That is actually a brilliant idea, that would break the "I need to put a focus point into this to level it up so I can get another focus point"
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Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?
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Maximum997
Squire
Yes. Thats why i trying to say it over and over again. So may be developers will see, that players love this idea.
I guess it is even possible for modders.
Yes, that is a definite no matter the type of leveling system they use. I suppose in Warband you also grew proficiencies faster by hitting low level thinly armored dudes than high tier heavy armoured cavalry, right? But back then it wasn't that much of an issue because proficiencies were mostly a secondary thing you didn't have to think about.
Maximum997
Squire
In Warband it is more easy to gain skillpoints on looters. Or even go to arena.
But if you want to lvl up - it is better to farm elite troops.
Also, do you get more bow XP right now by hitting harder shots? I remember in Warband if I was lucky enough to get a headshot from afar as low level noob I would automatically get at least 3 levels. Now there doesn't seem to be any difference atm.
Yes of course. So they basically imported the proficiency system from Warband without considering the effect it would have on the fact that now you will become much better overall by fighting naked drooling retards than by fighting Ironclad Champion on Steroids.
Maximum997
Squire
Harder shots - yes. BUT:
Looters have no shields.
Looters have no armor.
So it is more efiicient to farm them.
For melee it is even worse.
Warband rewards you with XP. In BL you have no rewards, only penalties for fighting hard enemies. Hard challenge = good reward is THE MAIN STONE of good game design. And right now it is kinda broken.
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I respectfully disagree. Not out of hand, there are many cases where this is true. That said, Mount and Blade is a realistic experience by design, and the game design you speak of can interfere with realism by sort of "pulling back the curtain", if you will, on the mechanics side of the game.
A good example of this is The Division. Many people had problems with The Division's game design in that enemies were able to take tons of shots based on their level purely for the sake of giving the player something to progress towards. Now obviously these cases aren't identical, but you see what I mean about the basic principle of challenge gradients and an immersive game.
You know what, maybe I'm stupid but I don't think I understood all that well how the skill system works.
You have 2 points to invest every level and all those 2 points do is increase the cap for each skill, but then you actually level the skill by using it right? I ask because those 2 points every level seem completely useless to me, I could have say One-Hand Weapon up to 100 cap right now but I can barely get the actuall skill past 30 and I use it all the time, it basically removes any sense in actual level ups
You have 2 points to invest every level and all those 2 points do is increase the cap for each skill, but then you actually level the skill by using it right? I ask because those 2 points every level seem completely useless to me, I could have say One-Hand Weapon up to 100 cap right now but I can barely get the actuall skill past 30 and I use it all the time, it basically removes any sense in actual level ups
White Ahroun
Banned
There's a difference between level scaling and progression, though. Like I'm not one of those guys that kicks the **** out of looters just to get levels up. I play it straight. But it's possible to use EXP and still feel pretty organic. Just up to the player to use the EXP responsibly. If they wanna be clever ****s and use EXP earned with bows to level up their Stewardship, who am I to tell them they can't? I'll point and laugh, but I won't tell them they can't.
Basically the focus points let you specialize. As you level up you can specialize in more things. Execution needs some balance, but in theory I like the system.
I am not disagreeing that something needs to change, but I fully disagree that they should implement global exp into this game from warband, that is just taking something that was broke and adding something broke. They will fix it, but hopefully not like that because now you are leveling up your trading because you were a super swordsman, just as broke as what we have right now.
I actually made a thread about this for combat skills not too long ago:
Some people dug around in the game files, and it seems that the calculation for xp does take into account unit level, and you definitely get more xp from a killshot. However, the formula still favors dealing higher damage, and because high level units are armored it seems that the amount of experience you get from fighting a lowly looter is comparable to what you get from an armored unit, if not higher. I observed that myself for the polearm skill in a test.
So it's a bit more complicated than just dealing high damage, but it's definitely looking funky.
Cool, so they did take it into account. Now they just need to tweak those numbers and give higher weight to enemy tier than damage, no?
That's not what he meant. The system would be similar to what we have now, except the general character level up would be based on general XP earned instead of number of Skill Points leveled up. You would still level up Trading Skill by doing trading and Polearm Skill by fighting with Polearms and not by allocating Skill Points like in Warband.
This would get rid of many of the quirks of the current system (like you basically having to get better at trading and charm so that you can level up bow skill because if you focus only on bow skill you counter-intuitively are slower to level up bow skill) while keeping the exact same spirit. That's because to get from level 1 to level 2 in bow you need say 300Xp, but to get from level 100 to level 101 you need say 300,000Xp. But that same Xp, bundled together with the Xp you get from all other skills would get uploaded to your general Xp which allows you to level up your character. So you don't get an incentive to leveling up your useless Throwing skill if you're never planning on using throwing weapons, for example.
LEEKING2005
Recruit
I think since my last suggestion of comparing how awkward to shoot on horse in Bannerlord comparing to Fire & sword they had smooth out the arrow tracking miscalculation and release system physics a bit. Now I can actually hit someone on my horse instead of random miscalculation regarding my horse running speed and direction with their running speed and direction.
Aside the miscalculation they also smooth out the freaking "unable to release when I wanted to issues", now there is still some minor gaps that you can only release your arrow after a short while you pull it, but the gaps had significantly shorter.
I seem to remember in Fire and sword you can release whenever you want, just that it might suffer in term of power, range and sometime accuracy depending how quick you release. As I mentioned, the split seconds delay in releasing will 100% make you miss your opponent because how quick the flow in horse archery battle.
The things you suffer probably is because of your riding skill and bow skill is too low. Also they implement a new mechanism that if you try to move while shooting your crosshair indicator will grow bigger due to imbalance (and that mean accuracy suffer cause you can shoot generally anywhere within your crosshair, just like the gun in fire and sword. It's kind of random but if you get close enough you can still shoot people using a big crosshair. That's how I train my riding and bow in early game, get close to those 20+ looters but don't get hit by stone).
Now I got 189 soft capped bow and 165+ riding skill, plus after the patch only I can reliably shooting someone on horse back. Even though i can't seem to achieve sniping people head when they shielded up on horse like I was in Fire & Sword, I believe horse archery is now a viable build in Bannerlord.
PS: After I experimental on the skill leveling system a bit I think I found some flaws in it. The attributes point should not affect skill's level cap cause i don't think the grouping is fair and peoples generally don't like to wasting time on one hand sword if their favorites is Polearm.
To remedy the unfair & unnecessary grouping system I think attributes best just serve as attack power & shield breaking damage % in "Vigor"; accuracy, pulling speed, armor penetration/damage for "Control"; Stamina, turn rates, damage received reduction in "Endurance"; ability to avoid detection, maintain high morale, % to sneak through armies of guard in "Cunning"; Quest reward, relationship % boost, Army party sizes % boost, and passive income/renown/influences boost in "social"; Extra skills learning speed %, Army party sizes % boost, % to reduce death in troops, attack power and building speed for engineering project in "Intelligence" or something similar with those.
Also can change the focus point earn from 1 to 2 points per level but every skill now had 10 focus point limit to remedy about players complaining progression is too slow.
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Boomstomp123
Recruit
Its a good idea if actually works but some of the skills in the skill trees don't make sense im thinking of two handed that the second line has to do with garrison management that has nothing to do with two handed stuff like that.
Pretty much, yes.
Right I understand what he means. My issue is that If their goal is to make the game more realistic, that plan is moving in reverse. You are suggesting that by doing random things you can be better at learning something else. I don't like the system of having focus points, and just like OP said the attribute points (as far as I can tell) are a completely redundant and arbitrary things because all they do is add more skill gain...just like the focus points. What you are both suggesting is to make the game leveling system faster by allowing your character to have a level which is something they more or less have removed from the game Though it is an answer, I don't agree that it is the best answer, or to be honest a good one. All that needs to be done at this point is tuning of what they have in place and minor adjustments. I would like to see the focus point system either removed, or to be a little more accessible such as by doing quests for a blacksmith etc giving you more skill gain in that skill. Again, I don't like the focus point system as it stands, but I like it a lot more than a global sp bank that really just makes another warband. I personally feel like they are on the right track and need to sort out what is going on, but if they do what you are suggesting they are just falling back to something old that they did before. Not saying you are wrong, just saying I disagree.
Wow man, that is super cool, glad you (or someone) found that. Definitely broken as it stands if that is true.
I'm not sure it would be perfect, as i still think the skill groupings (through attributes) and the overlap of focus point and attributes is strange and in my oppinion unnessecary hassle, but otherwise i completly agree with this being a needed thing.
