I'm writing this thread to inform new players of the strategic importance of Whitestag Castle for founding your own Kingdom.
There is already a thread discussing this: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,308343.msg7312796.html#msg7312796
I am going to talk about the honorable way to take and defend this stronghold because I just had a blast doing just that last night. I am assuming you play on AI "Good" for both map and battle. I am also assuming you play on full damage from NPCs.
Why is Whitestag strategic?
Planning.
Taking the Castle the Honorable way.
Using the Noldor to your defensive advantage.
Defending the walls.
There is already a thread discussing this: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,308343.msg7312796.html#msg7312796
I am going to talk about the honorable way to take and defend this stronghold because I just had a blast doing just that last night. I am assuming you play on AI "Good" for both map and battle. I am also assuming you play on full damage from NPCs.
Why is Whitestag strategic?
This is assuming you are playing down the suggested course and befriending the Nolder. Once you have the Nolder positive, they will leave you alone and chase other Lords. Often times in late game, there is one or two Noldor NPCs leading armies that will patrol right past Whitestag. In my current game, Both armies are spawned and have around 1,000 troops.
It is also one of the easiest castles to defend for both ranged and melee characters.
Additionally, it opens the opportunity to take Valorshield Castle next, which also boosts a good strategic defense via Jatu army patrols.
It is also one of the easiest castles to defend for both ranged and melee characters.
Additionally, it opens the opportunity to take Valorshield Castle next, which also boosts a good strategic defense via Jatu army patrols.
Planning.
There is two general strategies that work well for new players.
The first is to wait for a faction to be weakened in a losing war, and wait until they very few Castles/Cities. You can kind of alter exactly when you want to attack by join the faction and helping them fight for a bit, then talking to the king and leaving at the right moment. This will put you relation with them to zero. Then you just have to help a Noldor patrol fight one of their Lords. Or straight up attack a Lord/caravan/farmer by yourself, but you will loose honor. Try to wait for a point where they have plenty of Lord sitting around trying to recruit after being defeated. When I attacked, Sarleon held Whitestag and around five other castles. In Whitestag they had around 300 garrison troops and about six lords with around 20 men each.
The second strategy is to wait for another faction to take the castle. Once again you can kind of alter exactly when this happens by join ether side and helping fight when needed. To insure that a Noldor army does not interfere with your plans, you can trail a Jatu army or patrol into the woods and use it as bait if the Noldor army is headed towards Whitestag. The trick is to do circles far enough away so that the Jatu will not notice the Sieging force, yet close enough so that you can spot the Noldor army incoming. If they are incoming, try to get them to give chase to the Jatu before noticing the sieging force. If the Jatu try to run, you can CAREFULLY talk to them and then leave repeatedly to set their pace so that the Noldor chase them away from Whitestag. You could even enter the battle and practice setting up formations in the hardest way possible because Jatu generally hit the battle field already charging, But I do not recommend it because you have a high chance of get injured and not healing in time for the castle assualt to come.
After the faction has hopefully taken Whitestag, you want to follow steps simular to the first strategy to lower your relations and initiate the attack. If all goes as planned, they will leave a minimal garrison and go feast or something.
The first is to wait for a faction to be weakened in a losing war, and wait until they very few Castles/Cities. You can kind of alter exactly when you want to attack by join the faction and helping them fight for a bit, then talking to the king and leaving at the right moment. This will put you relation with them to zero. Then you just have to help a Noldor patrol fight one of their Lords. Or straight up attack a Lord/caravan/farmer by yourself, but you will loose honor. Try to wait for a point where they have plenty of Lord sitting around trying to recruit after being defeated. When I attacked, Sarleon held Whitestag and around five other castles. In Whitestag they had around 300 garrison troops and about six lords with around 20 men each.
The second strategy is to wait for another faction to take the castle. Once again you can kind of alter exactly when this happens by join ether side and helping fight when needed. To insure that a Noldor army does not interfere with your plans, you can trail a Jatu army or patrol into the woods and use it as bait if the Noldor army is headed towards Whitestag. The trick is to do circles far enough away so that the Jatu will not notice the Sieging force, yet close enough so that you can spot the Noldor army incoming. If they are incoming, try to get them to give chase to the Jatu before noticing the sieging force. If the Jatu try to run, you can CAREFULLY talk to them and then leave repeatedly to set their pace so that the Noldor chase them away from Whitestag. You could even enter the battle and practice setting up formations in the hardest way possible because Jatu generally hit the battle field already charging, But I do not recommend it because you have a high chance of get injured and not healing in time for the castle assualt to come.
After the faction has hopefully taken Whitestag, you want to follow steps simular to the first strategy to lower your relations and initiate the attack. If all goes as planned, they will leave a minimal garrison and go feast or something.
Taking the Castle the Honorable way.
This is an area that I'm not very good at to be honest and would appretiate some input from other more experienced players. We have heard time and time again that you can bring half of your army in archer, exhaust all of your ammo and then retreat; rinse and repeat, But you lose honor and it is an unworthy tactic to say the least. The fact that an army archers can magically create a quiver of arrows each instantly is kind of a unavoidable hole in the game.
My strategy that I used was pretty simple. Have at least 1/3 of your infantry with shields. Put your infantry in shield wall and get them just in position to where they are drawing the attention of the arrows, but far enough to where they are least accurate. Snug your archers in a stagger line directly behind them and hope for the best exchange ratio. I had plenty of ravenstern mounted rangers along with a mix of some Pendor archers, Sarleon longbowmen, and some odds-and-ends.
And for the love of god, stand behind a tree or something.
Once I had a decent amount of enemy archers killed (about 20) I charged forward my infantry before enemy reinforcements brought more archers to the walls. At this point you want to move your archers forward also into a position where the have a clear shot at the ladder, break their formation, (key "U") and order them to spread out (F2 - F3). This will help keep them alive slightly.
At this point you also want to charge in your cavalry because you don't want a moment where your infantry has almost breached the walls, but your reinforcements have arrived too late and the enemy is able to reestablish the ladder defense.
The name of the game here is you help your troops get kills, whether you are a ranged or melee character, find a strategy that is very cautious. You don't want to get 15 kills quickly and then get knocked out and watch the rest of the battle... You want to take your time and get easy kill while protecting yourself, and last the entire battle picking of the enemy when convenient. Don't be afraid to back down the ladder if you think you need to wait for another reinforcement wave.
My strategy that I used was pretty simple. Have at least 1/3 of your infantry with shields. Put your infantry in shield wall and get them just in position to where they are drawing the attention of the arrows, but far enough to where they are least accurate. Snug your archers in a stagger line directly behind them and hope for the best exchange ratio. I had plenty of ravenstern mounted rangers along with a mix of some Pendor archers, Sarleon longbowmen, and some odds-and-ends.
And for the love of god, stand behind a tree or something.
Once I had a decent amount of enemy archers killed (about 20) I charged forward my infantry before enemy reinforcements brought more archers to the walls. At this point you want to move your archers forward also into a position where the have a clear shot at the ladder, break their formation, (key "U") and order them to spread out (F2 - F3). This will help keep them alive slightly.
At this point you also want to charge in your cavalry because you don't want a moment where your infantry has almost breached the walls, but your reinforcements have arrived too late and the enemy is able to reestablish the ladder defense.
The name of the game here is you help your troops get kills, whether you are a ranged or melee character, find a strategy that is very cautious. You don't want to get 15 kills quickly and then get knocked out and watch the rest of the battle... You want to take your time and get easy kill while protecting yourself, and last the entire battle picking of the enemy when convenient. Don't be afraid to back down the ladder if you think you need to wait for another reinforcement wave.
Using the Noldor to your defensive advantage.
Most of the time, a sieging force will be scattered at the presence of a patrolling Noldor army. But, because of the way Auto-calc works, an enemy marshal with 2,200 or more troops will sometimes pile onto a Nolder army and win. All you have to do is join on the Noldor side, and take the field. You will be at a Tactical disadvantage and will start with far less troops than the enemy. Having yourself or a companion with max Tactics can help curve this, but it will not make it even.
The first and most important step is to tell everyone to hold fire. (F3 - F1) The Noldor archers can literally shoot across the entire battle field if they can see the enemy. At first you might think this is good, but what happens is there will most likely get an early kill, and most Lords will call an all out charge in response to close the gap before you have time to set up your battle line. Also the Noldor will use half of their arrows before the melee starts and will run out fairly quickly. It is important to wait until the enemy is close to maximize the kill potential.
Set up infantry (as there often times is plenty recruited from their prisoners) in a shield wall and park your archers behind them on an incline in Staggered Line Formation. (key "J") If you do not have enough to make a formation, simply tell your foot troops to stand closer. (F2 - F4) The idea here is to prevent any enemy cavalry/infantry from getting to your archers. Basic stuff.
Set your cavalry off to the side, but not far enough forward or else the enemy will charge his Cavalry into yours. It is also always important to tell your cavalry to Mount as soon as the battle field loads, (F2 - F5) because sometime they will feel trapped and dismount.
When you are using this strategy with your archers snug behind a shield wall you will often see the enemy zig-zag his cavalry in the open field. I am not sure if they are confused trying to figure out a plan, or if they are trying to bait a response.
Wait until the enemy is within "normal" archer range before telling your archers to fire-at-will (F3 - F2). Sometimes the enemy will take up a defensive position, especially when they have a nice hill to defend. Is these cases, ride forward and try to pick off a soft target. This will usually send a clear message that you are on the defensive. If your character does not use a bow, then you will have to bring up your cavalry and call a fire-at-will followed by a hold-fire quickly until you set the stage. (F3 - F2, F3 - F1) Then immediately send your cavalry back behind your line and off to one side a bit.
Once the main force is engaged, be wary of your archers, you will often have to back them up a bit so that they don't feel that they need to switch to swords. Unless you are a murdering powerhouse, your best position will be defending your archer from any troop that get near them.
Try to send your cavalry around the enemy force after infantry has engaged. With a little micromanagement on the tactical map (Backspace key), you can have them keep their distance and rain arrows into the back of the enemy where their shield will not protect them.
Once the main enemy force is wrecked, start moving your troops towards their side of the map. The idea is to get your archer rally point in a position where they have a clear shot onto the enemy spawn. Set your infantry in a position to protect them. Once your are set up on their side, call your cavalry to charge. (F1 - F3) If all goes as planned they will mostly circle around picking off and distracting the enemy reinforcements.
Above all don't try to play hero, because if you get knocked out multiple times, (depending on your battle size, how many battles, first-aid) you will not be able to take the field anymore. This is a mistake I have made many times. It's easy to start cleaning up and then catch a javelin headshot or get stuck right in the middle of a fresh reinforcement wave.
The first and most important step is to tell everyone to hold fire. (F3 - F1) The Noldor archers can literally shoot across the entire battle field if they can see the enemy. At first you might think this is good, but what happens is there will most likely get an early kill, and most Lords will call an all out charge in response to close the gap before you have time to set up your battle line. Also the Noldor will use half of their arrows before the melee starts and will run out fairly quickly. It is important to wait until the enemy is close to maximize the kill potential.
Set up infantry (as there often times is plenty recruited from their prisoners) in a shield wall and park your archers behind them on an incline in Staggered Line Formation. (key "J") If you do not have enough to make a formation, simply tell your foot troops to stand closer. (F2 - F4) The idea here is to prevent any enemy cavalry/infantry from getting to your archers. Basic stuff.
Set your cavalry off to the side, but not far enough forward or else the enemy will charge his Cavalry into yours. It is also always important to tell your cavalry to Mount as soon as the battle field loads, (F2 - F5) because sometime they will feel trapped and dismount.
When you are using this strategy with your archers snug behind a shield wall you will often see the enemy zig-zag his cavalry in the open field. I am not sure if they are confused trying to figure out a plan, or if they are trying to bait a response.
Wait until the enemy is within "normal" archer range before telling your archers to fire-at-will (F3 - F2). Sometimes the enemy will take up a defensive position, especially when they have a nice hill to defend. Is these cases, ride forward and try to pick off a soft target. This will usually send a clear message that you are on the defensive. If your character does not use a bow, then you will have to bring up your cavalry and call a fire-at-will followed by a hold-fire quickly until you set the stage. (F3 - F2, F3 - F1) Then immediately send your cavalry back behind your line and off to one side a bit.
Once the main force is engaged, be wary of your archers, you will often have to back them up a bit so that they don't feel that they need to switch to swords. Unless you are a murdering powerhouse, your best position will be defending your archer from any troop that get near them.
Try to send your cavalry around the enemy force after infantry has engaged. With a little micromanagement on the tactical map (Backspace key), you can have them keep their distance and rain arrows into the back of the enemy where their shield will not protect them.
Once the main enemy force is wrecked, start moving your troops towards their side of the map. The idea is to get your archer rally point in a position where they have a clear shot onto the enemy spawn. Set your infantry in a position to protect them. Once your are set up on their side, call your cavalry to charge. (F1 - F3) If all goes as planned they will mostly circle around picking off and distracting the enemy reinforcements.
Above all don't try to play hero, because if you get knocked out multiple times, (depending on your battle size, how many battles, first-aid) you will not be able to take the field anymore. This is a mistake I have made many times. It's easy to start cleaning up and then catch a javelin headshot or get stuck right in the middle of a fresh reinforcement wave.
Defending the walls.
Often you can't count on a Noldor army. Maybe none are spawned or they are off chasing someone or they just decided that they would rather avoid Whitestag and see how you can handle yourself.
Well fear not, because at Whitestag as few ass 300 men can hold off thousands. You just need to set an example for your men and kill a few ladder climbers. Actually hundreds.
Let's first go over the place NOT to stand.
If you stand here you WILL catch an arrow or bolt. It's temping to peak over and take a shot, but trust me, it is not worth it.
If you have a super accurate shot and you feel inclined to take out a few enemy archers/crossbowmen, you should try to line up shots through the arrow-slits, like this one shown here.
For ranged character, you will do your blessed work from this overlook.
The ladder will be rested directly below you. Being on the right side of the ladder will ensure that your shots will not be blocked by shields, because in the low-fantasy world of Pendor, left-handed peoples have been hunted to extinction.
You must pick off the attacked towards the top of the ladder, because if you shoot low, there collision mesh issue with the wall and your arrows will stick in mid-air. I find it best to wait until they are at the very top. They will then pause for a second to line up a strike and their heads will poke just above the battlement. This gives you a window of time to line up the headshot for almost guaranteed kills. (depending on your bow and powerdraw) If you have max powerdraw and a runebow/Noldor bow OR powerdraw 8 with a Rubyrune bow OR a Siege Xbow, then feel free to just tag them in their ribs as fast as you can.
When you run out of arrows, just look on the ground of your battlement. There will most likely be quivers left from your troops getting nailed. In the case that you use a Xbow, then you better have Xbow troops. If there is no quivers, then you have a decision to make quickly, because you need to keep killing before the attackers break through. You can ether beg the gods to forgive you and kill one of your archers for their arrows, or hustle your ass down to the Melee position.
This is the Melee position.
The ladder will be rested directly in front of you. You position yourself to your right side of the ladder.
The trick here is to bring a good strong two-handed or polearm weapon with good reach. I used a runed bastard sword with two hands, even though I am primarily a one-handed and shield character. You must stand close enough so that a defender will not take your spot, yet far enough so that an attacker can not strike you as soon as he pops over the ladder.
The strategy is you weave forwards and back with overhead swings. You want to come forward just enough to land the hit and give yourself a small speed boost to your damage, and then back up as soon as it hits as to avoid any strikes. Once you get the rhythm down, you will be laying them out with head-blows.
The most interesting thing about the enemy coming over the ladder at Whitestag is that they will almost always turn to their right as to push up towards the archer battlement. This leave you with open backs when they start to push in. The key is to kill them quickly and hold them to the ladder!
Well fear not, because at Whitestag as few ass 300 men can hold off thousands. You just need to set an example for your men and kill a few ladder climbers. Actually hundreds.
Let's first go over the place NOT to stand.
If you stand here you WILL catch an arrow or bolt. It's temping to peak over and take a shot, but trust me, it is not worth it.
If you have a super accurate shot and you feel inclined to take out a few enemy archers/crossbowmen, you should try to line up shots through the arrow-slits, like this one shown here.
For ranged character, you will do your blessed work from this overlook.
The ladder will be rested directly below you. Being on the right side of the ladder will ensure that your shots will not be blocked by shields, because in the low-fantasy world of Pendor, left-handed peoples have been hunted to extinction.
You must pick off the attacked towards the top of the ladder, because if you shoot low, there collision mesh issue with the wall and your arrows will stick in mid-air. I find it best to wait until they are at the very top. They will then pause for a second to line up a strike and their heads will poke just above the battlement. This gives you a window of time to line up the headshot for almost guaranteed kills. (depending on your bow and powerdraw) If you have max powerdraw and a runebow/Noldor bow OR powerdraw 8 with a Rubyrune bow OR a Siege Xbow, then feel free to just tag them in their ribs as fast as you can.
When you run out of arrows, just look on the ground of your battlement. There will most likely be quivers left from your troops getting nailed. In the case that you use a Xbow, then you better have Xbow troops. If there is no quivers, then you have a decision to make quickly, because you need to keep killing before the attackers break through. You can ether beg the gods to forgive you and kill one of your archers for their arrows, or hustle your ass down to the Melee position.
This is the Melee position.
The ladder will be rested directly in front of you. You position yourself to your right side of the ladder.
The trick here is to bring a good strong two-handed or polearm weapon with good reach. I used a runed bastard sword with two hands, even though I am primarily a one-handed and shield character. You must stand close enough so that a defender will not take your spot, yet far enough so that an attacker can not strike you as soon as he pops over the ladder.
The strategy is you weave forwards and back with overhead swings. You want to come forward just enough to land the hit and give yourself a small speed boost to your damage, and then back up as soon as it hits as to avoid any strikes. Once you get the rhythm down, you will be laying them out with head-blows.
The most interesting thing about the enemy coming over the ladder at Whitestag is that they will almost always turn to their right as to push up towards the archer battlement. This leave you with open backs when they start to push in. The key is to kill them quickly and hold them to the ladder!
