Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

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I think removing the learning speed restriction really destroyed the base mechanics in bannerlord, one of the few new features in Bannerlord. My understanding of the mechnics was to limit your character growth so it can't become super good at everything and create a need to specialize and deligate other task, surgeon, quatermaster, engineer, scout, govenor to other characters that you specilize in those areas.

My hypothesis is you'll playthrough be even more repetitive since eventually you'll be high level in everything anyway.
It's a great change. All the "reduced exp after level-up" was doing was increase the grind senselessly in an already grindy game. It also made focus points and attributes feel like a scam (because the only thing they give is learning exp bonus, but that got diminished because leveling up reduced learning exp - which makes no sense). The game is still grindy but it's more bearable right now, specializing in something is still very viable because if you just make an all-rounded character it will take plenty of time to skill everything up, so it's a choice that will cost you plenty of time. I'm 2 years in and I barely got 70 athletics by having only 2 endurance and 4 focus points and playing normally, trying to make a balanced character. If you grind, you will eventually get there, but it's still quite a long grind, and it was so much worse with that reduced learning rate. Now it's just more predictable how your skills will level-up: you know that if you put 1 focus point in you will have a certain learning rate that won't get reduced just because you leveled up, which is great. Before this reduced learning rate made me very frustrated that the grind in the late game became more and more unbearable, halting progression. At least now I know what to expect.

The game has an heir system which I expect to have more of a role in the game in the future. That means your main character will also have a chance to die in battle, like companions and lords. Which means you and your companions won't get to become "ultra strong characters", only if you play perfectly and not even then (age still kills). This was a needed change.

The only good thing about bannerlords was the combat simulation and that's broken now.

Apparently, not being able to give commands to your army once the enemy begins to flee is a new "feature".

Just great.
What issue are you talking about? You mean that after you win the battle you can't control your troops right? I think that's fine if so, what is the problem? At most it stops the player from grinding troop experience on fleeing enemies, right? Which would make sense. The other possible change they could have done was to make fleeing enemies not give exp... but now you can still chase enemies yourself to get some combat experience so it's fine.
This routing thing is a major annoyance. If I'm having such issues with looters, I can't imagine how it'll be like when I'm actually going up against another army.
routing was annoying for me too, and now looters seem to run way sooner. But I think it's fine, I don't mind it as much anymore. And it's definitely better against bigger armies, you will still get plenty of action before a big army completely runs away. The bigger problem is with small groups, that's all. Plus, armies will have lords with some leadership skill, which means more morale. Keep that in mind. I wish there were bandit heroes as well.
 

echoco

Recruit
1 You won't be super good at more then 1 attribute set, no matter what. It's hard capped by your attributes.
2 Your companions suffer from that same limits and they often start at a higher level, making it even slower for them raise thier special skill (if they even can). Tell me how did you "create" a specialized a companion? Or do you mean "Hire a crappy wanderer with 80-140 skill in something and it barely improves for the rest of the game".
3 You can't be a governor anyways
The only good one is your campaign brother, because you can customize him during the tutorial.


Nope. My character is nearly the same as older versions but now I don't experience "aaaw man I shot too many guys and leveled up 10 times, now I can't learn scouting as fast :sad: " now it's "I shot a bunch of guys and leveled up 10 times, cool".
I think you don't understand what hard caps are if you think anyone's going to be high level in everything.
Yeah, this doesn't make sense. If you live a long life, wouldn't it make sense that you can be skilled in multiple departments? You can still have a profession, as your attributes limit your max, but why would I learn one-handed weapons slower when super efficient with two-handed? Wouldn't this learning carry throughout my life, making it easier if anything? It is a great change.
"how did you "create" a specialized a companion"
Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.

Like how a person start running, they'll make quick progress when they begin but after a while they'll platau out until they really focus on running at the expense of everything else. Or if you learn martial arts you'll learn all the basic very easily and then takes years to slowly master the art. They don't improve constantly, they all reach a period of stagnation at one point where they progress slowly. The older you get the slower you learn.

One handed vs two handed, look at body builders and strong men, one has a lot of muscle and they're strong, the other are big, not very well defined muscles but are stronger. Being good at a marathon doesn't make you the fastest 100m sprinter, different muscle groups. Muscle memory is a thing. Under your logic we would all expect a tennis champions to be equally good at badminton? Most people I know are good at a few things and not so good at everything else. People who are jack of all trades can't compete with people who focused on a single thing. A lot of NFL athletes play multiple sports but only a few might be able compete in other things at a professional level.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Correct. As soon as the enemy flees, you lose control of your troops
So cavalry will stop running them down and stand still? Or you're just not able to give orders?
Seems odd since the rout is when the real slaughter would happen in so many cases historically. I understand that it's super easy to kill them since they don't respond but it would be better if they made fleeing soldiers try to defend themselves like this mod does: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/897

I also enjoy making my infantry form a line at the end so I can look at how pretty they are in formation. But I haven't tried 1.5.10 yet so can't judge properly.
 
Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.
Did you know you CANNOT do that in Bannerlord because all actions give you exp toward leveling up regardless of how you spent you points? Yes eve red hard capped skill. Your whole idea of how you build up your characters was just a day dream from not understanding the actual mechanics.
 
So cavalry will stop running them down and stand still? Or you're just not able to give orders?
Seems odd since the rout is when the real slaughter would happen in so many cases historically. I understand that it's super easy to kill them since they don't respond but it would be better if they made fleeing soldiers try to defend themselves like this mod does: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/897

I also enjoy making my infantry form a line at the end so I can look at how pretty they are in formation. But I haven't tried 1.5.10 yet so can't judge properly.
Half of my cav still kills routing enemies, other half just cheers. Trick is to tell them before the victory music starts. I cannot currently, on the 1.5.10 command troops to do anything after the victory music starts.
 

echoco

Recruit
Did you know you CANNOT do that in Bannerlord because all actions give you exp toward leveling up regardless of how you spent you points? Yes eve red hard capped skill. Your whole idea of how you build up your characters was just a day dream from not understanding the actual mechanics.
"Your companions suffer from that same limits and they often start at a higher level, making it even slower for them raise thier special skill (if they even can). Tell me how did you "create" a specialized a companion?"
Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.

I specilize my companions using that method. I assign them as quartermaster or other roles as needed. And made sure they gain skills in the field I want the quickest. I can usually get two of their skills (primary and secondary) up that way at the cost of everything else. They might gain some skills in other things but nothing significant.

For my character I also focus on a few skills. I don't gain scouting skill because the scout would take all those points, Surgeon takes all the medical etc. Don't want to gain skills in trade don't trade. You only gain skills for doing those activities, you know that right?
 
"Your companions suffer from that same limits and they often start at a higher level, making it even slower for them raise thier special skill (if they even can). Tell me how did you "create" a specialized a companion?"
Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.

I specilize my companions using that method. I assign them as quartermaster or other roles as needed. And made sure they gain skills in the field I want the quickest. I can usually get two of their skills (primary and secondary) up that way at the cost of everything else. They might gain some skills in other things but nothing significant.

For my character I also focus on a few skills. I don't gain scouting skill because the scout would take all those points, Surgeon takes all the medical etc. Don't want to gain skills in trade don't trade. You only gain skills for doing those activities, you know that right?
Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels? Do you think now you would without the level up penalty? If you only do combat skills on your character so you're not concerned about level bloat from combat... okay so what? Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything? I don't understand what you initial post is trying to say:
I think removing the learning speed restriction really destroyed the base mechanics in bannerlord, one of the few new features in Bannerlord. My understanding of the mechnics was to limit your character growth so it can't become super good at everything and create a need to specialize and deligate other task, surgeon, quatermaster, engineer, scout, govenor to other characters that you specilize in those areas.

My hypothesis is you'll playthrough be even more repetitive since eventually you'll be high level in everything anyway.
^How do I become super good at everything now? I don't get any extra FP or attributes, how do I do it?
 

madnessario

Squire
So cavalry will stop running them down and stand still? Or you're just not able to give orders?
Seems odd since the rout is when the real slaughter would happen in so many cases historically. I understand that it's super easy to kill them since they don't respond but it would be better if they made fleeing soldiers try to defend themselves like this mod does: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/897

I also enjoy making my infantry form a line at the end so I can look at how pretty they are in formation. But I haven't tried 1.5.10 yet so can't judge properly.

Half the army will cheer and half the army will follow the commands before the battle "ended". To answer your question, you are not able to give new orders.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Under your logic we would all expect a tennis champions to be equally good at badminton?
This is a wild take, and actually hurts your argument more than it helps. I'd certainly expect a tennis champ to be able to pick up & learn badminton faster than someone who doesn't have an athletic background, and that's effectively what we have now. Will they meet or exceed their tennis skill? Probably not, or if they do then it would be after considerable time & focused effort. We have numerical representations in the game for just how much a character focuses on improving a skill, and they're even called focus points. These skills are still capped by attributes, so a master swordsman is unlikely to be able to also master engineering, but he could reach exceptional skill with polearms because it's closely related to his original focus.
 
This information is incorrect. the purpose of Beta testing is not to debug software but to test it against user requirements and expectations. Alpha testing should already have validated the software, i.e. it should be more or less bug-free when it reaches Beta stage.
I disagree.
Every software I have ever officially beta tested (including from major software developers), bug discovery, and stomping is part of the goal and process. Part of the beta testing is to test the software against much more varied hardware configurations.
 
This is a wild take, and actually hurts your argument more than it helps. I'd certainly expect a tennis champ to be able to pick up & learn badminton faster than someone who doesn't have an athletic background, and that's effectively what we have now. Will they meet or exceed their tennis skill? Probably not, or if they do then it would be after considerable time & focused effort. We have numerical representations in the game for just how much a character focuses on improving a skill, and they're even called focus points. These skills are still capped by attributes, so a master swordsman is unlikely to be able to also master engineering, but he could reach exceptional skill with polearms because it's closely related to his original focus.
+1
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Half of my cav still kills routing enemies, other half just cheers. Trick is to tell them before the victory music starts. I cannot currently, on the 1.5.10 command troops to do anything after the victory music starts.
Half the army will cheer and half the army will follow the commands before the battle "ended". To answer your question, you are not able to give new orders.
I guess it's not so different then, on 1.5.9 even if you give orders after the victory music only half respond. Annoying thing is when cavalry starts cheering and rides past a runaway instead of killing him. I don't see the point in removing the ability to give orders though.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels? Do you think now you would without the level up penalty? If you only do combat skills on your character so you're not concerned about level bloat from combat... okay so what? Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything? I don't understand what you initial post is trying to say:

^How do I become super good at everything now? I don't get any extra FP or attributes, how do I do it?
It's pretty obvious he doesn't understand how leveling actually worked prior to this so there is no use in arguing with him about. The level up penalty was one of the most annoying and grindy ideas that TW ever came up with and that's saying a lot. Good riddance to it, now if we could fix sieges, smithing, a few other things I actually might come back and play. (y)
 
I disagree.
Every software I have ever officially beta tested (including from major software developers), bug discovery, and stomping is part of the goal and process. Part of the beta testing is to test the software against much more varied hardware configurations.
This is not a subjective topic that we can agree or disagree on. It is engineering terminology and is pretty well-defined. Beta phase testing is part of a test methodology (Alpha/Beta testing) developed by IBM and is basically a replacement for acceptance testing and nothing else.
 
This is not a subjective topic that we can agree or disagree on. It is engineering terminology and is pretty well-defined. Beta phase testing is part of a test methodology (Alpha/Beta testing) developed by IBM and is basically a replacement for acceptance testing and nothing else.
I'm not arguing how IBM defined the terminology. I'm arguing how companies are actually applying the term. It is like arguing "douche" is a feminine cleansing product per Webster.
 

helari

Sergeant at Arms
i think it's important to try to balance autoresolve and playable battles to a point, maybe this will help balance loot and troop xp gains somewhat?
 

echoco

Recruit
Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels? Do you think now you would without the level up penalty? If you only do combat skills on your character so you're not concerned about level bloat from combat... okay so what? Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything? I don't understand what you initial post is trying to say:

^How do I become super good at everything now? I don't get any extra FP or attributes, how do I do it?
What I'm trying to say is, my understanding of the learning rate limitation as the level rises (recently removed) was to force the character to develop slower. So that the character would be older before reach the max of their potential and even risk dying before that max is reached. To get better charactrs you then need to have children whose skills are based on yours and then you build up on that to get even better, at least that what I got from one of the dev blogs.

Removing the learning limitation the levels had means you'll reach your potential earlier in life. You'll also likely get more attribute and focus points by the time your character dies, meaning you can put those into more skills.
"aaaw man I shot too many guys and leveled up 10 times, now I can't learn scouting as fast :sad: " now it's "I shot a bunch of guys and leveled up 10 times, cool"
Those 10 levels will give you at least 2 attributes and 10 more focus points.

"Hire a crappy wanderer with 80-140 skill in something and it barely improves for the rest of the game"
That's the thing, you consider 80-140 skills as crappy when 100 in any weapon skill is a competitive level where you no longer struggle to do something. With 100 in weapons you're able to hold your own again high tier troops.

"Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything?"
That's what you do, "They all sit in taverns getting relations for me. I've never seen a wanderer with relevant skill more then 140, which is garbage." not me. And you'll be able to do things even better because you can optimize your attributes to fit your play style where as the companion will be the same, improving a little faster. So you still wouldn't need your companions because their skills are crappy and go about the world by yourself.

"Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels?"
And that's why I didn't spell it out for you at first, I figured you can work it out yourself that a character that is good at one thing is specialized. I assign them roles specifically to train them to a useful level, 1.5.10 just means they'll spend less time in those roles.

I'm 2 years in and I barely got 70 athletics by having only 2 endurance and 4 focus points and playing normally, trying to make a balanced character. If you grind, you will eventually get there, but it's still quite a long grind, and it was so much worse with that reduced learning rate. Now it's just more predictable how your skills will level-up: you know that if you put 1 focus point in you will have a certain learning rate that won't get reduced just because you leveled up, which is great. Before this reduced learning rate made me very frustrated that the grind in the late game became more and more unbearable, halting progression. At least now I know what to expect.
With 2 attributes and 4 focus, you're not exactly the posterboy for that skill. Your example is of a secondary skill, your primary skills where you have 4 or more attributes progress pretty well right? And now these secondary skills progressed at a quicker rate, doesn't that prove that you can become good at multiple things now? It's a grind if your aim is to get secondary skills over 100, needing to wait for more levels for more attribute points. I agree it's more predictable with 1.5.10 and that takes away from not knowing if you're character is going to croke it before it reach max potential, and less agency to have kids or really focus on doing just one thing well. I still think that tennis and badminton is valid comparison, one focus on power and the other on fine control.
 
. To get better charactrs you then need to have children whose skills are based on yours
Not part of the game

You'll also likely get more attribute and focus points by the time your character dies, meaning you can put those into more skills.
How? How will I get more?

I should have just ignored your 1st post and let you have your opinion based on misunderstanding everything about skills and leveling. I'm not trying be mean but you realty just don't know anything about it.

With 2 attributes and 4 focus, you're not exactly the posterboy for that skill.
? He spends his point: he expects to reach the cap allowed by those points in a useful, reasonable amount of time, NOW he can, before he wouldn't.

That's the thing, you consider 80-140 skills as crappy when 100 in any weapon skill is a competitive level where you no longer struggle to do something
I can go through the whole game with 18 polearm skill because melee skill is completely un-needed. There's no struggle for me with zero skill in a melee. There's no possible comparison between weapon skills and support skills. All the support skills tell you how much of the effect they have, it's not a puzzle, you can look and see and read what perks everyone has and see how petty and ineffective it is and likewise how much better I would be to have it at 275-333, the range I consider "good".
Before most companions would probably never get that high in thier special skill, now they probably can in a reasonable amount of game time.

It's pretty obvious he doesn't understand how leveling actually worked prior to this so there is no use in arguing with him about.
I know, it's one of those threads I go back to and wonder why I even bothered responding. Feels really good to spend my point in game now and feel confident I will get those skills sooner or later.
 

echoco

Recruit
Not part of the game
Well, children were supposed to have skills based on the parents.
How? How will I get more?

I should have just ignored your 1st post and let you have your opinion based on misunderstanding everything about skills and leveling. I'm not trying be mean but you realty just don't know anything about it.
So you level up 10 times, but you don't earn exp any slower. Wouldn't that mean you'll be getting the next 10 levels faster than in 1.4.9? And by the time your character dies he'll be higher level than in 1.4.9, the extra levels would give you attributes and focus wouldn't it? Or you don't think with the new system your character will be able to reach higher level?
I would be to have it at 275-333, the range I consider "good".
You consider top of the game level "good", I consider that super good.
 
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