When is Bannerlord playable?

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Everyone was asking for a release date because the game was on major game events for 5 YEARS. If you can't get a game finished in 8 years, you don't start teasing it 5 years prior to its' barely serviceable EA launch, that's it. Also I don't mind the lacking EA launch, The continued lack of communication and seemingly bad management at development is what bothers me. We have all seen where "They're taking their time guys! The results will be awesome!" got us. Don't dare to put the blame on the fanbase, they were running out of money, that's why they went with the EA.
I agree that they were way too early announcing the game and their frequently missed release dates were too optimistic, but the vitriol and entitlement that came from some fans during the wait made me actually cringe. I also agree with the lack of communication to some degree. I think we get more devs interacting and answering questions now than during the beta, but they could definitely do with an additional community manager that has the sole duty of scouring the forums and other social media for questions.

In regards to your last points. No one blamed the fanbase, I simply pointed out that some people were overreacting and acting like impatient children, which I still think. Lastly, I don't know why they went with early access but you saying they ran out of money is pure speculation so I don't care.
 
If by "playable" you mean can you launch the game, explore the map, recruit troops, get in some battles and generally **** around, then yes the game is playable. But if you ask me if its fun, then no, I don't think it is right now, and I have no idea when it will be.
 
I loved that engine, it has a lot of potential. But yeah I stopped playing after 100 hours or so. I do not want to ruin the experience that will be the full release. I liked what I saw, but the game is just not ready. At this point, I better let the guys who really want to participate in the development do what they do best ... test and report. I will continue to follow the development and will probably play again in a year or so.

I am all in with companies that release game early for the fans to give their opinion. However, I think that charging full price was wrong. As many other company did, they should have started to sell it cheap ...than increase the price as the game approach the official release date. Charging the full AAA price right at the early release day left many with a bad taste in their mouth. This is the only thing I would have liked to be different. But good work guys ...that game will be great.
 
First off you seem to be getting weirdly worked up over this. You can just have a normal conversation, no need to misrepresent me by saying I think the developers are stupid. Engage with what I actually said and chill out lmao

In regards to the features included in Bannerlord being unfinished and you thinking I'm content with their current implementation I'll quote myself:

That's me asking you what you mean by the features not existing while also indicating I'm aware that the features are unfinished and unbalanced. It doesn't mean that I'm content with their current implementation. It's a literal question.
Okay, forgive my earlier attitude, it's just that I cringe whenever it seems people defend parts of ANY game the devs themselves know are in a bad spot, and it did seem at first this was what your objective was(from my pov).

Still, I understand that you can view it from a technicality, but when looking at what you consider BL's staples:
  • Factions are stale and uninteresting since the AI STILL field massive recruit armies, and minor factions mid-late game run around with a fraction of their special troops.
  • Sieges are buggy or outright broken in many many cases, a personal example being where a defender was trapped after falling in the murder hole, and since we the attackers didn't bring a ram the battle never finished until I retreated causing mass casualties. Also no tactics(currently)
  • Field battles are too short, seemingly because of overaggressive AI not bothering to use viable tactics, and some village scenes cause armies to spawn less than 100m away from each other.
  • Castles are just as bland and boring as in WB, and upgrades are still very incomplete to the point where they break the economy for many fiefs.
  • Combat is subjective, but it is there and functional both for the AI and player.
Thing is, I don't see why you would ever feel the need to point out these features technically being there when they are so very poorly executed, mostly due to last minute cuts with very little testing. People were expecting these features finished as was advertised, and whille I personally don't care since I follow much of what is said by the devs on the forums, you can surely understand how many casual players were a bit disappointed by the result, especially considering how many believed it to be the final product.
 
Okay, forgive my earlier attitude, it's just that I cringe whenever it seems people defend parts of ANY game the devs themselves know are in a bad spot, and it did seem at first this was what your objective was(from my pov).

Still, I understand that you can view it from a technicality, but when looking at what you consider BL's staples:
  • Factions are stale and uninteresting since the AI STILL field massive recruit armies, and minor factions mid-late game run around with a fraction of their special troops.
  • Sieges are buggy or outright broken in many many cases, a personal example being where a defender was trapped after falling in the murder hole, and since we the attackers didn't bring a ram the battle never finished until I retreated causing mass casualties. Also no tactics(currently)
  • Field battles are too short, seemingly because of overaggressive AI not bothering to use viable tactics, and some village scenes cause armies to spawn less than 100m away from each other.
  • Castles are just as bland and boring as in WB, and upgrades are still very incomplete to the point where they break the economy for many fiefs.
  • Combat is subjective, but it is there and functional both for the AI and player.
Thing is, I don't see why you would ever feel the need to point out these features technically being there when they are so very poorly executed, mostly due to last minute cuts with very little testing. People were expecting these features finished as was advertised, and whille I personally don't care since I follow much of what is said by the devs on the forums, you can surely understand how many casual players were a bit disappointed by the result, especially considering how many believed it to be the final product.
It´s fine, misunderstandings are common when not talking face to face. Not a big deal.
  • I would say that my criticism of factions in their current state is similar to yours. I like the difference the Khuzait offers in combat by fielding a bigger number of horse archers than the other factions, but besides that, most factions seem very similar in everything apart from looks. Policies are something I hope to see changed down the line by having them be specific to the different cultures and further cement the factions supposed strengths (and weaknesses). That said, I find the premise behind each faction interesting with Sturgia being based on the Kievan Rus etc.
  • My experience with sieges has been mainly positive though I´ve also had similar experiences to you. When they (mostly) work like intended they´re great fun, when they don´t they´re incredibly frustrating. Thankfully, the problems with sieges are mostly that they don´t like intended which can, and I´m confident will be, patched, unlike the Warband sieges that worked like intended but still weren´t particularly fun.
  • Field battles are definitely too short. I think this is in part due to initial formations breaking up after the first charge causing both enemies and allies to send scattered pockets of troops until they´re both depleted. Another problem with them may lie with health pools being way too low with people dropping like flies the moment armies clash. Tactics or the lack thereof is also a problem like you said. Still, I´m personally finding them more enjoyable than the battles in Warband.
  • Castles are pretty much useless as the AI will often choose to ignore them and go for towns or other targets rendering them useless to their intended purpose of being in strategic locations. Towns have mostly been upgraded close to fully by the time I get one so yeah.
  • The combat I´m actually enjoying vastly more than the one in Warband. I know there´s been a lot of "controversy" over a block delay, stances, and overall changes to fainting, etc. I haven´t really noticed these problems in singleplayer, but I could imagine they would be a problem for competitive players.
The reason I point out the features technically being there is two-fold.

First off I don´t like the "doomer" approach (not saying you´re one) of pretending like we´ve been force-fed a pile of literal dogsh*t and like some people haven´t been hounding the devs for a build in whatever state, playable or not, for years on end. Many threads like this will either devolve into a delusional praise fest for the game or a complete sh*tshow of toxicity and doomsaying. I obviously air on the side of the people who like the game and I´m confident it will be great in a year or two, but I have no issue pointing out current, former, and (potential) future problems with it.

The second is cultural I guess. In Norway, when talking to people we don´t know personally we tend to be formal and straight-forward. It may seem different or even hostile(?) when translated to English, but in Norwegian, this would be a very standard way to discuss with strangers.
 
It´s fine, misunderstandings are common when not talking face to face. Not a big deal.
  • I would say that my criticism of factions in their current state is similar to yours. I like the difference the Khuzait offers in combat by fielding a bigger number of horse archers than the other factions, but besides that, most factions seem very similar in everything apart from looks. Policies are something I hope to see changed down the line by having them be specific to the different cultures and further cement the factions supposed strengths (and weaknesses). That said, I find the premise behind each faction interesting with Sturgia being based on the Kievan Rus etc.
  • My experience with sieges has been mainly positive though I´ve also had similar experiences to you. When they (mostly) work like intended they´re great fun, when they don´t they´re incredibly frustrating. Thankfully, the problems with sieges are mostly that they don´t like intended which can, and I´m confident will be, patched, unlike the Warband sieges that worked like intended but still weren´t particularly fun.
  • Field battles are definitely too short. I think this is in part due to initial formations breaking up after the first charge causing both enemies and allies to send scattered pockets of troops until they´re both depleted. Another problem with them may lie with health pools being way too low with people dropping like flies the moment armies clash. Tactics or the lack thereof is also a problem like you said. Still, I´m personally finding them more enjoyable than the battles in Warband.
  • Castles are pretty much useless as the AI will often choose to ignore them and go for towns or other targets rendering them useless to their intended purpose of being in strategic locations. Towns have mostly been upgraded close to fully by the time I get one so yeah.
  • The combat I´m actually enjoying vastly more than the one in Warband. I know there´s been a lot of "controversy" over a block delay, stances, and overall changes to fainting, etc. I haven´t really noticed these problems in singleplayer, but I could imagine they would be a problem for competitive players.
The reason I point out the features technically being there is two-fold.

First off I don´t like the "doomer" approach (not saying you´re one) of pretending like we´ve been force-fed a pile of literal dogsh*t and like some people haven´t been hounding the devs for a build in whatever state, playable or not, for years on end. Many threads like this will either devolve into a delusional praise fest for the game or a complete sh*tshow of toxicity and doomsaying. I obviously air on the side of the people who like the game and I´m confident it will be great in a year or two, but I have no issue pointing out current, former, and (potential) future problems with it.

The second is cultural I guess. In Norway, when talking to people we don´t know personally we tend to be formal and straight-forward. It may seem different or even hostile(?) when translated to English, but in Norwegian, this would be a very standard way to discuss with strangers.
Haha, I love that take on things! I guess I just got off on the wrong foot and like I said in my prior post, first thought you were one of those praisers that see BL perfect in its the current state, wanting to 'protect TW'.

There is so much to praise, but I think criticism is more effective considering it's EA form. I think I'm mostly excited for the implementation of different AI behaviors depending on their culture. Heavy sturgian infantry bearing down upon their foes in a(proper) shield wall; Battanian archers splitting their archer groups to either side of the main infantry body for maximum damage; Khuzait cav working together with the HA to perform perfect outflanks and hit and run while filling bodies with arrows; Aserai skirmishers constantly outrunning their foes only to pelt them with deadly javelins; Vlandian cavalry taking vanguard and charging head-on into their foes; Imperial disciplined tactics, letting loose jav volleys before charging into enemy lines. I just really cannot wait to see what they do with the tactical AI lol.

In terms of content, I pretty much agree with you on everything, although the block delay is something from MP and has been a pretty hot topic ever since the beta. I just hope TW continues to 'fix' and add content instead of just conforming to fanboys that try and silence criticism. That being said, I think the doomer approach is a bit more effective at communicating errors than positive praise, but without a doubt the attitude displayed is not excusable. It's just I guess your classic Scandinavian breed is very rare haha, and after properly reading over your comments I see I was too rash so again I apologize. I myself struggle not to vent on these forums sometimes whenever I view stupidity from either the game or people lol.
 
Haha, I love that take on things! I guess I just got off on the wrong foot and like I said in my prior post, first thought you were one of those praisers that see BL perfect in its the current state, wanting to 'protect TW'.

There is so much to praise, but I think criticism is more effective considering it's EA form. I think I'm mostly excited for the implementation of different AI behaviors depending on their culture. Heavy sturgian infantry bearing down upon their foes in a(proper) shield wall; Battanian archers splitting their archer groups to either side of the main infantry body for maximum damage; Khuzait cav working together with the HA to perform perfect outflanks and hit and run while filling bodies with arrows; Aserai skirmishers constantly outrunning their foes only to pelt them with deadly javelins; Vlandian cavalry taking vanguard and charging head-on into their foes; Imperial disciplined tactics, letting loose jav volleys before charging into enemy lines. I just really cannot wait to see what they do with the tactical AI lol.

In terms of content, I pretty much agree with you on everything, although the block delay is something from MP and has been a pretty hot topic ever since the beta. I just hope TW continues to 'fix' and add content instead of just conforming to fanboys that try and silence criticism. That being said, I think the doomer approach is a bit more effective at communicating errors than positive praise, but without a doubt the attitude displayed is not excusable. It's just I guess your classic Scandinavian breed is very rare haha, and after properly reading over your comments I see I was too rash so again I apologize. I myself struggle not to vent on these forums sometimes whenever I view stupidity from either the game or people lol.
Your ideas on the different AI behavior are exactly what I hope for. Hopefully, the AI will be able to further split their troops in more than the current troop categories of infantry, ranged, cavalry and horse archers. They should utilize the already existing additional troop categories of skirmishers, heavy infantry, and so on. The tactical AI definitely has a lot of potential like you say. I also agree that Taleworlds main priority right now should be to fix and add the already promised features before anything else.

Don´t worry about our initial "disagreement". Written communication will always be messy when discussing because each reader will read it differently. Let´s hope that in a year or two, the game will have fulfilled its potential. Cheers!
 
"I pLaYEd morE tHAn X hOUrs So ITs pLaYabLE."

No, it's not - it's testable and this is what we're doing - we are helping a small studio test their game and generate data for balancing and further development. This early access bull**** is only a marketing scheme. THIS GAME IS STILL BEING BUILT and we are all Beta-testers. The game wasn't "rELeasE In EArlY AccESs". You can play sieges and battles but other aspects of the campaign are not finished.

Is the game testable? Yes.
Is the game playable? No, because it is not finished.
This, absolutely this.
 
When TaleWorlds manages to fullfill these plans https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ing-plans-for-singleplayer-and-engine.422296/ the game will certainly be playable from my point of view! Good to know, that they are prioritizing based on the actual community feedback.
I'm playing and enjoying right now, by sticking to particular niche styles of play which avoid the most seriously underdeveloped parts of the game.

It was good to get a published list of current priorities and most of them make sense. Different players have different opinions on what they think is most important, but I'd say the most broadly complained about issue which that priority list doesn't do much about is diplomacy. A way to declare war formally (rather than triggering one by committing an act of war) is about the only diplomatic feature on the list. Needing to wait a couple of months to get diplomacy features any more advanced than that will hurt.
 
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The game is already fully playable. The core gameplay loop of M&B is equip > fight > loot > equip > fight ...
Everything else is just made to give you an escalating amount of fights to win with some stages to increase size+difficulty. In its core M&B it is not really about winning the game, but infinitely fight.

What we are talking about here is what features to add to make the fights more meaningful.

Diplomacy and relations (querst for recruitment as well as lords) need expansion for sure. Balancing as well, though that will never satisfy everyone.

But the game is playable and already pretty much on level with M&B. A lot of those diplomacy/relation features in M&B Warband are broken and basic as ****, too, we just modded the heck out of it so barely remember the vanilla version. All M&B always had was exciting combat, the rest was fluff bolted on later to have more and bigger fights. There was no actual depths in feasts, marriage etc., obviously I expect a sequel to improve on that.
 
The game is already fully playable. The core gameplay loop of M&B is equip > fight > loot > equip > fight ...
Everything else is just made to give you an escalating amount of fights to win with some stages to increase size+difficulty. In its core M&B it is not really about winning the game, but infinitely fight.

What we are talking about here is what features to add to make the fights more meaningful.

Diplomacy and relations (querst for recruitment as well as lords) need expansion for sure. Balancing as well, though that will never satisfy everyone.

But the game is playable and already pretty much on level with M&B. A lot of those diplomacy/relation features in M&B Warband are broken and basic as ****, too, we just modded the heck out of it so barely remember the vanilla version. All M&B always had was exciting combat, the rest was fluff bolted on later to have more and bigger fights. There was no actual depths in feasts, marriage etc., obviously I expect a sequel to improve on that.

Almost being on level with a game that came out 10 years ago is not what I would call a great success.
 
I wonder if it was in their plans to open up more to the community as development goes on, or if it was a reaction to us, complaining about the lack of communication :unsure:

Well players are leaving the game. Numbers are going down everyday. More people are complaining on this forum and other places.

Even if they mute, remove complains and other negativ stuff. Player numbers don't lie. They need it to go up. Sold a lot of copies sure, but if the numbers of active players going down it does not look good for future investment in the company.

They didn't plan to open up more, they had to react fast and post something to try calm down people.
 
M&B it is not really about winning the game, but infinitely fight.

Is that even the case at the current stage of the game? I heared of many, already conquered the whole map and beeing bored now.

Balancing as well, though that will never satisfy everyone.

Does anything will? :razz:

A lot of those diplomacy/relation features in M&B Warband are broken and basic as ****, too, we just modded the heck out of it so barely remember the vanilla version.

There was just nothing really to compare it to. Every feature was a +, and we just accepted that some of them are broken, because that just was Mount&Blade. Our standards have changed with Warband as reference now, with modding Warband and with the ability to take part in the development.
 
Can you further explain your "niche styles"?
Freelancing, without intent to form my own kingdom.

Playing as a vassal. Works quite well now, provided you manage your ambitions and expectations regarding the limited diplomacy you can engage in with other clans. It is even possible to mostly defend your villages from raids now that the AI lords aren't so psychotically bloodthirsty and constantly refreshed with instantly spawning troops.

Relationship grinding research. eg. did you know, in towns with 3 gang leaders, you can cycle through beating them up and claiming their territory, and your net relationship with all of them increases. You can end up with all of them loving you after you repeatedly beat them up. The wait time to "claim territory" also gave me the chance to fiddle with Blacksmithing, since normally I don't stand still long enough to regen any stamina.

Other endeavours of discovery. I like investigating how things work and testing their limits.
 
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