Where do we go from here?

[Saxnot]

Dislike Khergits.

Dislike changing rules-set at all, because with having two similar competitions in a row we can compare them/each other better. And thats what we are here for. Compare each other. What else competition could there be. And having a competition lasting for at least two cycles sounds comparable to me.

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

Lets host LANs in Gavin's garden.

gg ig

 

[Maynd]

Entry fee is the way to kill such a small competitive community.

 

[arsenic_vengeur]

No money, no problems.

 

[Lord_David]

Entry fee is the way to kill such a small competitive community.

Agreed

 

[Morii]

Entry fee is the way to kill such a small competitive community.

I don't think coming up with the money is a big problem, most big and small clans have/had a clanserver(s) they paid for at some point, even some of the ones that didn't exist more than 3 weeks. A problem I do see with entry fee's however is basically the same as what is happening with the nditions duel tournament now; A lot of people are convinced they don't really have a chance to actually win the tournament anyways and thats one of the reason's almost no one puts any money in the prize pot. Likewise I think a lot of clans will be convinced they might get pretty far in a tournament, but will never become first since they feel they can't win against a clan like IG, RNGD, Trinity, etc. And therefore they'll be hesitant to put money in.

So IF a tournament with entry fee/prize money would be made, it would have to be set up in such a way that its still attractive to the majority of 'not-so-skilled' to 'average' clans, or you'll end up with a 4-clan tournament and a split community.

EDIT: Something that you (Flusticles) could consider is very slowly introducing entryfee/moneyprize tournaments between other 'normal' tournaments, you will create a sort of 'pro league/tournaments' apart from a 'normal league/tournaments'. Everyone can compete in the normal ones and when they feel they are ready they could join a pro tournament. I doubt this would do any serious 'splitting up of the community' since everyone would still be competing in the normal tournaments/league and see the pro tournaments/league as an extra. After one or two succesful entryfee tournaments -they will likely start out very small, 4-6 clans is my estimation- more clans may start joining them or people might form new teams just to compete in them. If that doesn't happen, no one will by crying because everyone has been and still will be playing normal tournaments/leagues.

 

[BaronDeMoroz]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

 

[Newbiejunky]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

 

[Hs_Salim]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

absolute this!!! 

 

[ramboTotalWar]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

I agree nubi's post

 

[nedsat]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

What he said.

 

[Mia]

+1 for Fight and Destroy & Khergits

 

[Duken96]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

This!

 

[Goku_The_Bastard]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

This!

+1

 

[TheBard]

Money! I do like. How about this: Each Division has a entry fee of which the bonuses/price money is paid of like Div. A 20E per team and first three get something out of it the total pot of Div A, Div B. 15E per team and so on. This way we would have not only encourage staying and playing for first place within each Div but second and third becomes more attractive therefor more challenging.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Unfortunately, BaronDe Moroz is right, everyone doesn't play fair, specially when there is money. May be we should leave this money story to leagues like ESL which has anti cheats programms and such, and keep playing Warband for the pleasure and for the fun. Perhaps the most valuable thing to win for us is recognition

This!

+1

+2

 

[Arch3r]

Fight & Destroy seems like a cool option. Also, no money. I wouldn't join a tournament you'd have to pay for.

 

[Lord Rich]

I would like to have a league and I have a suggestion on the format which should hopefully help address some of the issues.

So first off it would be a single division ladder, like a big division C. There would be a fair few differences from division C however.

The first is that the 'level' property for a team would be derived from the amount of points a team has, not the number of wins. The second is that the amount of points a team starts with would be derived from the previous league. So as an example lets say the number of points required to be level 2 was 10 and the number of points to be level 3 was 20. A team that was level 3 (or div A) in the previous league would start the new league with exactly 20 points irrelevant of the number of points scored in the previous league. This ensures that there is still some division between the various teams however we would still allow for teams to move up and down the ladder.

Winning would give you points and losing would lose you points, however the amount of points won and lost would depend on what level your opponents team is compared to your own. I haven't balanced any of the numbers properly yet but here is an example:

Event	Winner Points	Loser Points
Both teams same level, one team wins	+3	-3
Both teams same level, draw	+0	+0
Lower team vs higher team, lower wins	+5	-5
Lower team vs higher team, higher wins	+2	-2
Lower team vs higher team, draw	+1	-1

Level 3 teams would not be able to play level 1 teams however. But this allows teams to choose their opponents based on a risk/reward system. If higher level teams pick lower level ones they are theoretically stronger than, they will get less points as a reward. Lower teams will want to pick on higher opponents if they want to advance up the table. Level 3 teams would be encouraged to fight each other since that would give the greatest reward for them.

The order for picking opponents would be based entirely on the scores of the previous weeks matches, so as to avoid a situation where teams at the top have absolutely no control over who they are playing (as is the case with the current ENL). Possibly some other factors need to come into it as well.

I would hope this system would solve some of the problems associated with the previous league. Mobility would be higher and a team newly entering the league would be able to quickly pull themselves up the table if they could consistently beat higher opponents. Likewise if a team is already in a higher position it could get pulled down relatively fast. Overall it should be a much more fluid system which would respond better to the quickly changing clan situation. The numbers I have stuck here are just suggestions as well by the way, I am sure if this system was implemented it would need a fair amount of considered balancing as the difference between the number of points between each level and the points won/lost in a match would effect the speed at which a team could change level.

 

[sotamursu123]

i support azan's suggestion.

 

[Duken96]

Maybe we can have 1 league and then some tournaments at the same time, like football. For the league format i like Azan's idea.

 

[captain lust]

I think there are a lot of teams who enjoy the game and like playing matches. When they play those matches, they take them seriously and they play as well as they can at that stage.

I think there are less teams who play a practice match every night, who grind out endless hours on public servers trying to be as good as they can be, in the hope that they could beat a team they would normally be expected to lose against. I'm talking in extremes though.

So you want teams to not enjoy the game but train and grind to win? And in your opinion they need money to do that? So it's like a ****ty job.

No it's like people playing the game they already play with a little more conviction and focus. Maybe drawing from time spent in other games or mods, because there's a little more potential reward from dedicating that time to Warband instead.

All right.

I'll give the job their hackers to create a module Warband:
1. invisible walls.
2. The shield that will cover me from all sides.
3. Automatic shot in the head and the maximum damage to the enemy.
4. Autoblock.
5. increasing the skills of our team characters and reducing the enemy.

And I will collect your money every cycle. It is more interesting than going to work

Half of those things aren't possible (you can't change the shield forcefields, damage your items do or your skills - not when we're using official servers). I'd also like to thank you for your PM but most/all of the points you raised there (and I'm happy for you to post it here if you like) aren't/wouldn't be relevant to my proposals or are easily solved by handling certain things differently.

The cheating thing is still an issue but Warband is less vulnerable to it than other games because it's not an insta-hit fps. Most competitive is played with shields and aimbotting can't account for player movement.

The sums I'm thinking of are very low anyway. I think 3-10 euros per team for entry is probably the range I'd be looking at.



@AZAN: I honestly can't see a weekly fixture system working when teams at the top can be punished (i.e. gain less points than other teams at their level) by getting picked (and winning against) lower teams. That sort of balancing can only work when teams are set to play at their own pace. Also without specifics about the picking order, it's impossible to make a valid judgement about your system. Since that's effectively the most important part of the ladder.

The problems with my ladder (this cycle) basically all came from teams making stupid picks - i.e. trying to beat stronger teams than others that were available, that they couldn't have beaten and wouldn't have offered any extra reward (compared to other picks) had they even managed to do so. That happened in a number of cases and showed a lot of teams had a fundamentally poor understanding of the system. However, I fully accept that is partly a problem of the system itself. If it isn't simple enough for people to understand, there's a strong case to say it isn't simple enough.

 

[Morii]

I like AZAN('s idea).. or at least the direction his idea is going to. Higher rewards for lower teams fighting higher teams will ensure that clans/teams will keep having a chance to go to the top for a long part of the season.

It does indeed still need some refining/elaboration on some points. For the picking order not to get all fckd up I'd think about a priority system in which picks of the same lvl get priority over cross-lvl picks or something like that, the higher lvls probably need to be an uneven number to make sure at the very least one cross-lvl match is played every round. Maybe teams should also have the option to 'sit out' a round without getting penalized for a certain number of times and excepting the last 4 rounds or so.