When did surcoats start to be used

[Sahran]

Doing research involving the 12th century for 1148 AD, one thing I'm not quite clear on is when you began to get knights wearing surcoats. I've seen an Osprey depiction of a Breton Sergeant in 1160 with a two-tone surcoat, but my usual impression is of surcoats being a 13th century sort of thing. When did they begin to be used?

 

[CountArtha]

None of the knights depicted on the Bayeux Tapestry are wearing surcoats over their hauberks, so probably after 1066.  It might have caught on during the early Crusades or the Norman conquests in Italy as a way to keep mail from heating up in the sun.

 

[socks]

The various Osprey books I have consistently don't have depictions of a surcoat prior to the early 13th century but I have no better sources on the matter.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

Wiki estimates somewhere around 12th.

Probably sometime during the crusades, if you ask me.

 

[CountArtha]

Well, it's pretty much known that they wore them by the Third Crusade, isn't it?

 

[socks]

Probably sometime during the crusades, if you ask me.

That's quite a broad estimate :p

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

Early crusades.

 

[guilemaster]

To be safe, I wouldn't say they were common until the third crusade. We know for sure they were often used by then, but I can't think of any reliable source that tells of common use before then. I'm sure some used them though.

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

As far as we know, Europeans adopted the practice from the Muslims they came in contact with, though it seems that it was adopted by the Crusader States of the 12th century and not by Norman fiefdoms in Sicily or southern Italy in the preceding century.

My money is on the 12th Century Crusader States, but since that encompasses a century of time it is hard to pinpoint it.

 

[Oskatat]

right. maybe not surcoats but coat of arms were common before that with the men-at-arms etc..... Depicted at paintings, carpets etc were nobles. Uniforms of one kind or another, to make sure you didnt kill an ally, are as old as war and fighting. The question you are answering, but not asking is when it got depicted in the art that has survived to this day, which is also a discussion on when people started to portray people who were not of a noble birth..... basically, the discussion has diverged from the actual question