Who Else Wants Decent Formations in Warband?

[Jean Plassy]

One of the most game breaking aspects in M&B for all open field battles was, well, how they resembled more of a tavern brawl than a true battle. This is especially true of large scale engagements, and all of that because most of the time there are no decent formations. Even a good formations mod won't solve the fact that cavalry will rush willy-nilly on the field and spread out while infantrymen will break formation and just run around the battlefield to be killed by cavalry.

No wonder then that this game is so heavily based around cavalry. In a brawl, the guy with the horse always wins. Infantry always relies on good and solid formations with disciplined infantrymen capable of not breaking ranks all the time, but this has always been conspicuously absent in every version of the game. Maybe in Warband there'll be an option for players to create permanent formations around one or more units (like a square) and set all soldiers to keep it running as long as possible and within all their means. This means no breaking away for pursuit of horsemen in the open and an attempt to keep collective cohesion and combat (like synch. fire) instead of a "each one for himself" mentality, which persists even when the player attempts to put units together.

And some units should have higher discipline and thus be better at doing it than just a bunch of conscripts would, that could create a realistic balance.

 

[corbaer]

I'd very much like more formations.  I'd also like a built in editor to build my own formation presets.

My experience however is that my infantry don't spread out if I tell them to stand closer.  Against an all cavalry army of Khegir I get all my infantry and archers to hold position on the closest small hill (any amount of incline helps).  I have them stand closer (and brave the arrows) then lead my cavalry in to break their line (defeating their strafing strategy).  I then have my cavalry follow me back to the line.  We pull much of the enemy forces into our line, where they promptly get swallowed.  Then I try to keep my cavalry in the vicinity of the line, where crossbowmen and archers pick off some, and braver lancers try to charge them.

I can usually take an army of 200+ vs my 80-90 (mixed level/faction) party.

 

[Jean Plassy]

Yes, it is indeed possible to take down enemy cavalry. In my experience though this was always outside of open terrain (a significant portion of the map) where I was lucky enough to find shallow water or hilly ground to stand. On open ground AND if outnumbered it's stop and pray because formations are often too thin to stop charging cavalry going at you. And the AI, well, they don't seem to understand how to use polearms effectively to break enemy cavalry; they just stand to get hammered by a full trot horseman.

The present system is IMHO, a bit too crude. It would be ground-breaking to be able to form your men into a single, deep rank formation like a pike square. Bracing spears is also a feature which should be a priority, since it will allow the polearm AI better ways to stop charges dead on their tracks.

This would also mean the rank-and-file of a formation would try to fight as an unit instead of as individuals. Imagine just a group of bowmen or ranged troops firing in a synchronised unisson at the enemy on the player's orders, or knights forming en haye and charging all together simultaneously instead of rushing to the enemy without the semblance of a charging formation. This would definetely make combat more interesting and open room for a more tactically rich battle system than the current disorganized slugging in all large scale engagements. The AI, to be true, does not understand how to use terrain to their advantage or to maintain a semblance of grouped infantry in the way the player already can perform, like putting their infantry atop a hill and telling them to stand closer and hold position. The result is that it is always too easy to mow down their footmen individually on the open.

 

[DanAngleland]

I read somewhere that we will be able to form a double line of infantry in the expansion, which will be an improvement at least. For the normal scale of M&B battles (ie without battlesizer mod) I think that's probably enough. I expect you've tried the formations mod(s), as I have. Sometimes the behaviour of the AI in the dense formations looks a bit strange, as they do stay in formation a bit too well, almost perfectly synchronised with each other. I don't think we're going to see anymore sophisticated Native formations than a double line- Armagan once said he would never include formations, so this is probably as much as he wants to go in that direction.

 

[Lord Shields]

Is there not a half dozen "what do you want" threads for posting your desire? There's actually one titled just that not three threads down.

 

[smarzotais]

YES AN EDITOR! a way to create formation hotkeys and **** ! unit A goes here when i press j... unit X goes here when i press f6 ! would be epic...  id make a giant  column