What MUST be changed in BANNERLORD !

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Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
Half of them was spent modding the game, a creative process that grows your brain and other organs, and makes other people happy. Not by passively watching youtubers to tell you what to think.
What mods did you make? Are they on the Nexus?
 

kreamy

Sergeant
. It looks like it could possibly be an oversight or simply a bug, and certainly doesn't feel like intended behaviour to me. In your example video, it does seem that the fallback command is being overridden in some part when it comes to the defending AI engaging and fighting rather than continuing to fall back.

I will make sure it is included in our player feedback report and also forward the video you shared directly with the dev responsible for battle AI.
you'd think the intended behaviour would have been tested before early access.
 

Callum

Community Lead
you'd think the intended behaviour would have been tested before early access.

You would think that this kind of comment would have a purpose, but there you go...

The game is quite big and has many moving parts. Unfortunately, sometimes things can be missed or overlooked (similar to how I tested this specific thing earlier and all seemed fine until I went back and did more thorough testing).
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
I did a lot of programming for Prophesy of Pendor and The Last Days, both very successful full conversion mods. What's your point?
Just curiousity, nothing about the time u spent online,I have myself 4000 playing Coh2 online , I thought I could use your Mod on Bannerlord, and because there was a good modder called Darth in the Total war center forum, we use to talk directly with modders,was a nice time because without any skills I made some Mods myself using parts of other Mods, with permission of course.
Speaking of TWC, that place turned into a desert compared to what it was five or six years ago.
 
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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Hmm, I tested it just before making my reply to be certain how it works and had different results lol. However, after further testing now with just the formation and no enemies closeby I can see they turn around to fallback rather than keeping facing the enemy and walking backwards. However, with an enemy close to them they do keep facing the enemy while falling back, providing the enemy isn't too close. It looks like it could possibly be an oversight or simply a bug, and certainly doesn't feel like intended behaviour to me. In your example video, it does seem that the fallback command is being overridden in some part when it comes to the defending AI engaging and fighting rather than continuing to fall back.

I will make sure it is included in our player feedback report and also forward the video you shared directly with the dev responsible for battle AI.
Well, as I said, my gameplay experience is totally different. From the time you were so kind as to invite me to the closed beta (which I thank you for, along with what came after), one of the first problems I reported as feedback was this issue with the fallback command.

I know you will do your best to communicate this problem to the team, but let me show you a gif of how it's supposed to work (or so I understand).

giphy.gif

Manor Lords

Fallback should not be exclusive to any one formation; each and every one should operate the same way, whether or not there are enemies nearby. Pure fallback should perform like the ten steps back warband order, exactly the same. Bots must not deviate but maintain a constant direction perpendicular and subordinated to the current face direction command.

Thank you for your commitment
 

Callum

Community Lead
Well, as I said, my gameplay experience is totally different. From the time you were so kind as to invite me to the closed beta (which I thank you for, along with what came after), one of the first problems I reported as feedback was this issue with the fallback command.

I know you will do your best to communicate this problem to the team, but let me show you a gif of how it's supposed to work (or so I understand).

giphy.gif

Manor Lords

Fallback should not be exclusive to any one formation; each and every one should operate the same way, whether or not there are enemies nearby. Pure fallback should perform like the ten steps back warband order, exactly the same. Bots must not deviate but maintain a constant direction perpendicular and subordinated to the current face direction command.

Thank you for your commitment

We are in total agreement here. That is exactly how I would expect it to work as well.
 
Since we're talking about AI behaviour...

Poor legionaries...
I'm wondering what would be the best solution here.
Make the AI focus on one formation and ignore the other formation attacking from behind.
Or maybe a "turtle" formation moving towards one target.
In any cases, it would take a while before archers get out of arrows...
 

Calabanar

Sergeant
Poor legionaries...
I'm wondering what would be the best solution here.
Make the AI focus on one formation and ignore the other formation attacking from behind.
Or maybe a "turtle" formation moving towards one target.
In any cases, it would take a while before archers get out of arrows...
To be honest, I think the best soution, at least in this scenario, would be for the ai to split its troops in two different formations, just like the player.

Imperial archers get absolutely slaughtered by legionaries if they get into melee fresh.

However, I agree with the "turtle" formation, or at least the principle behind it. The legionaries on the side should try to protect the group from incoming missiles. Perhaps if the formation AI detected missile troops around it could tell its AI soldiers to protect the flanks instead of facing the direction they are moving to?

Idk :razz:

@Callum, what do you think?
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
As for the topic what must/should change in Bannerlord except fixing everything is troop trees and recruitment.

Here:

This is a good example how it could be. This mod is great and also from my observations slows down game pace a lot.
Together with Realistic Battle mod it makes battles last longer.

Right from the start I didn't like that they used the same system as in Warband cause I never liked it. I prefer to have one faction units plus mercenaries so running all across the map.tp get them is annoying.

I would also change the way units are grouped. Right now by default we have Infantry, Ranged, Cavalry and Horse Archers. Of course everybody can set up his army as he wants but it's a chore to do and doesn't affect AI armies.
I think inf should be splitted into light (non shielded), heavy (shielded) and pikeman/spearman. Cav should be splitted into ligh and heavy. Ranged should be splitted into crossbow and bow.

Each of these types behaves differently and by mixing them we get more dead. For example heavy cav is good for charging while light (horses without armor and lightly armored riders) dies easily while charging.
Crossbowman have longer range and we can put them further away than archers. Archers are faster both shooting and moving so they can be put in front.
Infantry with shields can block projectiles and is good in shieldwall while if mixed with non shielded they all die easier. Infantry with polearms is basically useless against anything but cav (if You place it correctly and with square formation).
So by default we get all that mixed up and it also makes battles faster cause this mix is causing units to die faster.

Of course this changes would also require to change how battles are played and instead of one side charging in (in formation or not what's random) against the other side defending position it should have a proper set of sending in group after group to attack and find a way to break enemy formation.
 
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Our goal is that ranged AI should be able to make these decisions and choose their own target effectively without the player needing to do this level of micromanagement. I know that some people prefer to play as a general and would prefer to have much greater control over every aspect of the battle, and the popularity of mods like the RTS camera show this. However, one of the core ideas of Mount & Blade is that you are just a person dropped into this world, and you lead and fight alongside your troops in the battles as your player character. A question arises about how you would select an enemy formation for your ranged troops to shoot at seeing as we don't have any similar mechanic like that in the game, meaning that it would need an entirely new design and everything that comes along with that. However, I will of course forward the suggestion to the team.
Yeah I gotta chime in and say a couple things. 1st, I sorta agree about the ranged units not needing to be targeted at a group IF they are fixed up a little bit to be more smart. However, I think the "Charge at highlighted group" effect of the RTS camera mod (individually called "Command system") is very useful and needed for Infantry and especially Cavalry. I don't think this feature conflicts with TW's vision of combat at all, it's actually a very small change that just makes a big difference. When testing this mod out I basically never found it necessary to use the overhead view and always targeted the desired group from close proximity, typically with my Cavalry already on fallow me in the area. The only difference is that now when the cavalry charges I have confidence that they will all attack the enemies I think they should, as a group and I don't have to worry about 1 or 2 going and riding into 50 enemies alone.

As it is in vanilla game I can "Hope" cavalry does what I intend, but usually a few will do something stupid and die. It makes using Cav questionable altogether.

With the RTS/Command System I have 1 extra step of high lighting the group I want charged , but then I don't lose a few to thier bad choices every time. It's a very small change that is a big improvement!

Of course this is equally useful for infantry, especially if you use them in irregular (not ramming 1 for 1) ways! SO many good plans a foiled because the infantry turns around and chases one guy around, getting shot in the butt the whole time. With the Command system they obey my command and it's much more enjoyable.

I'm the opposite of a hands-off player who wants to play from top down and not fight, I fight constantly and also micro everything! I just want my commands fallowed!
 
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