What makes Bannerlord dull

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If we're talking interactions with the NPCs, it is obvious that Bannerlord gives you way less tools to work with than Warband, or streamlines them behind menus. I have a problem with the nostalgia-heavy talk of "rich" and "interesting" characters in WB, the game just did a good job hiding the shallowness of the characters.

For reference, I'm a fan of the kind of the storytelling that emerges from CK2, that's the kind of things I find interesting

Bannerlord just gives you way less. It has all of these systems, new and old, and it just leaves it in the game as a half-baked idea that rarely if not ever interacts with other parts of the game, and when it does, it's so shallow a puddle looks a lake beside it.

And no, you just assume its nostalgia talk because you disagree with it, when in fact it is far from it. In comparison to Bannerlord, it's like night and day though. On its [Warband] own, the characters are no award winning characters, certainly, but they were interesting and the way the game mechanics allowed them to interact steadily with the player throughout their progress, called for richer experiences. This simply isn't a thing in Bannerlord, despite all it has ready to start such richer experiences. To deny this and claim that there is no difference in that between the two games, or that WB's lords were just as shallow, is intellectual dishonesty.

I'm sure that Bannerlord could accomplish this. Very easily. The problem is that the developers do not see this, or any of the most famous and desired features of Warband, as something worth pursuing in Bannerlord. Which they readily admit. Their vision is not to recreate everything from Warband, but something I don't even think they know...or are at least willing to be up front about to us.

And I am also a fan of Crusader Kings 2 and its randomized story events, and how you can form enemies/friendships and have events be "remembered" by the world and others within it. It isn't necessarily a very complex mechanic in what it offers, but it's enough to make the game very enjoyable and memorable, and as if your character is leading life the way you desire it. That was something I really hoped would pop in Bannerlord...
 
It would be very interesting to see Warner Bros. attempt to sue someone for what they believed was a breach of their system. How would they even go about proving that, if it looked radically different on the exterior? Especially since Dwarf Fortress employs a "similar" system that is actually far more complex.
 
I think you will like the next iteration of the encyclopedia "fog of war" - even if it doesn't completely resolve what you are describing.
Ty for answering, yeah Fog of War does sound like a good step towards a better game, but you guys need to start paying more attention to this side of the game. I mean, how much does it comes in meetings that players are desperate for some more political aspects on this game? This could be a 10/10 but you need to start paying attention to these areas, and start gathering outsider ideas, these forums are full of good ones.
 
It would be very interesting to see Warner Bros. attempt to sue someone for what they believed was a breach of their system. How would they even go about proving that, if it looked radically different on the exterior? Especially since Dwarf Fortress employs a "similar" system that is actually far more complex.
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.
 
To deny this and claim that there is no difference in that between the two games, or that WB's lords were just as shallow, is intellectual dishonesty.
Again, I'm talking the characters, not the interactions. BL could very well have more interesting and rich characters compared to WB, it's just that they're imprisoned behind wiki entrys without being able to come out in the actual gameplay, except for a brief moment during the main quest when they tell you their memories on the battle of Pendraic. I won't push any further because that's it.

Also what's up with the DF system? I've been playing the game on and off for years, do you mean the criminal system where schemes and plots are hatched? I don't think that's an equivalent to the nemesis system in any way, shape or form
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.
Not sure how an international suit would work, but if it is done the American way (loser doesn't compensate the legal fees), it could be extremely harmful to the company even in the event of victory.
 
Ty for answering, yeah Fog of War does sound like a good step towards a better game, but you guys need to start paying more attention to this side of the game. I mean, how much does it comes in meetings that players are desperate for some more political aspects on this game? This could be a 10/10 but you need to start paying attention to these areas, and start gathering outsider ideas, these forums are full of good ones.
A part of me thinks that they really delayed this part for last as its realistically easier than implementing things such as the order of battle system or the battle terrains, claimants, sally out missions etc. I would LOVE for TW to revamp kingdom and fief management and bring forward character interactions that are currently locked behind menus. I think TW should love that too, because as soon as any competitor shows up that DOES offer those features, TW is going to see the market slipping below its feet. So as they are currently the only ones feeling this niche of gaming, they feel comfortable with underdelivering
 
A lot of people are posting about not having dialog reflect personalities? But it does, here's some examples:
  • I hear you fought bravely against __ and made the __ pay heavily for their victory. I salute your courage and your men's sacrifice. (Honorable/Valorous)
  • So apparently you're a tough bite to swallow. I hear __ paid heavily in blood to defeat you. (Merciless)
  • I hear __ ran you down. Some speak of heroic last stands, but I say a defeat is a defeat. (Merciless and/or just dislikes you)
  • I hear you fought bravely against __ until you were finally overwhelmed by superior numbers. (Generous)
I did notice that change but on the other hand its carry's no weight and it should . In relationships high and low with the npc's and this should also effect dialog . For instance my character executed 40 empire lords and was hated by all the empire and it changed nothing the dialog change for some lords but i kept chopping heads and nothing . Some liking me will the try and recuse me from prisons or other way to show friendship invite to a feast buy me a horse some thing to make the world dynamic like its alive . I ones who hate you do nothing other than tell you in text you will regret what you have done then nothing. I personally am not happy with just battles being the main focus . I got crusader kings and the entire world is alive every single character is doing something and the battles are just a bar that fills up but its still exiting because it carries weight and impact on all the characters and how they act. I do hope TW expand on dialog and actions for me combats all but done they should work on the rest.
 
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.

It would be interesting though to watch WB reach that far for something they ultimately couldn't prove during a time when they've just lost 20b+. lol

Again, I'm talking the characters, not the interactions. BL could very well have more interesting and rich characters compared to WB, it's just that they're imprisoned behind wiki entrys without being able to come out in the actual gameplay, except for a brief moment during the main quest when they tell you their memories on the battle of Pendraic. I won't push any further because that's it.

Also what's up with the DF system? I've been playing the game on and off for years, do you mean the criminal system where schemes and plots are hatched? I don't think that's an equivalent to the nemesis system in any way, shape or form

Not sure how an international suit would work, but if it is done the American way (loser doesn't compensate the legal fees), it could be extremely harmful to the company even in the event of victory.

Yes, and I'm talking about both the characters and the interactions. They are both vastly different between both games. Bannerlord cannot be more interesting in its current state for numerous reasons, one of which is, yes, the wiki entries. But that is not its only problem. The NPCs just aren't interesting and they do not remember more than trivial things about you, they don't engage you, there's nothing to engage them in like feasts. All of these combine into a lifeless system where the player is more compelled to speed through the dialogues because there's nothing there worth stopping for.

I meant Dwarf Fortress in many ways, but a bit more specifically the way that it randomizes its content and builds on it thoroughly etc etc. It's very complex and intricate. You can have dwarves make their own involved decisions about their lives in the most meaningless way that later turns out to be something that defines them and you remember, for example, or a dwarf that goes rogue and turns into a cannibal and the settlement ends up remembering it for hundreds of years to recall back on. It's quite hard to describe the game, but it's really something special in how it builds worlds and events.
 
It would be interesting though to watch WB reach that far for something they ultimately couldn't prove during a time when they've just lost 20b+. lol



Yes, and I'm talking about both the characters and the interactions. They are both vastly different between both games. Bannerlord cannot be more interesting in its current state for numerous reasons, one of which is, yes, the wiki entries. But that is not its only problem. The NPCs just aren't interesting and they do not remember more than trivial things about you, they don't engage you, there's nothing to engage them in like feasts. All of these combine into a lifeless system where the player is more compelled to speed through the dialogues because there's nothing there worth stopping for.

I meant Dwarf Fortress in many ways, but a bit more specifically the way that it randomizes its content and builds on it thoroughly etc etc. It's very complex and intricate. You can have dwarves make their own involved decisions about their lives in the most meaningless way that later turns out to be something that defines them and you remember, for example, or a dwarf that goes rogue and turns into a cannibal and the settlement ends up remembering it for hundreds of years to recall back on. It's quite hard to describe the game, but it's really something special in how it builds worlds and events.
No no, I play DF. I just wanted to know what system in particular you were referring to. Yes I agree that something like the memory system could be a welcome addition to BL, provided that you iron out the occasional extreme silliness (I've had several dwarves become serial killers because they got rained on)
 
I hope you don't mind me weighing in to talk about what I think to a post that might be a bit too old for you to feel like talking about lol. It has been a few months after all...
In my opinion, among many others, this is the worst offender: The encyclopedia. The encyclopedia makes this game dull. When you make an RPG, a roleplaying game, it's important you make a world where a role can be effectively played, that means that every decision you take to give a player information, counts on how immersed will the player be while taking that role. Imagine if Skyrim started and the first thing it told you was that you were the dragonborn, right from the go, through a line of text in the menu and when you press "Tab" it gives you all the information of every character in the game? Sure you can play the game anyways, but you are being robbed of the mistery of knowing people, discovering a world, and to effectively, playing a role, a huntsman build wouldn't be an omnipresent being.
I disagree about the (formerly useful) Encyclopedia being detrimental to the game for several reasons; first and foremost, this is not an RPG, definitely not a game that can be compared to Skyrim since they play about as much like M&B as it does with the Sims; there may be a few faint similarities and overlap here and there, but nobody would ever mistake them for one another due to the numerous differences. I've noticed that "what even is Mount and Blade?" is a disputed question since it doesn't easily fit into most established genres, but I've always consider Mount and Blade a tactics-focused strategy game since I first played Warband when it was new on PS4. Therefore, when analyzing and appraising these games, I've always done so from how they play out as tactical and strategic games.

As for how that relates to the Encyclopedia, I'd say the relation is that many strategy game, perhaps even most of them, have something similar that tells you at least some basic information on all the cities, castles, officers/characters/NPCs, and other information particular to those games. However, different strategy games DO impose a level of obscurity to this information and thus require you to use Spies (or something similar) to gather information. I do think Bannerlord could benefit from a system like this, although the current implementation is very poor and contrary to what it ought to be doing, since I have enjoyed strategy games where you have to send out spies in order to stay up-to-date with Encyclopeida-like information such as city stats, officer loyalty, food/money/troop numbers, etc. and it'd be good for Bannerlord if the player could work with spies to gather this type of information (and, very relevantly, broad location of non-allied units/characters). I wouldn't obscure character appearances, family relations, or ages since these things do nothing more than annoy players in practice and the way the Fog of War system was implemented has not been made compatible with pre-existing systems (such as marriage arrangements), never mind reloading existing game saves only to discover everybody you know is considered a stranger in the Encyclopedia.

In Bannerlord, you're forced to be an omnipresent being, because the encyclopedia is the main, and only source of information for the player. That means that now making relationships with lords is completely useless. Making a conversation system where you HAD to get to know lords, to know their attitudes? No, press one button in the encyclopedia and you now know. Getting to know people in the game doesn't exists, because you don't need to. In Warband, the only way you had was to make quests for them or to plot against other lords they didn't like. It was a rudimentary system that needed improvement, but instead Bannerlord throws an interesting but flawed system out of the window and just says "eh here it is, press a button, this lord is... Devious".

The Encyclopedia in Warband was extremely transparent--the only thing you didn't know was a character's personality like in Bannerlord. The only bit of information I can think of that was obscured and required investigation was current (approximate) locations of other characters, but even that was merely streamlined in Bannerlord since it updates every time you enter a city (maybe other places to, or talking to nobles?). I would argue, related to what I said above, that personality would be better hidden until you actually got to interact with a character since this sort of thing isn't usually transparent outside reputation (if a character is even famous enough to have a real reputation) and knowing a character's personality and whereabouts is strategically useful and thus something spies ought to keep you up to date on.

Let's imagine a little bit here: What if skill points, like charisma, or roguery (either ours or our companions') allowed us to unlock Lords' traits, that would mean you need to get resourceful to get information, and its not just magically thrown into you. Maybe, knowing the location of every lord withouth asking could be a spymaster perk, because you get information from anywhere and you just know things, but nope, you just know everything the second you set foot in a town.
I would not like this information to be perk-based--it ought to organically come from in-game sources. An anti-social recluse could reasonably be up to date on world events and other people if they know a guy who runs a network on their behalf after all.
The next thread is Influence, but I think I'll just write on it in the comments when I feel like it. Sometimes writing about Bannerlord I get frustrated halfway through, because is completely useless to think of this game or to suggest anything at all since devs don't care about it.
I understand your frustration even though I both disagree with you on the developers caring about it (at the very least, the sustainability of their jobs depends on it) and the general pessimism with the game--I view it as one of the greats already, though marred with bugs and released officially way too quickly. Even if they halted development now, I'd still it a great game since I've enjoyed plenty of games with horrible glitches, bugs, and unfinished/half-baked mechanics although it would be deeply shameful for the developers since it would mean they not only abandoned something that could have been greater but they also knowingly left it in a state that should, at the very least, be cleaned up.

It's a perfectly fine game as it is now, though sometimes illogical, stupid, and unfinished in places, but the game absolutely most be cleaned up on a technical level since I'd rather have a "tight" game that doesn't have dirty banners, women who can't wear women's clothes without clipping issues (glad that's fixed), endemic save corruption issues (glad that's fixed), crashes (hope that's fixed lol), and more issues than a game that has a breadth of smart mechanics and sophistication but is ugly as hell from distorted textures and can't even operate for longer than an hour without corrupting and forcing you out of the game lol (of course it's not THAT bad, but a lot of players have had dozens of hours wasted due to corruption and the banner/shield texture issues are outright offensive to me lol).
 
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