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Where is kick bottem?
- 主题发起人 LegendaryFrog
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It's not that it's hard to understand. It's just that you're plain wrong.
If they wait with a hotfix, then it means that the time to release is not right. That it's not ready. That means, that "now" is not a possible time to release it. Hence, whenever they decide to release is effectively ASAP. As by their standard, releasing it earlier was not a possibility.
Reasons for this can be varied, but it's not logically inconsistent.
The critical word in here is "as possible". And they are basically the same thing with different scopes/sizes. They also have pretty much the same workflow. If the test fails, no patch or hotfix is pushed for example. You don't want a broken patch, I presume? The whole process is taking a lot of time from a lot of people in normal circumstances, so it's nothing like we are pushing a button and voila the game is updated!
Besides getting to know the terms in game development, I would also suggest learning about the practices as well. So we might actually find a common ground to discuss it more rational. Cheers.
最后编辑:
It's really not.... I am literally sitting in a software development office this very second and our latest hotfix comes out Monday (if we get time) ...
it is sad to see all the negativity here sometimes,
i know you are trying very hard to complete the game and i (and many others who are silently playing the game) appreciate it
i do have a long list of changes i would like, but i know you are trying to make a product that would satisfy most of your audience and my (and others who are vocal here) ideas might have to wait for custom servers to see fruition
thank you for taking the time to read and comment on these forums and i hope you don't get frustrated by the feedback
just know that people wouldn't comment on these forums if they didn't love your game and want to make it better
thank you for all your hard work and good luck with your programming
Thanks for your kind words. While i am not a programmer myself, I will forward the good wishes to the team as a whole.
I know that people taking their time to write their opinions, good or bad, is happening because they like the game and it shows they are caring about the game. But why people think that we don't care about the game is something I want to learn. I was a player from the community just like you before I joined and I can say that I am satisfied with the replies I found along the way regarding some of the curiosities I got.
I would love to find a chance to discuss with the community but I mostly felt like talking to a wall most of the time, no offence. Finding a common ground to talk is a rare thing. But that's another topic on its own.
I know that people taking their time to write their opinions, good or bad, is happening because they like the game and it shows they are caring about the game. But why people think that we don't care about the game is something I want to learn. I was a player from the community just like you before I joined and I can say that I am satisfied with the replies I found along the way regarding some of the curiosities I got.
I would love to find a chance to discuss with the community but I mostly felt like talking to a wall most of the time, no offence. Finding a common ground to talk is a rare thing. But that's another topic on its own.
Well to start off with Warband and it's community was always rather... toxic.
The MP has been in beta for 2 years now and 1,5 years of that is EA, people are just fed up about how the development is going.
For example why are servers still not stable? Why can't you still play proper siege without needing to rejoin?
Things like this are not even balance related so not subjective and massive problems, if you can't sustain a casual playerbase how do you expect to sustain a competitive one? Competitive gameplay has higher standards but if you don't even meet casual gameplay requirements but pretend everything is good and fine people get mad. And this has been a continous trend for years now which made a somewhat toxic community into pure toxicity.
But that is on a bigger scale, but it is also very apparent on a smaller scale. Let's take a look at the last patch.
You made it so that you can no longer switch weapons during an animation, you have to realise that people have been doing this for 11 years and this is very frustrating.
When you throw a pila your shield sheaths, again very frustrating.
You can earn money in warmup as vlandia peasant, again very frustrating.
Do you see a trend? It is just very frustrating to see the development of this game. It's always 2 steps forward and 2 steps back.
And once more these are not problems that are personal, they are just issues with the game. I haven't even touched the balancing subject for that matter.
Then 2 more things;
Who asked for meta perks? Since when does MB have perks to increase damage, how does this fit into the franchise? lol
Port at Omor is still a map with some major issues, stuff like this makes people not take you seriously as a development studio.
Well here you have a part of the problem, hopefully this gives you a bit of insight on the hate on TW.
the internet is an easy place to be overly cynical, i doubt if you talked to anyone here in person (who cares enough to spend their time to comment) you would find that they would be alot more agreeable and cordial;
although they might be frustrated that you are not making the exact game they want im sure they are grateful that you are making a game at all
just make a post like anyone else and check it regularly, ignore the trolls (its the internet after all), and comment to the ideas you find interesting
im sure there are some people who would love to talk to anyone who is affiliated with taleworlds,
the reason why i am here is so that taleworlds could read my ideas
最后编辑:
I don't care for the speed of the development as long as it is going forward. Currently every patch is 50% good and 50% bad + bugs.
Also clarity would be lovely, have a trello board with plans which is public. Explain your vision and what you want to achieve.
And make the patches smaller because everytime you are nearing a good balance you throw in a new patch, like the previous one, with a lot of new stuff which completely throws the game out of whack again. Then you balance it again, release a new patch..... It's just a circle really.
Also clarity would be lovely, have a trello board with plans which is public. Explain your vision and what you want to achieve.
And make the patches smaller because everytime you are nearing a good balance you throw in a new patch, like the previous one, with a lot of new stuff which completely throws the game out of whack again. Then you balance it again, release a new patch..... It's just a circle really.
I believe that a large part of the reason for this is ignorance. The vast majority of players do not know what game dev entails, what happens behind the closed doors and how the decisions on the games are made.
What they do see, especially if they are avid forum readers, is tonnes of great player suggestions that get seemingly "ignored". They do not realize that the suggestions might have been discussed internally, they often do not realize that there might have been good reasons for why said suggestions were not implemented, they often do not know about the tight scheduling for game development as well as the challenges devs face.
On the other hand, they often look to modders who work under completely different circumstances and conditions, see them introduce great content into the game with their mods and wonder "Why can modders do this but devs can't?!"
Then there comes communication from the community managers which... leaves a lot to be desired. Even when there is contact from devs themselves, such as in your case, this contact gets buried under other messages and most people never get to see it, leaving them under the impression that devs just do not care.
This is of course just a part of the whole picture, but I do believe this is a significant contributor.
I'd say overall this forum feels better then it did 6 months ago. Recent patches and the future roadmap have certainly helped.
I won't lie but I also think a few high-profile bans certainly didn't do the community any harm either....
I won't lie but I also think a few high-profile bans certainly didn't do the community any harm either....
This conversation between [TW] 5ten and some players in a Skirmish match might shed some light on the issue:
5ten: How's the new kick mechanic?
BuBu: Animation looks ******ed.
5ten: I made the animation. What's ******ed about it?
BuBu: Just give us Warband 2. Stop ****ing up the legacy. All we wanted is Warband on a better engine. Now we have forced quest and bugs.
Wow: I have a better suggestion. Bring back kicks from Warband. Warband kicks is just one example of how responsive and smooth was the Warband combat. You complicated chambers and they're not being used at all. Like AT ALL.
5ten: We want to try complicated things sometimes. Warband was simple. Sometimes simple is better. But play around with the kick and see if you like the depth in how it works now.
Wow: Come duel. I'll show you how complex the kicks are. I'll kick you 10 times out of 10. In Warband I wouldn't.
5ten: Game on.
If anyone's interested, this is how the developer (playing in purple) faired on the duel server:
As you can see, there are players who *care* about this series and wanted M&BII to continue the "legacy" of Warband. It had exceptional qualities that were well worth retaining for future M&B games. Yet TW seem to care more about designing whatever they want for the game (no matter how much the community tells them that it's flawed). Just look at the dreadful integration of crushthrough last year. Fast forward to today, and there are still uncalled-for decisions, including crushthrough rearing its ugly head again.
This conversation between [TW] 5ten and some players in a Skirmish match might shed some light on the issue:
5ten: How's the new kick mechanic?
BuBu: Animation looks ******ed.
5ten: I made the animation. What's ******ed about it?
BuBu: Just give us Warband 2. Stop ****ing up the legacy. All we wanted is Warband on a better engine. Now we have forced quest and bugs.
Wow: I have a better suggestion. Bring back kicks from Warband. Warband kicks is just one example of how responsive and smooth was the Warband combat. You complicated chambers and they're not being used at all. Like AT ALL.
5ten: We want to try complicated things sometimes. Warband was simple. Sometimes simple is better. But play around with the kick and see if you like the depth in how it works now.
Wow: Come duel. I'll show you how complex the kicks are. I'll kick you 10 times out of 10. In Warband I wouldn't.
5ten: Game on.
If anyone's interested, this is how the developer (playing in purple) faired on the duel server:
As you can see, there are players who *care* about this series and wanted M&BII to continue the "legacy" of Warband. It had exceptional qualities that were well worth retaining for future M&B games. Yet TW seem to care more about designing whatever they want for the game (no matter how much the community tells them that it's flawed). Just look at the dreadful integration of crushthrough last year. Fast forward to today, and there are still uncalled-for decisions, including crushthrough rearing its ugly head again.
Wow, so is that video showing that the devs don't know how to play??? Does the devs not play the game??? I'm surprised that was a dev, looked like a noob player who played for the first time. Lol
Inappropriate language, flaming
bannerlord is now very balance now in my view i have been playing this since beta this is the best version so far and the kick that u guys mentioned it is weak now in high level duel if u missed a kick the recover is really slow so that ur enemy can immediately kick u back
Btw this is bannerlord not "warband' just adapt it or go the ****ing back to warband
Ps:i am no1 duelist in warband ea(Asian)2017-2018
no1 ea cav and inf bannerlord 2020-now
Btw this is bannerlord not "warband' just adapt it or go the ****ing back to warband
Ps:i am no1 duelist in warband ea(Asian)2017-2018
no1 ea cav and inf bannerlord 2020-now
Lol, gotta love that you need to compensate with your amazing achievements in EA lmfao.
Anyhow, this is the best version so far? Come on, how low are you standards?
Every patch is 1 step forward and 1 backwards and then you don't even have the brand new bugs which every patch contains.
The kick improved, sure! But they broke weapon switching and you now automatically sheath your shield when throwing a spear. Don't forget about the perks which are completely not M&B like and I'm even touching the perks themselves concerning their quality.
Since this game released there has been no major upgrades, only sidegrades. The damn servers are still not stable and continuous.
For casual games you have 20 seconds downtime for every minute you play, that's god awful gamedesign.
This conversation between [TW] 5ten and some players in a Skirmish match might shed some light on the issue:
5ten: How's the new kick mechanic?
BuBu: Animation looks ******ed.
5ten: I made the animation. What's ******ed about it?
BuBu: Just give us Warband 2. Stop ****ing up the legacy. All we wanted is Warband on a better engine. Now we have forced quest and bugs.
Wow: I have a better suggestion. Bring back kicks from Warband. Warband kicks is just one example of how responsive and smooth was the Warband combat. You complicated chambers and they're not being used at all. Like AT ALL.
5ten: We want to try complicated things sometimes. Warband was simple. Sometimes simple is better. But play around with the kick and see if you like the depth in how it works now.
Wow: Come duel. I'll show you how complex the kicks are. I'll kick you 10 times out of 10. In Warband I wouldn't.
5ten: Game on.
If anyone's interested, this is how the developer (playing in purple) faired on the duel server:
As you can see, there are players who *care* about this series and wanted M&BII to continue the "legacy" of Warband. It had exceptional qualities that were well worth retaining for future M&B games. Yet TW seem to care more about designing whatever they want for the game (no matter how much the community tells them that it's flawed). Just look at the dreadful integration of crushthrough last year. Fast forward to today, and there are still uncalled-for decisions, including crushthrough rearing its ugly head again.
I feel you perfectly.
The new front kick is orthopaedic and overly exaggerated rocking-chair effect... it kills me the movement of hips, steps back and repositioning of the end of the animation cycle automatically switching to the opposite stance.
I don't understand how even knowing the problems that have the animations concerning the swing arcs (OGL talked about it, me too and some other) something basic and priority, they keep reinventing the wheel once again having something that previously worked organically and realistically (Warband).
最后编辑:
The game still massively resembles Warband. It just has some very questionable differences towards handling extremely similar functions in gameplay.
Also, the game could run like a slug and someone could potentially say: "Just adapt, it's something new, I'm the best at it, gneh."
The "it's not Warband" sentiment is a baseless cop-out. Taking the best things from Bannerlord's EA and the best things from Warband is perfectly reasonable in trying to make M&BII the best it can be. We don't need this averse "that's how Warband did it, we don't want that" approach. It's simply a matter of rollback in some instances, which can be very effective in design.
You can talk up your achievements (in Asia) all you want. If that's your criteria for validity of opinion on the game, you should look up what Arni has said. Some of the most fanatic players of Bannerlord, and people who have played it the most (e.g. members of DM), have taken issue with the TW developers more than I ever have. I've merely pointed things out on the messageboards. It's not like I've ever said "**** you" to TW, whereas that's exactly what was said by the winning team of a Grand Final earlier this year.
I can live with it, but the end of the kick animation (and the animation of getting up from a knocked-over state) does indeed look rushed and un-organic sometimes, as if it's just a slapdash band-aid patch rather than a satisfying overhaul. I don't know whether it's because changing stuff is really difficult (especially if they're extensively using IK effectors) or they're just uneager to change what they've already made. We've already seen them re-integrate stuff that was booted out (due to feedback) before, so it could be that they only change stuff by tiny amounts because it makes the eventual plan of putting it back how it was originally easier.
In any case, the developer also mentioned that very little of their animation uses motion-capture - the tools of which they don't have access to right now.
