When is TWs actually going to add a major feature?

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I disagree (well, obviously given my last few posts haha). If the intent is to make things simpler and more accessible why all the complexity?

I get the complex combat due to the multiplayer facet of the game, but why make the sandbox/campaign things so complex? Why the simulated economy or making sure that almost every action the player can take the AI can do so as well under their own non-deterministic attitudes?

From a player perspective, Bannerlord is a very simple game. Why make all this software development work for yourself unless you are actually interested in the technology itself?
Does the AI hire companions? Because if they don't, and it is an exception; then why could there not be other exceptions? "AI can do anything the player can, except companions" sounds a bit artbirary to me. Also, how about quests? They are consequential for the campaign but AI do not complete quests, do they? So "quests and companions," then... Weird.

It sounds like you criticise TW for "over-engineering," which may have cost us the dream game: needs more time, harder to maintain, etc; often comes at significant opportunity cost. Occam's Razor normally applies here to prune complexity. For the most part I think you are correct, I am just not sure about how you relate failures to intentions. Like, over-engineering could be the result of starting off too ambitious, etc. Still a mistake but perhaps not selfish like treating one's main product as one's toy project.
 
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If you did not mean offense then I am certainly not going to keep chewing on it. Let's chalk it up to inference reading and miscommunication on our parts.
I am a professional software developer and I have modded Bannerlord, though not much. I had grand plans for it but gave up after becoming disillusioned with Bannerlord.
Fair enough, I'm advocating for mature and constructive debates with like-minded people. Not silly fights over the internet.

Let's tackle the obvious attack first:
I am not providing an idea, simply my opinion. Every opinion is brilliant to its owner. And honestly, why the attack?

Saying the combat is not complex because modded Warband was more sophisticated is the wrong counter-argument here. My argument about Bannerlord combat was meant in more of a generic way. If the goal of TW is to dumb things down to casual players as you proposed, I think these types of players would not have cared one bit if combat was much more straight-forward. And to my point, why would TW go through the trouble of designing the combat and then training the AI on it if the demographic is indeed what you propose? Honest question here.

And on this vain, shooters can be quite complex. Even though I suck at those types of games, I can understand it takes certain skill to master. A broad diversity of competency at any skill is a good demonstration of its complexity.


There is a reason why those games are fairly popular among players, they sort of fall into the " easy to play, hard to master " mantra. Fornite being also one of these. That doesn't mean those games are deeply complex on their core though, without being a professionnal who makes online shooters, from what I've seen it's complex in term of netcode and some shenanigans here and there.
Heck, even fast-fps are fairly simple to use, you jump, you aim you shoot and boom.
They are quite hard to master because it requires a lot of skills and mainly muscle memory to be good online, but that's another subject isn't it ?
 
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Does the AI hire companions? Because if they don't, and it is an exception; then why could there not be other exceptions? "AI can do anything the player can, except companions" sounds a bit artbirary to me. Also, how about quests? They are consequential for the campaign but AI do not complete quests, do they? So "quests and companions," then... Weird.

It sounds like you criticise TW for "over-engineering," which may have cost us the dream game: needs more time, harder to maintain, etc; often comes at significant opportunity cost. Occam's Razor normally applies here to prune complexity. For the most part you are correct, I am just not sure that how you relate failures to intentions. Like, over-engineering could be the result of starting off too ambitious, etc. Still a mistake but perhaps not selfish like treating one's main product as one's toy project.
Lords do complete quests, though this behaviour often gets broken between patches, same thing about clearing hideouts. And by quests, I mean what TW code calls Issues, the repeatable stuff that affects the economy in mysterious (for the player) ways.

Good catch about the companions, but I see companions as a catch-up mechanic for the player, since all Lords start with an established clan whereas the player would need to play for multiple generations to populate their clan without companions.
 
Let's tackle the obvious attack first:
I am not providing an idea, simply my opinion. Every opinion is brilliant to its owner. And honestly, why the attack?
It's not an attack, it's an argument.
Saying the combat is not complex because modded Warband was more sophisticated is the wrong counter-argument here. My argument about Bannerlord combat was meant in more of a generic way. If the goal of TW is to dumb things down to casual players as you proposed, I think these types of players would not have cared one bit if combat was much more straight-forward. And to my point, why would TW go through the trouble of designing the combat and then training the AI on it if the demographic is indeed what you propose? Honest question here.
"Training the AI"? No one trained the AI, where do you get this stuff?
I think you are confused by the occasional randomness in design choices and try to identify patterns from cherry-picked examples, while ignoring the overall lack of features in the game. You should read what TW devs say about design choices and not speculate about how Armagan dreamed up a tech experiment because he's autistic. This last one seems to be your main assertion, even if it is ridiculous and not supported by evidence..
Calling it "just an opinion" won't make it impervious to criticism.
 
Lords do complete quests, though this behaviour often gets broken between patches, same thing about clearing hideouts. And by quests, I mean what TW code calls Issues, the repeatable stuff that affects the economy in mysterious (for the player) ways.

Good catch about the companions, but I see companions as a catch-up mechanic for the player, since all Lords start with an established clan whereas the player would need to play for multiple generations to populate their clan without companions.
I did not know lords did issues. If we consider companions as necessary then fair enough. But how about lords coming back with some troops whereas we lose everything after a defeat? How about AI lords not founding new kingdoms, or just leaving their kingdom and becoming mercenaries? That would actually solve my biggest issue with the game... There are probably many other 'necessary' things that break the rule.
 
It's not an attack, it's an argument.

"Training the AI"? No one trained the AI, where do you get this stuff?
I think you are confused by the occasional randomness in design choices and try to identify patterns from cherry-picked examples, while ignoring the overall lack of features in the game. You should read what TW devs say about design choices and not speculate about how Armagan dreamed up a tech experiment because he's autistic. This last one seems to be your main assertion, even if it is ridiculous and not supported by evidence..
Calling it "just an opinion" won't make it impervious to criticism.
Wrong choice of words there, I mean code the combat behaviour of the AI. If you mod the game to use the full aggressiveness of the AI you can see that it is not all random.

I follow every person from TW that posts here since the beginning of EA. I have literally read almost every single dev post for over a year using the Forums "News Feed" feature.

Speculate is all that we do, since no one here knows what goes on at TW.

I never mentioned anything about Armagan's neural disorder. That is personal stuff and you show how much of a low individual you are by going for that.

I welcome civil discourse, what you are doing is just being a **** because you disagree with me. Those are not the same thing.

Have the floor man, I'm done here.
 
So it has been over a year in EA since TW began their tinkering with this game, which has mainly consisted of fixes for bugs introduced and various minor adjustments. What workshops are more profitable this go round lol? Seriously, there are dozens of mods with better content than this team has managed to put out in over a year. Want to stash items in your castle? Here's another menu page; some of the laziest ham fisted crap I have ever seen in gaming.
Stfu and just enjoy the game as it is you ungrateful pleb! Taleworlds have included plenty of major features in the latest patches, which you would know if you were a true supporter of TW and could actually read the changelogs, here is 2 clear examples;
  • Added map notifications for gained traits. 1.5.9
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
Clearly both these additions promote even more engaging gameplay and situations for players because of the extensive implications of traits and the absence of **** all to do in settlements, castles and towns.

Furthermore sieges will be FIXED in patch 1.5.11.419 just before release, which will finally make the game a coherent GOTY worthy product and justify Taleworld not spending any time actually improving sieges, insted just trying to fix the broken placeholder **** they put into the game from day one.

also MP will soon be ready for MLG esports and custom servers are cancelled
 
Stfu and just enjoy the game as it is you ungrateful pleb! Taleworlds have included plenty of major features in the latest patches, which you would know if you were a true supporter of TW and could actually read the changelogs, here is 2 clear examples;
  • Added map notifications for gained traits. 1.5.9
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
Clearly both these additions promote even more engaging gameplay and situations for players because of the extensive implications of traits and the absence of **** all to do in settlements, castles and towns.

Furthermore sieges will be FIXED in patch 1.5.11.419 just before release, which will finally make the game a coherent GOTY worthy product and justify Taleworld not spending any time actually improving sieges, insted just trying to fix the broken placeholder **** they put into the game from day one.

also MP will soon be ready for MLG esports and custom servers are cancelled
You shut up. I will post whatever opinion I want.

Oh...
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
I will alert the media over this ground breaking feature. Jesus Christ..... lol.
 
I follow every person from TW that posts here since the beginning of EA. I have literally read almost every single dev post for over a year using the Forums "News Feed" feature.

Speculate is all that we do, since no one here knows what goes on at TW.
We do know bits and pieces and there's a pattern there - avoid complexity, take control from the player, focus on the casual/console players.
If you want, I can provide the several TW dev quotes all revealing this kind of thinking.
I never mentioned anything about Armagan's neural disorder. That is personal stuff and you show how much of a low individual you are by going for that.
It was a joke, he's fine.
I welcome civil discourse, what you are doing is just being a **** because you disagree with me. Those are not the same thing.
Yeah, I'm a bit of a ****, sorry. It's a bit frustrating when the person you talk to sticks to an unsound argument no matter what.
 
Stfu and just enjoy the game as it is you ungrateful pleb! Taleworlds have included plenty of major features in the latest patches, which you would know if you were a true supporter of TW and could actually read the changelogs, here is 2 clear examples;
  • Added map notifications for gained traits. 1.5.9
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
Clearly both these additions promote even more engaging gameplay and situations for players because of the extensive implications of traits and the absence of **** all to do in settlements, castles and towns.

Furthermore sieges will be FIXED in patch 1.5.11.419 just before release, which will finally make the game a coherent GOTY worthy product and justify Taleworld not spending any time actually improving sieges, insted just trying to fix the broken placeholder **** they put into the game from day one.

also MP will soon be ready for MLG esports and custom servers are cancelled
IIRC someone from TW (mexx?) already gave a list of things to expect and there is pretty much nothing there. Some polishing, a couple slide bars at best to count as "kingdom management" and some other stuff along those lines. I see no reason to expect anything else. It seems like we will rely on mods for further content.
 
You shut up. I will post whatever opinion I want.

Oh...
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
I will alert the media over this ground breaking feature. Jesus Christ..... lol.
apparently sounds are features now :ROFLMAO:

is this how low we've set the bar?

This has been my experience, I am telling myself to come on and have fun and often I don't, not even with 30 mods.
I stopped playing 1.5.7 and I'm happy I did.

I felt like I was living in a washing machine, going around in F*n circles all day. Not a game, a chore!
 
We do know bits and pieces and there's a pattern there - avoid complexity, take control from the player, focus on the casual/console players.

This is repeated over and over lately, still I didn't see if it was aimed for current gen console or last gen consoles.
I can't imagine the scope of the game changing if it's aimed for the former.
 
We do know bits and pieces and there's a pattern there - avoid complexity, take control from the player, focus on the casual/console players.
If you want, I can provide the several TW dev quotes all revealing this kind of thinking.
This is exactly correct, they have done close to nothing accept prep this game for console it appears. I would never rip this company before, now I am going to let them have it everywhere I go.
 
Then again, how an allegedly console port has to do with the shallowness in that game ?
In a few interesting ways!
The obvious one is that console players are casuals and kids that freak out if you show them a complex piece of UI. At least that's what Taleworlds thinks. Remove complex choices for the player and change the UI to be gamepad, but not mouse+keyboard friendly (formation commands...)!
This has also all kinds of consequences on game design - the game is geared towards more action and less thinking in many ways.

The more important way is by limiting performance. If you want the game prepped for consoles, its performance should be capped. Sometimes this is done through removing more complex or frequent calculations that make the game smarter. The obvious example is troop intelligence. If you want every single troop on the battlefield to have situational awareness and react to threats, it needs to check what's going on in its vicinity several times per second. Multiply this by the number of troops and you can see a performance problem for low end PCs and consoles. Solution: lower the frequency of checks, even if troops are now more oblivious and making late decisions (sounds familiar?). Dumbed down.
A similar logic also applies to party AI and other AI checks on the world map that need to be made constantly.
 
Oh FFS dude. Post like this are necessary to remind people why they should never buy another TWs game.

I honestly believe TW deceived us. From past videos and dev diaries to all the other BS. We were sold a false bill of goods.


So much for working with the community during EA,. Or ****, so much for even developing the game. Its essentially the same as it was at launch, with more quest and a bit of ascetic polish.

Exactly this. Emphasis mine.
 
The obvious one is that console players are casuals and kids that freak out if you show them a complex piece of UI. At least that's what Taleworlds thinks.
That explains everything, found the elitist here. Can't be more satirical than this, even if I had to.
Do you have any source on what TW thinks for that matter ?
There are quite a few games ported to console who were originally made for a PC audience, ranging from freaking Warband to PlanetCoaster or Cities Skylines.
Those games surely don't attract much players on this console market, so it raises questions sales-wise, I'm not sure all of this has to do with recent changes in this game, except the UI maybe. As an example my dad would love to play this game on his console, he hasn't a beefy PC.
Yes water is wet, so does some players playing on consoles who likes having deep games. Pretty much not your average kid playing Fortnite.
Then again it's like arguing websites are designed mobile-friendly and responsive, screw those smartphones right ? But I disgress.

The more important way is by limiting performance. If you want the game prepped for consoles, its performance should be capped. Sometimes this is done through removing more complex or frequent calculations that make the game smarter. The obvious example is troop intelligence. If you want every single troop on the battlefield to have situational awareness and react to threats, it needs to check what's going on in its vicinity several times per second. Multiply this by the number of troops and you can see a performance problem for low end PCs and consoles. Solution: lower the frequency of checks, even if troops are now more oblivious and making late decisions (sounds familiar?). Dumbed down.
A similar logic also applies to party AI and other AI checks on the world map that need to be made constantly.

I get the dumbed down part. That's why I asked you if we had any informations about which generation of consoles they want to port.
It's easy enough to conclude than current-gen consoles ( PS5 / Series ) are by a large margin more powerful than the average PC according to Steam Surveys, let alone the informations you can get on reading this forum ( people complaining about lags/bugs on a low-end PC or even better, freaking laptops ).
Let's keep back this elitist stance for a second do you, I'm a PC player, so do you, but it's not honest to argue about performance if and only if we are talking about current gen consoles.

Without any further informations, all we can get is to rant about changes in the UI, which is fair.

EDIT : if a port is done right, they have to tone down those algorithms for consoles only, so the PC version remains intact, this is exactly why games like Cities Skylines happen to run on a freaking Nintendo Switch ...
 
Am I missing something or did DennyWiseau's apparent sarcasm completely go over a bunch of people's heads?
Just look at this TW dev thinking about the battle size slider and it will become clear why they do stupid things.
Wow. That's just incredible. That is so profound, it reads like a piece of satire. According to TW, their customers and community are so dumb, that they need to simplify everything as much as humanly possible and hold your hand throughout the entire experience. They really think there is such a thing as "too much customization=unhappy players". This alone tells you the entire problem with TW's development of Bannerlord. Dumb down the game as much as possible to streamline it for a wider audience. This is exactly what caused the Total War games to decline.

Can't have more diplomacy and kingdom management, it's too complex for the players!
Can't have more complex battle controls and AI, it's just too complex for the players!
Can't have more nuanced and detailed character interactions and dynamics, waayy too difficult for the beloved players to understand!

Just let us take care of all the complexities, trust us, our vision is the only vision, no exceptions.
 
" Players didn't know what to expect with the number they're selecting"

That is a hold your hand feature for console kids, nothing more.

Stfu and just enjoy the game as it is you ungrateful pleb! Taleworlds have included plenty of major features in the latest patches, which you would know if you were a true supporter of TW and could actually read the changelogs, here is 2 clear examples;
  • Added map notifications for gained traits. 1.5.9
  • Added new sounds that trigger when clicking various buttons on the settlement’s panel on the campaign map. 1.5.10
Clearly both these additions promote even more engaging gameplay and situations for players because of the extensive implications of traits and the absence of **** all to do in settlements, castles and towns.

Furthermore sieges will be FIXED in patch 1.5.11.419 just before release, which will finally make the game a coherent GOTY worthy product and justify Taleworld not spending any time actually improving sieges, insted just trying to fix the broken placeholder **** they put into the game from day one.

also MP will soon be ready for MLG esports and custom servers are cancelled
My apologies if I missed this sarcasm, it's late here lol.
 
Back to the stash menu page:

When you give a player another menu page instead of a chest to store items, it gives the player no connection to his castle or town thrown room. Add up enough little things like this and you have a very bland game. Besides fighting battles there is zero to do. Viking Conquest is much better in this regard? Why is that?

Yesterday I was programming a very simple GUI for a homework and realized that I could create an very simple online game like Travian without any graphics and images in a day or something. Just make everything consist of numbers, even the world map, and we are ready to go. This stash thing reminded me that. Lol
 
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