When do you think they will really properly start 'scene-ing' the game?

[Lord Irontoe]

If you read the modder's guide, in there it says it takes them ~3 weeks to do an entire settlement which includes 3 scenes. I'm assuming those 3 are the siege battle, the village "walk-around" and the keep. Not sure about the dungeon or how that plays in. But it's possible the 3 scenes could be the seasonal for all the maps too. So I'm thinking an individual village map is probably 1/3 of that time.

For towns and castles, that could mean the 3 wall levels, since they're wooden palisades at level 1 and high stone walls at level 3. So then the siege scenes would have to be for each level. All in all, it seems like an very labor-intensive process. I wonder if they would've been better off taking the approach Bethesda used for Skyrim with its dungeons made up of modular pieces that snap together like a lego kit. It might make for more repetition, but it would probably be a lot faster to knock out a ton of different scenes

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

For towns and castles, that could mean the 3 wall levels, since they're wooden palisades at level 1 and high stone walls at level 3. So then the siege scenes would have to be for each level. All in all, it seems like an very labor-intensive process. I wonder if they would've been better off taking the approach Bethesda used for Skyrim with its dungeons made up of modular pieces that snap together like a lego kit. It might make for more repetition, but it would probably be a lot faster to knock out a ton of different scenes

If i did the math correctly the process of making scenes for every town village and castle which all take 2 weeks the process would take around 2 to 3 years

 

[Julio-Claudian]

If i did the mth correctly the process of making scenes for every town village and castle which all take 2 weeks the process would take around 2 to 3 years

So it'll never happen...

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

So it'll never happen...

Depends....

 

[xdj1nn]

Personally, I am pleased that the settlements are proposed by scenes configured in detail in a meticulous way; just as they have done and despite the fact that it takes more work. The pity is that all that work behind each scene is " skipped " due to the lack of possibilities with the pc-npc-dynamic-scene interaction.

On the other hand I don't like that the concept of scene creation has been transferred to the open field battle scenes (tile-biome). I'm not advocating a return to the genesis of steep hills where gravity was challenged as we had in Warband, but rather in a semi-procedural system that is totally feasible in these times. This kind of terrain genesys system would favour (or would have favoured imo) a much more random playable experience without the current "déjà vu battles".

yeah, procedural can do wonders, I've failed to even acknowledge the battle scenes on my comment...

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I think in a way this game fights with itself. Are you the guy on the map view menuing your way to success, or are you a person in the world and the world is more than text descriptions? I think the thing is just the way gameplay systems are designed right now, you fly around to towns and treat them like skill hits as you would in another game.

For example the, "I want a bigger/ better armry", you are ping ponging around to the town and looking for recruits. Because you only get a few troops here or there per town, you are required to ride to multiple towns and interact for half a second. It's not an interesting interaction in itself, and loading into the map feels like a chore because you only have 5 seconds of non decision making interaction before leaving it. If you had to spend 5 minutes in town, and had meaningful gameplay there, it would not feel like a chore.

This is a massive fundamental problem with the game that they really can't leave unaddressed, and I think it's what contributes to why I find it so grindy. Unless they can make it viable for the player to stay in just one area and not have to run around all the time, all the scenes in the world aren't going to make it half decent to play.

 

[froggyluv]

Theres no way on earth it should take a dedicated professional 2 weeks per scene unless they are just plugging 2 hours/day away at it. Even if that were true -then they should have had a small team working on it throughout this process not like some little kid who forgot to do a Cover/Table of Context/Bibliography and Fact Checking until the last day his Report Project is due

 

[NLCRich]

For towns and castles, that could mean the 3 wall levels, since they're wooden palisades at level 1 and high stone walls at level 3. So then the siege scenes would have to be for each level. All in all, it seems like an very labor-intensive process. I wonder if they would've been better off taking the approach Bethesda used for Skyrim with its dungeons made up of modular pieces that snap together like a lego kit. It might make for more repetition, but it would probably be a lot faster to knock out a ton of different scenes

The levels are handled within the scene via a feature in the scene editor that allows you to set visibilities based on levels. Same things with the seasons, they are different visibilities within the same scene. The additional scenes are most likely related to combat or building doors that lead to another scene (keep for ex.).

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

The levels are handled within the scene via a feature in the scene editor that allows you to set visibilities based on levels. Same things with the seasons, they are different visibilities within the same scene. The additional scenes are most likely related to combat or building doors that lead to another scene (keep for ex.).

If i remember correctly the scene editor can also auto-generate how winter would look in the scene created

 

[NLCRich]

If i remember correctly the scene editor can also auto-generate how winter would look in the scene created

No you have to create the wintery effect for that season manually.

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

No you have to create the wintery effect for that season manually.

Ah yeah sorry still haven't played around with it yet

 

[Dreed89]

I think that disconnect between scene and map has been an issue in warband and basically this format of the game. It's hard to find that balance. On on hand I'd love to have towns and scenes as detailed as an RPG game like say kingodom come deliverance. On the other hand in WB/BL it can be frustrating to walk through a bland town to locate a village elder or someone when you need to have a 1 second exchange with them.

I think in a way this game fights with itself. Are you the guy on the map view menuing your way to success, or are you a person in the world and the world is more than text descriptions? I think the thing is just the way gameplay systems are designed right now, you fly around to towns and treat them like skill hits as you would in another game.

For example the, "I want a bigger/ better armry", you are ping ponging around to the town and looking for recruits. Because you only get a few troops here or there per town, you are required to ride to multiple towns and interact for half a second. It's not an interesting interaction in itself, and loading into the map feels like a chore because you only have 5 seconds of non decision making interaction before leaving it. If you had to spend 5 minutes in town, and had meaningful gameplay there, it would not feel like a chore.

So many systems though lend to, stop by a town check/refill on 'stuff' and go look in the next town. They are clicking waystations and don't provide much other type of gameplay and hence, not really a drive to have elaborate scenes, despite having an engine that is capable of showing them.

Very well put.

The only solution that comes to my mind is adding extra features to the towns/castles/villages that do not have click shortcuts in campaign so that players will experience and appreciate these scenes.

Of course, as is now, there should be menu shortcuts for recruting armies but there are many other possible ways to add flavors to scenes that will facilitate player interaction and make people visit them such as (1) adding extra informative dialogue (rumors, war comments, available quests, faction objectives etc) for citizens, guards, inkeepers, (2) implementing more gang interactions, (3) adding profit related dialogue to workshop workers, (4) implementing barbers and to-be-added other NPCs, and so on. I am sure more can come to mind as these were just what came to my mind in a minute.

I hope the beautiful scenes this game have will not go obsolete.

 

[froggyluv]

As far as encouraging Town exploration:

1. Hidden items
2. Unique characters with special offers/conflicts that are MOVING thru town not just standing about
3. Potential for dynamic combat
4. Build relations with town by simply being there more
5. Let emergent AI actions take place -dog attacks a kid, people argue and fight, a bard or poet performs with people gathering about
6. Like Bannerpage mod, dont allow interaction with Village chief until at least once travelling to town square to introduce yourself

 

[Mushbeast]

As far as encouraging Town exploration:

1. Hidden items
2. Unique characters with special offers/conflicts that are MOVING thru town not just standing about
3. Potential for dynamic combat
4. Build relations with town by simply being there more
5. Let emergent AI actions take place -dog attacks a kid, people argue and fight, a bard or poet performs with people gathering about
6. Like Bannerpage mod, dont allow interaction with Village chief until at least once travelling to town square to introduce yourself

That'd be sweet, little things like what GTA or RDR did to keep the world around you interesting would work wonders. Putting in some more unique units that you could only find and recruit by wandering towns could also do a lot to add variety and add to the roleplaying as well.

 

[stevehoos]

In 8 months they should have made a hundred scenes.

 

[bodhi]

For me, taverns are at the heart of the game. They're important for roleplaying, a place where you recruit and meet new people, they give an impression of the town in which they sit.... and its culture. Of course towns in general need work, no one would disagree with that.

On a side note... personally I really do hate the 'quick talk' facility... I would like an option to turn it off so that I have a reason to enter towns and walk around and talk to people. But then I am a big fan of the RPG elements of the game.

Just what I was going to say. I mean, not exactly word-for-word...that would just be scary but, essentially, that's what I would have said. Something like it, at least. Taverns 4 RP!!

 

[stevehoos]

Just what I was going to say. I mean, not exactly word-for-word...that would just be scary but, essentially, that's what I would have said. Something like it, at least. Taverns 4 RP!!

I can understand this, now there's no reason to go to taverns at all. You can't even buy beer for the town to increase relations.

 

[JDZ5]

Hold on. People go into village scenes?

 

[stevehoos]

Hold on. People go into village scenes?

I have been into 1 to look around in my 300 + hours, pointless.

 

[Reapy]

As far as encouraging Town exploration:

1. Hidden items
2. Unique characters with special offers/conflicts that are MOVING thru town not just standing about
3. Potential for dynamic combat
4. Build relations with town by simply being there more
5. Let emergent AI actions take place -dog attacks a kid, people argue and fight, a bard or poet performs with people gathering about
6. Like Bannerpage mod, dont allow interaction with Village chief until at least once travelling to town square to introduce yourself

I feel like the gameplay arc to really push this is the crime one. It makes a lot of sense you'd have to leave your army and get down in the gutters to deal with al the gang stuff, and is consistent with how bandit lairs are dealt with. Having that unique set of menu options to manage another resource layer in the town would require you to walk in town and possibly get ambushed or set up ambushes to take over other sections. It's ambitious, but I think it would take that level of making almost another game within the game to really pull you into the scenes. I don't see that happening anytime soon but would hope that's somewhere in the years ahead.

One thing I was curious about with the mod tools was whether they could add in more scripted behaviors and more complex activities in scene objects? It would be interesting if you could start working on more scripted behaviors in a scene to start building out more unique gameplay in them.

As for length of scening, if you take a look at the contest's check list for what makes a good scene, you'll see the work that needs to go into it. Also don't forget about the whole artistic/creative side of it that takes place before the scene editor is even opened. You need to generate terrain and have a town laydown that is interesting and not overly repetitive from one town to the next. You then have to build multiple levels and multiple seasons of it. You also have to manage the performance of it with not too many objects or distant high detailed objects. You need to get the AI mesh manageable and marker off areas for sieges/attacks to play well also. All of that takes a lot of time and iteration and given the amount it takes to 'finish' a scene 2 weeks seems pretty tight for just one person to get done in time.