Whores in the earlier days?

[uncreative]

So, I read a little in "The Pillars of the Earth", specifically about whores, and some questions came to me.

I think it pretty obvious that there have been whores for pretty long, I presume it isn't called the world's oldest profession for nothing (I assume far longer than coins etc, but I also find it hard to imagine a whore sleeping with someone for a week and getting a sheep or similar), but I was curious as to preganancies in these times. I know men, especially men of status, in these times usually had a whole heap of bastards, but I find it hard to imagine how a whore, whether some poor beggar selling herself on the streets or some richer girl being hired by lesser nobles and merchants, would go through life. Wouldn't she get pregnant almost all the time? Sodomy was outlawed after all. From the previously mentioned book and a few other sources I've heard that peasants often left a child they couldn't afford or need out in the woods to die, but if a whore would do that on a regular basis it seems pretty ****ed up.

Also, while the presence of whores seem pretty obvious in cities and near courts and castles, how where these things in more tribal societies such as pre-Migration Age/early Viking Age Scandinavia or the more mobile societies of the early Eurasian steppes?

 

[malthaussen]

If prostitution is the world's oldest profession, contraception is it's oldest form of medicine.  There were a number of ways, pre- Modern Times, to avoid the consequences of copulation.  Also, I have a hazy memory of reading somewhere that fertility goes down as you go back in history, this having something to do with nutrition and living conditions.  However, doubtless many prostitutes did have children, and either abandoned them, sold them, or raised them up to be the next generation of prostitutes.  Not much different from now, actually.

Many prostitutes in the Ancient era in Egypt, Palestine, and numerous other areas, were Temple Prostitutes, earning a little for the local fertility goddess before getting honorably married.  Sometimes, this involved working until becoming pregnant:  proof of fertility was important in selecting a wife, despite the cult of virginity, and it has been suggested that many in the lower classes, did not marry a woman until she had become pregnant, thus proving that she could bear children.  It makes economic sense, when you think of it.

As for compensation:  there was sufficient coinage around in urban areas to pay off a prostitute, and Temple contributions could doubtless be in coin or kind.  Not having studied the subject, however, I couldn't tell you how common pay-for-play was.  Likewise, about the incidence of rural prostitution, I am uninformed, although this is an area in which the question of compensation would arise, and I agree with you, it's hard to picture a prostitute being paid in fleece.  Of course, there was plenty of casual sex going on in those areas... often with fleece.

As a minor aside, do you really think that because "sodomy was outlawed" it wasn't practiced?  Along with whatever other variations the customer desired?  After all, prostitution itself was "outlawed."

  -- Mal

 

[uncreative]

As a minor aside, do you really think that because "sodomy was outlawed" it wasn't practiced?  Along with whatever other variations the customer desired?  After all, prostitution itself was "outlawed."

  -- Mal

I think people were overly religious and fearful of divine retribution in many parts of the world through many times. I also know that prostitutes were very much accepted, or atleast not dealt with, in many places, and that the people who made the laws made frequent use of them. I've also heard that several known people, I think da Vinci was one of them, were punished by authorities for suspected sodomy, and that, at least in some places, it was a capital offence.
Thanks for the answers though, rather informative, but some more would be welcome.

 

[Destichado]

Well it was certainly practiced in the later ancient world!  We know because we have their price lists.

 

[nijis]

In contemporary traditional societies, women who go into prostitution are very often those who are disowned by their families -- including women who have been raped, and are thus unmarriageable. Or, in some cases, they are pimped out by their own families, sometimes even husband. So, while you'd probably expect to find more in the relative anonymity of a city, you might expect to find one or two in a market village. Villages are ideosyncratic places.

As malthaussen says, contraception was probably among the world's oldest forms of medicine. Abortion was also quite common. Greeks, Romans, quite a few medieval Muslims, and some early and medieval Christians (including, I believe Augustine) believed that a fetus was not "ensouled" until some weeks/months into the pregnancy or even until birth. Official Catholic church thinking seems to have gone back and forth on this issue up until the 19th century. Thus, abortion may not have been condemned per se in some medieval communities, although it might have been stigmatized as an indicator of sex out of wedlock and/or poverty.

Btw, "whore" is a pretty negative term for people who have had a fairly raw deal in life, or have few other options.

 

[uncreative]

As malthaussen says, contraception was probably among the world's oldest forms of medicine. Abortion was also quite common. Greeks, Romans, and some early Christians (including, I believe Augustine) believed that a fetus was not "ensouled" until a mid-point in the pregnancy or even birth. Thus, abortion may not have been condemned per se in many medieval societies, although it might have been stigmatized as an indicator of sex out of wedlock and/or poverty.

Contraception is, to my knowledge, a huge problem in much of the world even today, and the earliest condoms etc didn't appear before the 18th century and then was an unconfortable rarity. I've heard of theories of various mild plants/poisons used, or thought used, for abortion/contraception, but if this is the case, do you have any links?

Btw, "whore" is a pretty negative term for people who have had a fairly raw deal in life, or have few other options.

Whore, if used to describe a prostitute, is not a derogatory word. It's pejorative only if used to describe someone who is not selling themselves. I tend to avoid euphemisms and the modern, clinical/technical terms.

 

[nijis]

Contraception is, to my knowledge, a huge problem in much of the world even today, and the earliest condoms etc didn't appear before the 18th century and then was an unconfortable rarity. I've heard of theories of various mild plants/poisons used, or thought used, for abortion/contraception, but if this is the case, do you have any links?

Wiki has a good history of abortion. The link below also is useful...

http://www.routledge-ny.com/ref/middleages/women/contra.html

Re contraception, it's a problem in the developing world mostly because people don't know about it or don't use it. It ain't hard to procure condoms even in very poor countries, but people often don't use them. There are vaginal suppositories, and a few other clunky solutions. Prostitutes are probably going to be the premiere source of knowledge on contraception in pre-industrial societies, so they'll be the ones making the most of what's out there -- herbs, vaginal suppositories, etc.

There remains the rhythm method, which is better than nothing if you know what you're doing. Annual failure rates have been estimated to run from 10 percent up to 24 percent, maybe even higher. However, even though the cycle is better understood now than it was before the 20th century, the contemporary studies probably account for inexpertise -- which is going to be less of be a problem for someone who's been in the business for years.

But abortion is probably going to be the main back-up. It's a risk, but probably less of one than actually carrying the child to term.

Or, some prostitutes have kids. In some places, that's how brothels perpetuate themselves.

At any rate, a 5 to 20 percent annual risk of pregnancy presents a risk, but probably not an insurmountable one.

An additional result of having sex with lots of men is that there's probably a fairly high chance of getting a sterility-inducing STD, whereas fatal STDs like syphilis or HIV weren't in circulation yet (although you can still catch meningitis, hepatitis/jaundice, or the Plague).

So, it's dangerous work -- but probably not significantly more dangerous than becoming a soldier.

Whore, if used to describe a prostitute, is not a derogatory word. It's pejorative only if used to describe someone who is not selling themselves. I tend to avoid euphemisms and the modern, clinical/technical terms.

Yeah, well, language evolves, and I suspect quite a few women making a living by selling sex would be unhappy with the term, then or now. But's your call.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

So, I read a little in "The Pillars of the Earth", specifically about whores, and some questions came to me.

... but I was curious as to preganancies in these times. I know men, especially men of status, in these times usually had a whole heap of bastards, but I find it hard to imagine how a whore, whether some poor beggar selling herself on the streets or some richer girl being hired by lesser nobles and merchants, would go through life. Wouldn't she get pregnant almost all the time?

brewer's yeast,[3] vitamin C,[4] wild carrot, blue cohosh, black cohosh, slippery elm, pennyroyal, nutmeg, mugwort, papaya, vervain, common rue, ergot and tansy

There's a whole lot more natural abortifacients too. The page has minimized the section on these remedies, I suppose from a certain pro-life member on the discussion page.

 

[Dudro]

Well, this post won't be as long or in depth as the others, but...
I saw a Manswers episode, where they talked about rival males, if having sex with the same woman, the woman is less likely to get pregnant because the two mens semen are like enemies, they kill each other off.

 

[Archonsod]

Not unless they both ejaculate at the same time. It is an issue if having sex within three days or so, but the first male's sperm still has full opportunity to fertilise.

 

[Bismarkpwns]

I think people were overly religious and fearful of divine retribution in many parts of the world through many times. I also know that prostitutes were very much accepted, or atleast not dealt with, in many places, and that the people who made the laws made frequent use of them. I've also heard that several known people, I think da Vinci was one of them, were punished by authorities for suspected sodomy, and that, at least in some places, it was a capital offence.
Thanks for the answers though, rather informative, but some more would be welcome.

Actually the reaoning behind this was that it would be better to let the perverts "satisfy" themselves before they do something evil, like rape a married women or even worse a young virgin.  The reasoning probably is false, but to them it was a "lesser evil" to prevent larger lust crimes.  That's right, the church at one time encouraged prostitutes, but only the kind in brothels of course, the ones on the street (much like today) are doomed to whatever fate hands them