What's the plan for multiplayer?

What do you think?


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Klausolus

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
After taking a break of over two years I've just now started playing Bannerlord again and to my surprise, not too much has changed in that time, and not everything that changed has been for the better. I think the current state of the multiplayer is quite troubling considering that the game is releasing next month.

Last saturday during peak hours there were around 330 players in EU, 240 of them were playing cRPG, and only around 50 of those playing in native were doing so in official Taleworlds servers. The NA community doesn't seem to be doing any different, with even more of them choosing cRPG over native.
Qp86llh.jpg
I haven't been abe to find any skirmish or captain battle games through matchmaking, somehow the estimated wait time is always 01:25 minutes for skirmish even if there are no players queueing up, I want to point out that during the beta not only you got a wait time estimation that made sense but you also could see the number of players in the same queue as you (region, game mode). The only way to play these game modes now seems to be in custom servers.

The servers also seem to be a big problem at the moment, they're crashing constatly, I've been able to finish siege matches less times than I've had them crash, and it's not like they're crashing at max capacity.

I don't know when the troop customization system was introduced but since I've seen no one talking about it recently I'm going to assume it was a long time ago, and it kinda sucks. I think it is too expensive with prices ranging from 300g all the way up to 2500g (for a fancy cape) depending on the item tier. I think that in the average match that I play from start to finish I'm getting around 16g, less when the server crashes and ends the match abruptly. I'm not sure if this loot reward is tied to performance, game length or a mix of both, I don't even think that winning matters at all. But it takes way too much time to unlock even the cheapest items. We also get no loot at all if playing in custom servers. Leveling up also doesn't grant any loot and it's only purpose seems to be to show how much time you've spent playing in the official servers. With skirmish and captain out of the equation, to gain loot you have to play siege, TDM or duel. Siege has been the only thing I've found somewhat enjoyable in native, and the fun is ruined with the constant server crashes. TDM is just mindless slaughter for those who want some quick action I guess. These modes would also be more interesting if they had friendly fire enabled, which I think most if not all official servers should have.

And I feel like at times this customization system goes pretty much against what Taleworlds envisioned when they introduced and defended the class system we have, one of the supposedly strong points of this troop class system was that we should be able to very quickly what we are up against by just having a look at the appearance of an enemy, but with this customization system you can have a menavlion infantry (which has a base armor rating of 7) that is outfitted with chainmail over leather and the same helmet the imperial legionary uses by default, giving it the look of a 20+ armor unit like the palatine guard or the vlandian sharpshooter while actually having the exact same armor rating as the ****ing vlandian peasant.
hVn7VBw.jpg

You can also customize your banner sigil! You get 6 for free and all the others are apparently worth 100g, most are also really ugly and uninspired, as far as I can tell they're the same ones you choose when picking a banner for your clan in singleplayer.
0gqtHup.jpg

The troop perks seem to be all over the place, with many feeling very cheap and lazy:
  • Many are just stat boosts.
  • Some are pretty much the same perk but with a twist (e.g., the difference between the bullseye, marksman and hunter/poacher perks for the ranged classes is that they all give +4 damage to your ranged weapon and a bonus to headshots, max accuracy time, and damage to mounts, respectively).
  • Some perks literally just give you a random item (vlandian peasant gets a random farming tool and sturgian raider a random horse) which I think are the pinnacle of lazy design.
  • An issue that was pretty apparent during the beta still remains, some perks can't really compete with others within the same set.
  • Some perk explanations are a bit misleading or have actual mistakes in them: the rapid throws perk for the imperial recruit claims it grants additional javelins (increasing the ammo stack from 3 to 6), but what it doesn't tell you is that it replaces the imperial javelins with regular javelins, that are shorter and deal less damage, it also spells missile as "missle" in the tooltip. Another example: the aserai tribal warrior has a long sword perk that claims to replace the flyssa with the kaskara, which is longer and deals more damage, problem is that the other two perks in that set are a mace and an axe that also remplace this supposedly default sword, so the tribal warrior doesn't even have access to the flyssa in the first place.
  • Many classes felt more unique and interesting in the past: imperial legionaries had access to the pilum, menavlion infantry had plumbatas, vlandian sergeants and voulgiers had franciskas, sturgian varyags and berserkers had throwing axes, battanian oathsworns had pikes... It seems that when tackling some issues Taleworlds has chosen the lazy route of removing stuff rather than making an effort to balance it.
As much as I heavily criticized how the perks were in the beta, I can't help but think that they were actually better than what we currently have.

I don't want to talk too much about combat because I'm still quite rusty, but so far it doesn't really feel any better than what I remember: the slower weapons don't feel very good when compared with the faster ones, spears seem pretty bad outside of the use against cavalry and supporting with poke when outnumbering an enemy. Throwing axes are very inaccurate. Kicks don't allow for a free quick follow up attack with most weapons. Chambers are a total gamble with high risk and very low reward. The chained attacks you can perform after a swing still look super weird, and I still can't tell how the stances are supposed to work.

All in all, it's pretty clear that native multiplayer is doing pretty bad at the moment and it will not thrive in this state even if the full release brings in some new or returning players

So what's the plan? Is Taleworlds gonna do nothing and let the multiplayer ship sink? Or do they have an ace up their sleeve that they want to surprise us with next month?
 
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Piconi

Fashionista
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't really play the Multiplayer because of everything it is turned into, but i'm really glad to see you back @Klausolus , your wall of text here reminds me on some pretty times of hope for MP, not so long ago.
Welcome back !
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
TaleWorlds should make an effort to fix multiplayer. But they won't. Hence; Mods are the only future for Bannerlord multiplayer.
 

-Horris-

Sergeant at Arms
Like mentioned before, a dev at Gamescom mentioned that they are 'pretty happy with the state of multiplayer'.
Leaving that aside for a moment, I think the best thing is to get servers stable. If that is all in order, making sure modding is as easy and accesible as it can be should be the focus imo. Getting rid of as much hard-coded stuff as they can.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
@Klausolus Good to have you back!

While it is true that it is undeniable to attribute some progress to Taleworlds, basically and as everyone knows a defining phrase would be one step forward two steps back™. Because of that stubborn closed-mindedness in certain aspects of design we still have the same problems we had during the closed alpha-beta, the first months post EA and now... how much more could have been done? how much more could have been done to squeeze that wonderful testing platform that was the master server of Mister out of time with that overflowing and fluid synergy dev-fan seasoned? It hurts my soul to think about it...

As for the balance problems... what can I say that hasn't been said in the tons of feedback from the community... and to this day there are still the same problems with the combat system (swing arcs... horse weapon hitting inaccuracies...etc) - It's a pity that NIN3 took the reins so late... now (with all due respect to the new dev in charge) there is nothing more to harvest in this wasteland.

As for the class system... what to say... they didn't even try to look for hybrid/other solutions approaching the warband system... they just stick to their guns. And as you rightly say...

And I feel like at times this customization system goes pretty much against what Taleworlds envisioned when they introduced and defended the class system we have, one of the supposedly strong points of this troop class system was that we should be able to very quickly what we are up against by just having a look at the appearance of an enemy [...]

...this is where I also put my foot down... the implementation of their customization system goes against what was intended to be the goodness of that system before... it's something which is beyond any sensible comprehension.

The passive perks were the final nail in the coffin... hated and warned about since before its gestation I dare say... but them, went to the end.

If the combat system is going to stay as it is and everything else too, the only thing left for Taleworlds to do is to fix the crashing servers issue once and for all and provide a stable and quality platform; the community will do the rest (again) because there is nothing more to do here with what the native has to offer... they didn't want to do it for more than three years (pre launch alpha beta period + post EA) I don't think that's going to change overnight.

A decimated and fragmented MP community is the result of this long and tiresome journey.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Having a broken basegame will always limit the potential for mods as well - both in terms of features and in terms of playerbase.
TaleWorlds need to put a lot of effort into MP if they want it to succeed. lets see if they do lol
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant at Arms
If the need to get a hand out of the flame at least after three months of waiting can be called a fix (I mean the rollback of the emergency patch that destroyed the skirmish and captain modes due to the terrible rating system), then yes, I think that "Taleworlds should make an effort to fix the multiplayer".
 

Klausolus

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
I don't really play the Multiplayer because of everything it is turned into, but i'm really glad to see you back @Klausolus , your wall of text here reminds me on some pretty times of hope for MP, not so long ago.
Welcome back !
@Klausolus Good to have you back!
Thank you, I'm glad to see some familiar faces from the beta, too many have given up on the game by now.

While it is true that it is undeniable to attribute some progress to Taleworlds, basically and as everyone knows a defining phrase would be one step forward two steps back™. Because of that stubborn closed-mindedness in certain aspects of design we still have the same problems we had during the closed alpha-beta, the first months post EA and now... how much more could have been done? how much more could have been done to squeeze that wonderful testing platform that was the master server of Mister out of time with that overflowing and fluid synergy dev-fan seasoned? It hurts my soul to think about it...

As for the balance problems... what can I say that hasn't been said in the tons of feedback from the community... and to this day there are still the same problems with the combat system (swing arcs... horse weapon hitting inaccuracies...etc) - It's a pity that NIN3 took the reins so late... now (with all due respect to the new dev in charge) there is nothing more to harvest in this wasteland.

As for the class system... what to say... they didn't even try to look for hybrid/other solutions approaching the warband system... they just stick to their guns. And as you rightly say...



...this is where I also put my foot down... the implementation of their customization system goes against what was intended to be the goodness of that system before... it's something which is beyond any sensible comprehension.

The passive perks were the final nail in the coffin... hated and warned about since before its gestation I dare say... but them, went to the end.

If the combat system is going to stay as it is and everything else too, the only thing left for Taleworlds to do is to fix the crashing servers issue once and for all and provide a stable and quality platform; the community will do the rest (again) because there is nothing more to do here with what the native has to offer... they didn't want to do it for more than three years (pre launch alpha beta period + post EA) I don't think that's going to change overnight.

A decimated and fragmented MP community is the result of this long and tiresome journey.
I really believe that all of these problems could have been fixed or even avoided completely if they had actually listened to us at some point, they've definitely had more than enough time to fix everything that was wrong with multiplayer, they just refused to make an actual effort, either that or they are severely inefficient. I just see poor decision after poor decision with a half-arsed fix in between. Sad to see that NIN3 is no longer around, he was one of the few who interacted with the community and seemed to actually try to change some things.

Like mentioned before, a dev at Gamescom mentioned that they are 'pretty happy with the state of multiplayer'.
I've seen the video and even if they claim to be happy about the current state of multiplayer, I just don't believe it. It has to be a PR move because it'd be a really bad look to openly admit that the multiplayer is failing when the release date is so close. But there's absolutely no way they aren't aware of what's going on: matchmaking doesn't work, server stability is a nightmare, the player count for multiplayer is worryingly low, and most of those players are playing cRPG, a mod.
 

-Horris-

Sergeant at Arms
I've seen the video and even if they claim to be happy about the current state of multiplayer, I just don't believe it. It has to be a PR move because it'd be a really bad look to openly admit that the multiplayer is failing when the release date is so close. But there's absolutely no way they aren't aware of what's going on: matchmaking doesn't work, server stability is a nightmare, the player count for multiplayer is worryingly low, and most of those players are playing cRPG, a mod.
They are very much aware, and have been for years. They just do not love the multiplayer side of the game and that is sad. Having said that, it's not like the SP development has been a walk in the park either.
I think we need to accept the fact that native multiplayer is never going to be a decent feature for M&B. It's half-assed and they know it.
We're past the point of really still expecting anything from the devs here, it's just about stability and acces to as many things as modders can get. Apart from that, screw them really.
They have never cared much for multiplayer, not even in Warband really. Why expect them to do so now?
 

Klausolus

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
They are very much aware, and have been for years. They just do not love the multiplayer side of the game and that is sad. Having said that, it's not like the SP development has been a walk in the park either.
I think we need to accept the fact that native multiplayer is never going to be a decent feature for M&B. It's half-assed and they know it.
We're past the point of really still expecting anything from the devs here, it's just about stability and acces to as many things as modders can get. Apart from that, screw them really.
They have never cared much for multiplayer, not even in Warband really. Why expect them to do so now?
You're right. I guess I'm really just disappointed by how little progress was made in the last couple years. I should have known better, from what we saw during the beta it was clear that Taleworlds just didn't care enough about the multiplayer side of the game, that's the sad truth.
 

-Horris-

Sergeant at Arms
You're right. I guess I'm really just disappointed by how little progress was made in the last couple years. I should have known better, from what we saw during the beta it was clear that Taleworlds just didn't care enough about the multiplayer side of the game, that's the sad truth.
At least we can share the pain.
 

Goyyyio

Veteran
The plan for multiplayer:
Huhhh
Hmmm
Hehhhhh
10/10 BEST CS GO EXPERIENCE BUT MEDIEVAL!!! E SPORT CERTIFIED, WORLD TOURNAMENT BANNERLORD
 
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