and arrow game should have similarly appropriate mechanics.
I've played shooters such as borderlands. where every type of enemy has a different critical spot. just adds some variety and fun to the game instead of the same run of the mill humanoid headshots.
M&B has a pretty unique niche going on and i don't see why they have to copy past the same mechanic from other genres. why not have it's own neck hit box being the critical spot? the human neck is arguably the most easily cut, pierced and bludgeoned area on the entire body. and a well placed arrow or cut will meet no resistance in the form of metal or bone plating. someone can bleed to death in 15 seconds with a proper cut across the neck.
Not when one or both of you is on a moving horse, or even just running while strafing. Arrows are a projectile weapon with travel time delay, to have a very small target in addition would make them too random as there are too many factors the player cannot account for. Even a perfectly aimed shot can be ruined by a slight change of direction by the target while the arrow is still in flight.
now you are just arguing semantics. whether it's appropriate to have a hitbox sized "X" versus a hitbox sized "2X"? if you can't hit the critical spot maybe aim for center mass? or why not make everyone's head have a magical magnet giant hit box so players get very satisfying headshot experience?
while i too think it's very important to change projectile calculations so they don't do that much damage through armor. it's another thing to flat out add numerous damage multipliers for ranged headshots.
Human brains need constant blood supply to function. Even if the arrowhead damages less tissue on the way in than a bullet, without immediate medical attention you will quickly bleed to death. At the very least, it's a near-instant KO if you aren't wearing any sort of head protection.
funny you should mention the bleeding aspect. even during cases of direct impact, arrows most often entering but not even exiting out the other end. in any case, it's extremely rare that they can make it clean through. and as long as the shaft is still inside the cavity. it will fill the gap and prevent excessive bleeding. go watch some slowmo footage of arrows going into ballistic gel vs bullets. they don't have the same mechanics.
that is assuming the arrow made a deadcenter direct impact because once again, the dommed shape of the helmets will ensure that vast majority of shots glance off. and even in bannerlord where armor is made of paper. most troops still have head armor with higher armor values compared to the rest of their kit. and start to have full metal helms at tier 2.
So hunting animals isn't really applicable here.
if modern archers aiming for efficient kills isn't applicable than what is? your experience in halo or counter strike??

any HEMA practitioner would agree that it's important to aim your attacks at areas that are less guarded. in terms of both the opponents deflection/parrys and his protective gear. if you are fighting armored opponent, it's simply futile to go for heavily armored areas. such as the head, chest and shoulders. a medieval archer would be aiming for the gaps in the faceplates. the neck, under the arms, gaps around the waist area and the legs.
 
the point is why be like every other game ? a gun and bullet game should have appropriate physics for fire arms and a bow and arrow game should have similarly appropriate mechanics.
And doing more damage on a headshot is indeed appropriate. Being like every other game and thus more intuitive is just one small reason of multiple why removing critical headshots would be a bad idea.

The most important, of course, is that your one gameplay reason you've given for doing it (nerfing archers) would be accomplished anyway by just buffing armour, so it's pointless.
I've played shooters such as borderlands. where every type of enemy has a different critical spot. just adds some variety and fun to the game instead of the same run of the mill humanoid headshots.
Borderlands is a cuhrayzee game set on an alien planet full of non humanoids, it isn't trying to be a grounded very-low-fantasy-no-magic setting strongly based on the real life 1000s time period on planet Earth. You can always install a mod that makes headshots have no damage multiplier and neckshots have critical damage if you want, might even be pretty easy to make.
why not have it's own neck hit box being the critical spot? the human neck is arguably the most easily cut, pierced and bludgeoned area on the entire body. and a well placed arrow or cut will meet no resistance in the form of metal or bone plating. someone can bleed to death in 15 seconds with a proper cut across the neck.
I would not be opposed to both being critical damage areas. In fact this may even be the case already, not sure.
now you are just arguing semantics. whether it's appropriate to have a hitbox sized "X" versus a hitbox sized "2X"? if you can't hit the critical spot maybe aim for center mass? or why not make everyone's head have a magical magnet giant hit box so players get very satisfying headshot experience?
I don't think you get what "semantics" means. Ironically, it means in this context "arguing the definition of words," which you are now making me do. However it does not mean "the difference between 1x and 2x numerical size".

It won't just be me who can't hit the criticals, nobody will be able to do it consistently on any target that isn't stationary if the target is halved in size. And that part about magnets is called a straw man argument, pretending I said something I never said, which just wastes both our time.
while i too think it's very important to change projectile calculations so they don't do that much damage through armor.
I'm glad we agree.
funny you should mention the bleeding aspect. even during cases of direct impact, arrows most often entering but not even exiting out the other end. in any case, it's extremely rare that they can make it clean through. and as long as the shaft is still inside the cavity. it will fill the gap and prevent excessive bleeding.
The blood doesn't even necessarily need to make it to the outside, bleeding inside the brain itself is extremely dangerous- this is called a haemorrhagic stroke! The large, triangular arrowhead can sever blood vessels inside the brain and suddenly you have internal bleeding. It could also hit your spinal cord and suddenly you are paralyzed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7808282/#:~:text=Brain and spinal cord injury,difficulty in breathing or dysphagia. "Brain and spinal cord injury (from arrows) may cause paraplegia, quadriplegia, ventricular hemorrhage, corning, or immediate death."

It is incredibly unlikely that someone is just going to continue to run around and fight with an arrow sticking out of their eye socket or forehead and cutting up things around inside their brain while they move. Therefore, at the very least it would be a KO if you take a couple of arrows to the face which is not protected by a helmet. Do you actually disagree with this statement? If you do not disagree, then damage bonus for headshots is justified.

go watch some slowmo footage of arrows going into ballistic gel vs bullets. they don't have the same mechanics.
that is assuming the arrow made a deadcenter direct impact because once again, the dommed shape of the helmets will ensure that vast majority of shots glance off. and even in bannerlord where armor is made of paper. most troops still have head armor with higher armor values compared to the rest of their kit. and start to have full metal helms at tier 2.
Yes, armour is better for heads, but despite this the head is still more vulnerable to injury than the body. Therefore, the damage bonus is justified, since the armour is still taken into account and reduces the damage bonus.

If you have something more vulnerable which you give more protection, and something less vulnerable which you give less protection, it balances out.
if modern archers aiming for efficient kills isn't applicable than what is? your experience in halo or counter strike??
Kind of feel like I'm being trolled here, if not and you are arguing in good faith then please stop getting worked up and reply to my actual arguments instead of making a straw man. I already explained to you that deer anatomy and human anatomy are hugely different and this is why hunting deer and shooting humans is so different as to not be an applicable example.

Something else I forgot to mention is deer are faster than humans too making headshots even more comparatively viable on a person than a deer, in addition to everything else
if you are fighting armored opponent, it's simply futile to go for heavily armored areas. such as the head, chest and shoulders.
It isn't futile at all - the vast majority of Bannerlord helmets leave most of the face exposed.

And while attacking heavily armoured areas is a bad idea, it becomes a better idea if it is a more vulnerable part of the body in the first place, which heads are.
A medieval archer would be aiming for the gaps in the faceplates. the neck, under the arms, gaps around the waist area and the legs.
True, but irrelevant to the following facts:

(A) if that archer hit someone who was wearing no armour, he would cause more rapid death/incapacitation hitting them in the face than almost anywhere else in the body.

(B) if that archer hit someone who was wearing full mail all over their body, he would cause more injury/incapacitation hitting them in the face than almost anywhere else in the body.

Therefore the damage bonus for critical headshot is justified.
 
Sexiest army:
Cataphracts and Banner knights = sexy flankers to kill disgusting enemy cavalry.
Legionaries and sturgian heavy axemen = lines of sexy men to hold off against disgusting peasants.
Fian champions = Sexy men go BRRRRRR
 
Kind of feel like I'm being trolled here, if not and you are arguing in good faith then please stop getting worked up
I could honestly say the same, because instead of taking my post as a complete cohesive piece . you try to dissect every paragraph, every sentence, every phrase and every word, then analyze it as if doing so has any merit. while ignoring the whole picture.
look at your post, how fragmented it is, how many different points it has yet lacking a central idea aside from the fact you disagree with me...do you honestly expect people to converse with you like that. in a hundred little point form phrases?

if you insist i'll boil it down to one simple argument:
in a hypothetical scenario where your target is tied down unable to defend himself or move. you get a clear shot on his head with your bow and arrow with 100% accuracy. assuming he's got a solid skull and is wearing a helmet. simply due to the physics behind arrows hitting helmets, the majority of your "direct hits" on his head will glance off and have significantly reduced effect, only a few dead center hits coming within a narrow range of angles will deliver the full intended amount of force.
now that also depends on the type of helmet. some offer only as much as about 40-50% coverage of the head, while others have facemasks pretty much covering 95% of the head allowing only eye shots to get in there.

and the side argument i'm making is: the aforementioned small area and narrow angles is actually smaller than the effective kill area for the neck. making the "actual critical area" on the neck greater than that on the head.
 
I could honestly say the same, because instead of taking my post as a complete cohesive piece . you try to dissect every paragraph, every sentence, every phrase and every word, then analyze it as if doing so has any merit. while ignoring the whole picture.
look at your post, how fragmented it is, how many different points it has yet lacking a central idea aside from the fact you disagree with me...do you honestly expect people to converse with you like that. in a hundred little point form phrases?

if you insist i'll boil it down to one simple argument:
in a hypothetical scenario where your target is tied down unable to defend himself or move. you get a clear shot on his head with your bow and arrow with 100% accuracy. assuming he's got a solid skull and is wearing a helmet. simply due to the physics behind arrows hitting helmets, the majority of your "direct hits" on his head will glance off and have significantly reduced effect, only a few dead center hits coming within a narrow range of angles will deliver the full intended amount of force.
now that also depends on the type of helmet. some offer only as much as about 40-50% coverage of the head, while others have facemasks pretty much covering 95% of the head allowing only eye shots to get in there.

and the side argument i'm making is: the aforementioned small area and narrow angles is actually smaller than the effective kill area for the neck. making the "actual critical area" on the neck greater than that on the head.
I'll address your simple argument you boiled it down to (even though you didn't do the same with the core argument of my post but anyway).

In regards to what you say about glancing blows, sure that is possible, it is also entirely possible with lamellar as well. But if a high speed arrow bashes you on the side of the helmet for a glancing blow, it's going to hurt more than, for example, being hit on your lamellar-armoured shoulder with a glancing blow. Therefore the damage bonus is still justified in this situation. Even though it's a tiny amount of damage like 2 for the head, and 1 for the body.

But more importantly, glancing blows are made far less relevant by the fact that 95% of helmets in Bannerlord cover 50% of the head at most, even the best ones! Nearly all T0, T1 and T2 troops don't even wear a metal helmet, just a leather cap.

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So the more important question is not glancing blows, it's how the human face reacts to taking a bloody arrow in it. Therefore refer to what I said earlier:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7808282/#:~:text=Brain and spinal cord injury,difficulty in breathing or dysphagia. "Brain and spinal cord injury (from arrows) may cause paraplegia, quadriplegia, ventricular hemorrhage, corning, or immediate death."

Do you agree that if you take an arrow to the eye socket or through your forehead into your brain, which is a 100%-40% chance for 95% of troops in the game, it is highly likely to kill you or take you out of commission for the rest of the battle? Yes or no.
 
最后编辑:
Now, I play a Khuzait, still have 30-40 fians, even though I never ever recruited a single one from Batanian villages, we aren't neighbors. All of them are freed or converted prisoners.
 
Now, I play a Khuzait, still have 30-40 fians, even though I never ever recruited a single one from Batanian villages, we aren't neighbors. All of them are freed or converted prisoners.
High tier troops are more likely to be wounded rather than killed.
 
I use My Little Warband mod and I allways made a "Fians" for every factions, mainly with Batanian, there I have them on feet and on horses. (Well last time I fail because I can't give the correct perk to fire 200 speed arch.
 
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