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Which culture is most in need of armor/clothing model variety?

Which cultures need more armor/clothing variety? (You can pick two.)

  • Aserai

    Votes: 23 19.5%
  • Battania

    Votes: 9 7.6%
  • Empire

    Votes: 43 36.4%
  • Khuzait

    Votes: 15 12.7%
  • Sturgia

    Votes: 20 16.9%
  • Vlandia

    Votes: 64 54.2%
  • None; the existing variety is good enough

    Votes: 1 0.8%

  • Total voters
    118

Users who are viewing this thread

Lord Dio

Recruit
I think Sturgia has completely ass inventory, and needs a dramatic change. Otherwise, I think the Aserai should have far more. After that, Vlandia. Other than that...all of the factions need serious color changes and management, especially the Empire. Everything in this game is color-dead or on the verge of it.
I voted for Sturgia. Their low tier troops are horrible.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I voted for Sturgia. Their low tier troops are horrible.

Honestly, everything about them is horrible. It's like the effort applied to Sturgia ranks at 1. lol

I don't get how anyone is voting for Vlandia over the others. This is about which one needs more now, not which of your favorites needs more now. xD
 

five bucks

Squire
There is basically no shoulder pieces for them at all... I'm assuming that the 'look' for them is a mail hauberk, so there isn't really much that can be done there. Perhaps a mail coif version of the existing lowered hood? Some plate pauldrons on the shoulder or a primitive gorget?
@Antaeus Yeah it is a bit limited if you want to stay within solely the Norman look and go no further than 1100.
However there is some potential still. A mail coif is a good idea. Speaking of mail, a nice neat-looking mail shoulders item could go well. And a large cloak would be nice.

You could also take inspiration from earlier Western Europeans than the Normans. Maybe some "crenellated" looking cloth belts and fringes, as in 3 and 8.
TMT_carolingian_soldiers.jpg

Seems like just a couple more shoulder pieces, and perhaps a singular new torso piece and head piece, is all that's needed to round out the Vlandian aesthetic.

Another easy way to add visual diversity would be to apply faction-coloured paint to existing helmet pieces, as one guy did in the Creative Unit Aesthetics Archive. And you could add a golden belt to existing tabards to make a "luxury tabard".
ccf68369e043a2b802e36459a7556082.jpg

I voted for Sturgia. Their low tier troops are horrible.
Honestly, everything about them is horrible. It's like the effort applied to Sturgia ranks at 1. lol

I don't get how anyone is voting for Vlandia over the others. This is about which one needs more now, not which of your favorites needs more now. xD
Thanks for the input, which slot would you say is missing armor variety for low tier troops? Head, shoulders, torso, lower legs/feet, lower arms/hands?
 

Lord Dio

Recruit
They do not incorporate enough fur into their armors. There is very little difference between Celtic and Eastern Slavic Tribesmen. Mail was rare in its day. Generally animal pelts were used in winter more than the game seriously considers.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
@Antaeus Yeah it is a bit limited if you want to stay within solely the Norman look and go no further than 1100.
However there is some potential still. A mail coif is a good idea. Speaking of mail, a nice neat-looking mail shoulders item could go well. And a large cloak would be nice.

You could also take inspiration from earlier Western Europeans than the Normans. Maybe some "crenellated" looking cloth belts and fringes, as in 3 and 8.
TMT_carolingian_soldiers.jpg

Seems like just a couple more shoulder pieces, and perhaps a singular new torso piece and head piece, is all that's needed to round out the Vlandian aesthetic.

Another easy way to add visual diversity would be to apply faction-coloured paint to existing helmet pieces, as one guy did in the Creative Unit Aesthetics Archive. And you could add a golden belt to existing tabards to make a "luxury tabard".
ccf68369e043a2b802e36459a7556082.jpg



Thanks for the input, which slot would you say is missing armor variety for low tier troops? Head, shoulders, torso, lower legs/feet, lower arms/hands?

Honestly? All of it. I guess if I had to pick one I thought was lacking more than the others, it would probably bee torso or lower arms.
 

nereid

Sergeant
There is basically no shoulder pieces for them at all... I'm assuming that the 'look' for them is a mail hauberk, so there isn't really much that can be done there. Perhaps a mail coif version of the existing lowered hood? Some plate pauldrons on the shoulder or a primitive
gorget?

I think there is already something a bit awkward about how Vlandian coifs look in game - it seems like they're all raised up on a wooden block.
You could expand on the mail shoulder part available for the Sturgians. Create it in the same color as the Vlandian mail and add a lowered hood or some other straps to it (the Sturgian mail shoulder is a little too shiny for the Vlandian mail variants). You could also combine the mail and padded shoulder parts for a higher armored version, for example mail over padding, with or without lowered mail hood. Or add some sort of brigandine parts for the shoulders.

Additionally I would like to see some added mail coifs under some helmets. I do like the new helmets with the face plate (either in iron or bronze) but the neck looks a little bit naked and undefended.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I don't get how anyone is voting for Vlandia over the others.
To me they just look the most "Medieval Europe" with a sprinkle of "messy" for realism and their lore as mercenaries. It's not the most exciting or aesthetically pleasing look. Sturgia at least has bits of fur here and there, Empire has some late Roman look, while Aserai and Khuzaits are exotic.
 
IMO, Vlandia needs some pieces outright removed.

I'm talking about those ugly helmets with the visors that look bolted on. Chuck them out, add more painted helmets and surcoats with custom coat of arms.
 

Earth Dragon

Sergeant
To me they just look the most "Medieval Europe" with a sprinkle of "messy" for realism and their lore as mercenaries. It's not the most exciting or aesthetically pleasing look. Sturgia at least has bits of fur here and there, Empire has some late Roman look, while Aserai and Khuzaits are exotic.
This has always been a silly stance to me though. Normans and Franks are the center of what we romanticize the look of the medieval period. So a look that’s been over applied to everyone else that’s then stripped away from them doesn’t mean we need to put “fake” bells and whistles on the host faction that embodies much of the romanticized look.

They have very unique helms and armors in contrast to the other factions and a deep variety. They don’t need “fantasy” elements to make them special
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
To me they just look the most "Medieval Europe" with a sprinkle of "messy" for realism and their lore as mercenaries. It's not the most exciting or aesthetically pleasing look. Sturgia at least has bits of fur here and there, Empire has some late Roman look, while Aserai and Khuzaits are exotic.

They are definitely among the few who are "okay", that's for sure. Sturgia is a proper mess. It is alsost insulting to even look at, that's how bad it is. It may not be everyone's favorite faction, but the state it is in now is a tragedy. lol
 
The differences between the empire factions should be subtle. But for example as the Northern Empire is mostly located in the colder parts of the climate I would hope to see some fur elements used in their outfits (Sturgian touches). The same could be applied to the Western Empire (some Roman touches) and the Southern Empire (some Khuzait and Aserai touches).

I like where you're going with this but I don't think the Northern Empire -- the faction lead by traditionalist oligarchs who think that things should go back to the good old days of the republic -- would be too keen on adopting barbarian flourishes in their armor. They're in the northern part of the Empire but it's hardly frigid there. The Northern Empire is likeliest to be most traditionally Calradian (but this should probably look late Roman, not republican Roman -- something that looks like a dated but immediate predecessor of the current Byzantine flavor Calradic Empire and looks very ornate with stylized echoes of more classical stuff). Late Antiquity gets rarely used in games, whereas classical Roman and Byzantine both get used all the time. I think the Northern Empire, based on the lore, would fit a Late Antique Western Empire vibe pretty well.

Wee can see existing imerial regional variation in how the imperial crowns are set up, which are currently the only regional Empire equipment.

The Northern Empire battle crown is a late antique jeweled Roman ridge helmet -- from the late Empire, but covered in jewels and likely based on crowns worn by Roman emperors or high imperial officers. The Northern Empire civilian crown is a laurel wreath, which is the traditional Calradic crown-that-is-not-a-crown worn by Calradian emperors from Arenicos back to the beginning (see the Empire's original faction blog entry). Northern Empire troops are likely closest to traditional Imperial professional legions in style, though I think they should again have a Late Antique appearance so that they look like the immediate predecessor of the current Byzantine vibe that Arenicos brought in instead of something from centuries long ago.

The Western Empire battle crown is ALSO a late antique Roman ridge helmet, but it's more simplified and lacks the jewels. The Western Empire civilian crown on the other hand, is nearly identical to the Southern Empire's civilian crown with some minor differences in the jewels. In other words, the Western Empire takes elements of both imperial tradition (Northern) and dynastic innovation (southern) but uses them in a more military fashion. Since Garios's name is based on Arenicos that makes sense. I also expect that since Garios is next to the Vlandian frontier, this is a place where geographic adoption makes sense -- the Vlandian guard being the former bodyguards of the emperor (this is an innovation of Arenicos, but Garios would likely try to imitate his military glory and proclaim he's a better heir to Arenicos than Ira is). They probably adjusted their tactics and equipment to deal with the Vlandians.

Finally, the Southern Empire's battle crown is a crowned helmet based on a Byzantine model (technically based on St. Stephen's crown from Hungary, but that is a modified Byzantine imperial princess's crown) and their civilian crown is the bottom band of the same crown (which is the most Byzantine part of it). So while the entire Calradic Empire is "Byzantine," the Southern Empire is probably the core of the Empire of Arenicos and would use the most Byzantine-style troops that he brought into play.

tl;dr: we already see regional variation in the three empires based on the design of imperial battle and civilian crowns, and based on the lore, and Imperial equipment variation should follow the same pattern of Northern Empire == Calradian republican tradition with Late Western Imperial Roman appearance, Western Empire == military innovation and adaptation, Southern Empire == the most ornate and courtly Byzantine elements. There should be some military adaptation based on the foes each empire is facing, but primarily the differences in the three Empires should be based on the personality of THOSE parts of the 3-way civil war and not just on their barbarian opponents.
 

five bucks

Squire
They have very unique helms and armors in contrast to the other factions and a deep variety.
Do they really have a deep variety? They don't even have any of their own shoulder armor pieces. Let's look at their top-tier troops.
EYy6YII.jpg

Voulgier and Pikeman have almost the same helmet, Vanguard and Sergeant have almost the same helmet, Voulgier and Sergeant have the same body armor, Sergeant is literally wearing Imperial shoulder armor.
It's not a bad thing for troops to share some armor but I wouldn't call it "deep". They could definitely do with a few more culturally unique armor/cloak pieces for shoulder slot, torso slot, and maybe a variant "painted" version of existing helmets that would change them visually.
They don’t need “fantasy” elements to make them special
True; we can use historical stuff from a bit earlier than the Normans and still stay within Bannerlord's setting.
 
Do they really have a deep variety? They don't even have any of their own shoulder armor pieces. Let's look at their top-tier troops.
EYy6YII.jpg

Voulgier and Pikeman have almost the same helmet, Vanguard and Sergeant have almost the same helmet, Voulgier and Sergeant have the same body armor, Sergeant is literally wearing Imperial shoulder armor.
It's not a bad thing for troops to share some armor but I wouldn't call it "deep". They could definitely do with a few more culturally unique armor/cloak pieces for shoulder slot, torso slot, and maybe a variant "painted" version of existing helmets that would change them visually.

True; we can use historical stuff from a bit earlier than the Normans and still stay within Bannerlord's setting.
Ugliest sh*t ever. Its not even just that there's a lack of variety. Actually, Vlandia has quite a few helmets they could use.

The problem is that they don't bother to use them. Oh, and again those visor helmets are abominable.

I seriously, seriously wish TW went a bit bolder with the Vlandians and made them actually look proto Swadian, rather than Swadia without the great helms. I mean, why can't we get this:

npW9d.jpg

This can’t be understated. The big mistake was making all the Imperial factions purple. If one was purple, one was black, and the other was white, they’d immediately pop
I don't think the colours of the empires is the point of their post. Rather, the colours present in armies as they are. Not enough variety, they're all the same shade.
 
Ugliest sh*t ever. Its not even just that there's a lack of variety. Actually, Vlandia has quite a few helmets they could use.

The problem is that they don't bother to use them. Oh, and again those visor helmets are abominable.

I seriously, seriously wish TW went a bit bolder with the Vlandians and made them actually look proto Swadian, rather than Swadia without the great helms. I mean, why can't we get this:

npW9d.jpg


I don't think the colours of the empires is the point of their post. Rather, the colours present in armies as they are. Not enough variety, they're all the same shade.
It does help when fighting empire vs empire while playing without floating banners, or fighting against an enemy with you cultures unit in its rank. Although the colours are not distinct enough in the dark. I hope that when the banners are included this would be less needed and the overall colour shade is restricted to 1 or 2 armor pieces.
 

DB Coper

Banned
@Antaeus Yeah it is a bit limited if you want to stay within solely the Norman look and go no further than 1100.
However there is some potential still. A mail coif is a good idea. Speaking of mail, a nice neat-looking mail shoulders item could go well. And a large cloak would be nice.

You could also take inspiration from earlier Western Europeans than the Normans. Maybe some "crenellated" looking cloth belts and fringes, as in 3 and 8.
TMT_carolingian_soldiers.jpg

Seems like just a couple more shoulder pieces, and perhaps a singular new torso piece and head piece, is all that's needed to round out the Vlandian aesthetic.

Another easy way to add visual diversity would be to apply faction-coloured paint to existing helmet pieces, as one guy did in the Creative Unit Aesthetics Archive. And you could add a golden belt to existing tabards to make a "luxury tabard".
ccf68369e043a2b802e36459a7556082.jpg



Thanks for the input, which slot would you say is missing armor variety for low tier troops? Head, shoulders, torso, lower legs/feet, lower arms/hands?
Something cool like this would mean actual work instead of -here's the prison break that is worse than warband's- and, here's the keep battles that are the definition of going on inch. This company will cut at corners at all costs, they do not love this game, it's a labor of inconvenience not love.

Go check medieval dynasty and see the stark contrast. I have not touched BN in months ever since the "you can't control your men after enemy retreats." It took a month for these devs to even communicate if it was intended or not. That is the definition of a bad EA that claimed to accept player feedback from the community. The only accepted feedback is with small adjustments to poor decisions already made where it is so obvious the feature or change is horrendous.
 
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It does help when fighting empire vs empire while playing without floating banners, or fighting against an enemy with you cultures unit in its rank. Although the colours are not distinct enough in the dark. I hope that when the banners are included this would be less needed and the overall colour shade is restricted to 1 or 2 armor pieces.
I explained my point poorly

I meant between different units, the colours present are basically the same and gives off the impression of sameness. If different colours could exist within a single army however, you'd actually get better results in varying up the appearance of troops.
 
I explained my point poorly

I meant between different units, the colours present are basically the same and gives off the impression of sameness. If different colours could exist within a single army however, you'd actually get better results in varying up the appearance of troops.
I do agree with the fact that it would look better. My worry is with recognition of friend or foe in the middle of the battle. I sometime struggle to recognise an enemy cataphract between my own. A single piece of armor/shield in a fixed colour would help recognition.

In my own play through I combined native with my little warband and the armor shield pieces from CA-eagle rising to make my empire units to look distict by giving the standard units different helmets and the cataphracts different shields. Something like this would eliminate the need for the 1 colour shade.
 

Soldier93

Recruit
WB
I like where you're going with this but I don't think the Northern Empire -- the faction lead by traditionalist oligarchs who think that things should go back to the good old days of the republic -- would be too keen on adopting barbarian flourishes in their armor. They're in the northern part of the Empire but it's hardly frigid there. The Northern Empire is likeliest to be most traditionally Calradian (but this should probably look late Roman, not republican Roman -- something that looks like a dated but immediate predecessor of the current Byzantine flavor Calradic Empire and looks very ornate with stylized echoes of more classical stuff). Late Antiquity gets rarely used in games, whereas classical Roman and Byzantine both get used all the time. I think the Northern Empire, based on the lore, would fit a Late Antique Western Empire vibe pretty well.

Wee can see existing imerial regional variation in how the imperial crowns are set up, which are currently the only regional Empire equipment.

The Northern Empire battle crown is a late antique jeweled Roman ridge helmet -- from the late Empire, but covered in jewels and likely based on crowns worn by Roman emperors or high imperial officers. The Northern Empire civilian crown is a laurel wreath, which is the traditional Calradic crown-that-is-not-a-crown worn by Calradian emperors from Arenicos back to the beginning (see the Empire's original faction blog entry). Northern Empire troops are likely closest to traditional Imperial professional legions in style, though I think they should again have a Late Antique appearance so that they look like the immediate predecessor of the current Byzantine vibe that Arenicos brought in instead of something from centuries long ago.

The Western Empire battle crown is ALSO a late antique Roman ridge helmet, but it's more simplified and lacks the jewels. The Western Empire civilian crown on the other hand, is nearly identical to the Southern Empire's civilian crown with some minor differences in the jewels. In other words, the Western Empire takes elements of both imperial tradition (Northern) and dynastic innovation (southern) but uses them in a more military fashion. Since Garios's name is based on Arenicos that makes sense. I also expect that since Garios is next to the Vlandian frontier, this is a place where geographic adoption makes sense -- the Vlandian guard being the former bodyguards of the emperor (this is an innovation of Arenicos, but Garios would likely try to imitate his military glory and proclaim he's a better heir to Arenicos than Ira is). They probably adjusted their tactics and equipment to deal with the Vlandians.

Finally, the Southern Empire's battle crown is a crowned helmet based on a Byzantine model (technically based on St. Stephen's crown from Hungary, but that is a modified Byzantine imperial princess's crown) and their civilian crown is the bottom band of the same crown (which is the most Byzantine part of it). So while the entire Calradic Empire is "Byzantine," the Southern Empire is probably the core of the Empire of Arenicos and would use the most Byzantine-style troops that he brought into play.

tl;dr: we already see regional variation in the three empires based on the design of imperial battle and civilian crowns, and based on the lore, and Imperial equipment variation should follow the same pattern of Northern Empire == Calradian republican tradition with Late Western Imperial Roman appearance, Western Empire == military innovation and adaptation, Southern Empire == the most ornate and courtly Byzantine elements. There should be some military adaptation based on the foes each empire is facing, but primarily the differences in the three Empires should be based on the personality of THOSE parts of the 3-way civil war and not just on their barbarian opponents.
I absolutely agree. Each part of the empire should reflect the Eastern or Western styles and culture. This could be reflected on type of policies and Kingdom organization too.
 
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