What pissed you off today? v. VI

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Well, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Podolski or Klose, who he alluded to, took pictures with Polish politicians. But they didn't (afaik), which is perhaps quite telling in itself :razz:
 
kurczak said:
The multiple nationalities may work when everything's peachy, but like all things that only work when everything is peachy, they are actually useless.

That's just unecessarily harsh. The entirety of American societies were colonized by foreign people, there's a bunch of say, polish pride stuff in Brazil's south. I think that's an argument against holding two identities dear, and it doesn't really hold water.

kurczak said:
the German government is understandably anxious about Turkish officials campaigning in Germany among the dual citizens.

Why, exactly? It threatens them in absolutely no way.
 
I'm not a fan of Erdogan at all either and he was dumb to get that photo taken, but the reactions from the Germans were way out of line, not to mention extremely hypocritical considering they have one of the most corrupt FAs around.

Also, I'm gonna go all Wellenbrecher and complain about the immature, self-loathing Turkish SJWs who blindly love everything and everyone foreign even if he/she/it is complete BS/a dirtbag (yes, there are such people at a very popular site that could be called the Turkish Reddit or Urban Dictionary). They love Western racists/alt-right crowd because in their own twisted mind, they count on them to teach their own unwashed masses a lesson, even if a lot of decent people might suffer in the process. So they take the sides of the very people subjecting him to racist abuse despite their going against the Western values these SJWs supposedly hold so dear - nothing against these values themselves, but I just want to point out their hypocrisy. They even accuse him of being a snowflake, hold changing his mind about the German NT against him, suggesting more-seriously-than-jokingly he's only giving up because he's considering a political or celeb career in Turkey.

Don't get me wrong, we don't exactly have a lot to be proud of at the moment (he's not even one because he's chosen to be German, end of), and there are far more traditionalists and staunch nationalists in the country than such people, but the blind self-hating attitude isn't the way to go either. You can be against both your own racists and foreign racists, you know.
 
Feragorn said:
I mean, the Croatian soccer team is really buddy buddy with some Ustase-idolizing pop singer.
That's pretty ****ty, but since Ustashe was a Croatian phenomenon and the players are Croatian, it's a different kind of ****ty.

Ektor said:
kurczak said:
The multiple nationalities may work when everything's peachy, but like all things that only work when everything is peachy, they are actually useless.
That's just unecessarily harsh. The entirety of American societies were colonized by foreign people, there's a bunch of say, polish pride stuff in Brazil's south. I think that's an argument against holding two identities dear, and it doesn't really hold water.
kurczak said:
the German government is understandably anxious about Turkish officials campaigning in Germany among the dual citizens.
Why, exactly? It threatens them in absolutely no way.
Because people who identify with both country A and B and have some say in country A can influence country A to act in a way that doesn't benefit country A, but does benefit country B and possibly even harms country A. This seems to me kind of axiomatically wrong and undesirable from country A's perspective and can be, depending on the exact circumstances, classified as treason. But even if it doesn't qualify as outright treason, any country should make maximum effort to ensure that its citizens don't have any loyalty to other countries.

Sometimes the risk of such situation is very small, sometimes it's not. But it's always better to have no risk at all or at least have it approach zero. Poland and Brazil probably don't have any conflict of interest at the moment (afaik) or for the foreseeable future, so it might seems like benign folklore, but humor me and suppose Germany invades Poland once again and the many Polish-Brazilian start pressuring the government to declare war on Germany and start voting for politicians who promise to do so, not really because they consider any invasion anywhere bad and think it's Brazil's moral duty to militarily oppose invasions anywhere and everywhere, or because they think Brazil might benefit from doing so, but specifically because it's Poland and they feel loyalty to it and want to help it in any way they can and the way just happens to be dragging Brazil into war. Then the many German-Brazilians start doing the exact same and yet the exact opposite thing. Not only is Brazil now at risk of joining, on one side or another, a war that it would gladly stay out of if its citizens identified as just Brazilians, it is also facing a serious internal conflict.

Or perhaps not, perhaps Polish-Brazilians and German-Brazilians really see their Polish-ness and German-ness as just folklore and would only have Brazil's interests on their minds in any situations. And good for Brazil if that's the case, but it's not the case of (many) Turks in Germany or some other groups in some other countries.
 
kurczak said:

Our German community was quite pro-nazi in WW2, one of the reasons Mengele came here after the war. Nobody was bothered by it, even if Brazil was forced to enter the war against the Axis.
 
Apologies for jumping into this discussion - just felt I could provide some concrete examples.

The strong identification and link that some turkish germans share with Turkey can be concerning because a) turkish politicians have been calling on them to get involved in german (and european) politics to pursue turkish state interests b) the conflicts within turkey affect the minority here quite strongly and have led to violent clashes in germany and c) the turkish state, the ditib network and local volunteers have quite likely spied (and may still be spying) on those turkish german citizens that are considered problematic to the turkish state.

Given how past rallies were held in Germany (appealing to turkish origin, promoting turkish state agendas, attacking germany and europe, attacking opponents of the state), some worry about further amplification rather than alleviation of the aforementioned issues seems reasonable.
 
DanAngleland said:
You in that London, you would think like that. We don't want your HS2s coming through our back gardens!

I would've voted against HS2 as well, were it a choice. It cuts down the travel time between three crapholes by a few minutes? WOW. Maybe upper middle class whiners who live in Wales should also work in Wales, and not central London.
 
All HS2 is going to do is allow people who work in London to live in the north. Pushing up house prices there. I'm fairly sure it will pull jobs out of the north, not inject them into it.

Derailing this thread because talking about Turkey is boring. Everyone knows that British infrastructure projects are the real controversy of our age.
 
Duh said:
The strong identification and link that some turkish germans share with Turkey can be concerning because a) turkish politicians have been calling on them to get involved in german (and european) politics to pursue turkish state interests b) the conflicts within turkey affect the minority here quite strongly and have led to violent clashes in germany and c) the turkish state, the ditib network and local volunteers have quite likely spied (and may still be spying) on those turkish german citizens that are considered problematic to the turkish state.

I see, then there's an actual cause for concern. What are these pro-Turkey politics, in this case?
 
Strongly varies depending on the politician and their mood  :lol:

It can be about quite contentious stuff like ousting "terrorists" like suspected Gülen members or more acceptable matters such as furthering the entry process to the EU or otherwise turkey-friendly policy. More scandalous calls to action are typically limited to speeches in times of conflict. The political pamphlets that (viable/noticable) movements share are mostly about Völkerverständigung (:razz:) and Integration.

I think this is one such party: https://ad-demokraten.de

 
Kentucky James said:
Can't that logic also be applied to provincials who vote for highly localised issues? Or Nimby Nim?️?️ers?
To some extent, I guess. I dislike regionalism and particularism in politics too. A good way to combat is reducing number of electoral districts, ideally making the entire country a single electoral district, like the Israeli did with the Knesset. But at least with regionalism the ultimate beneficiary is still somebody within that country and not a different country.

I assume Nimby Nim?️?️ers means black people? I don't see why that would apply to them just on account of race unless some international actor presents itself as a representative of all black people everywhere. Did I miss something? :shock:

Ektor said:
kurczak said:

Our German community was quite pro-nazi in WW2, one of the reasons Mengele came here after the war. Nobody was bothered by it, even if Brazil was forced to enter the war against the Axis.
Ok, but you do realize it wasn't such a smooth ride with German dual citizens or even just ethnic Germans in other countries in that period, right?
 
kurczak said:
I assume Nimby Nim?️?️ers means black people? JACOB, YOU'RE A RACIST. #BANNED

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard. An acronym for the opportunistic opposition to building projects simply because they're close to you, not because you're opposed to them per se. A lot of countryside bri?️?️as will oppose any building project, even wind farms, and call for the cities to be made even more crowded rather than have even one sunflower field be redeveloped.

Imagine particularism, but limited to the line of sight of a single person's house.
 
Kentucky James said:
DanAngleland said:
You in that London, you would think like that. We don't want your HS2s coming through our back gardens!

I would've voted against HS2 as well, were it a choice. It cuts down the travel time between three crapholes by a few minutes? WOW. Maybe upper middle class whiners who live in Wales should also work in Wales, and not central London.

I wasn't serious, but I agree it probably will facilitate more of England becoming a commuter suburb of London.
 
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