What makes Bannerlord dull

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Ser Jon

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
If we're talking interactions with the NPCs, it is obvious that Bannerlord gives you way less tools to work with than Warband, or streamlines them behind menus. I have a problem with the nostalgia-heavy talk of "rich" and "interesting" characters in WB, the game just did a good job hiding the shallowness of the characters.

For reference, I'm a fan of the kind of the storytelling that emerges from CK2, that's the kind of things I find interesting

Bannerlord just gives you way less. It has all of these systems, new and old, and it just leaves it in the game as a half-baked idea that rarely if not ever interacts with other parts of the game, and when it does, it's so shallow a puddle looks a lake beside it.

And no, you just assume its nostalgia talk because you disagree with it, when in fact it is far from it. In comparison to Bannerlord, it's like night and day though. On its [Warband] own, the characters are no award winning characters, certainly, but they were interesting and the way the game mechanics allowed them to interact steadily with the player throughout their progress, called for richer experiences. This simply isn't a thing in Bannerlord, despite all it has ready to start such richer experiences. To deny this and claim that there is no difference in that between the two games, or that WB's lords were just as shallow, is intellectual dishonesty.

I'm sure that Bannerlord could accomplish this. Very easily. The problem is that the developers do not see this, or any of the most famous and desired features of Warband, as something worth pursuing in Bannerlord. Which they readily admit. Their vision is not to recreate everything from Warband, but something I don't even think they know...or are at least willing to be up front about to us.

And I am also a fan of Crusader Kings 2 and its randomized story events, and how you can form enemies/friendships and have events be "remembered" by the world and others within it. It isn't necessarily a very complex mechanic in what it offers, but it's enough to make the game very enjoyable and memorable, and as if your character is leading life the way you desire it. That was something I really hoped would pop in Bannerlord...
 

Ser Jon

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It would be very interesting to see Warner Bros. attempt to sue someone for what they believed was a breach of their system. How would they even go about proving that, if it looked radically different on the exterior? Especially since Dwarf Fortress employs a "similar" system that is actually far more complex.
 

Goyyyio

Sergeant
I think you will like the next iteration of the encyclopedia "fog of war" - even if it doesn't completely resolve what you are describing.
Ty for answering, yeah Fog of War does sound like a good step towards a better game, but you guys need to start paying more attention to this side of the game. I mean, how much does it comes in meetings that players are desperate for some more political aspects on this game? This could be a 10/10 but you need to start paying attention to these areas, and start gathering outsider ideas, these forums are full of good ones.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
It would be very interesting to see Warner Bros. attempt to sue someone for what they believed was a breach of their system. How would they even go about proving that, if it looked radically different on the exterior? Especially since Dwarf Fortress employs a "similar" system that is actually far more complex.
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.
 

Madijeis

Sergeant
WBNW
To deny this and claim that there is no difference in that between the two games, or that WB's lords were just as shallow, is intellectual dishonesty.
Again, I'm talking the characters, not the interactions. BL could very well have more interesting and rich characters compared to WB, it's just that they're imprisoned behind wiki entrys without being able to come out in the actual gameplay, except for a brief moment during the main quest when they tell you their memories on the battle of Pendraic. I won't push any further because that's it.

Also what's up with the DF system? I've been playing the game on and off for years, do you mean the criminal system where schemes and plots are hatched? I don't think that's an equivalent to the nemesis system in any way, shape or form
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.
Not sure how an international suit would work, but if it is done the American way (loser doesn't compensate the legal fees), it could be extremely harmful to the company even in the event of victory.
 

vito397

Sergeant Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Ty for answering, yeah Fog of War does sound like a good step towards a better game, but you guys need to start paying more attention to this side of the game. I mean, how much does it comes in meetings that players are desperate for some more political aspects on this game? This could be a 10/10 but you need to start paying attention to these areas, and start gathering outsider ideas, these forums are full of good ones.
A part of me thinks that they really delayed this part for last as its realistically easier than implementing things such as the order of battle system or the battle terrains, claimants, sally out missions etc. I would LOVE for TW to revamp kingdom and fief management and bring forward character interactions that are currently locked behind menus. I think TW should love that too, because as soon as any competitor shows up that DOES offer those features, TW is going to see the market slipping below its feet. So as they are currently the only ones feeling this niche of gaming, they feel comfortable with underdelivering
 
A lot of people are posting about not having dialog reflect personalities? But it does, here's some examples:
  • I hear you fought bravely against __ and made the __ pay heavily for their victory. I salute your courage and your men's sacrifice. (Honorable/Valorous)
  • So apparently you're a tough bite to swallow. I hear __ paid heavily in blood to defeat you. (Merciless)
  • I hear __ ran you down. Some speak of heroic last stands, but I say a defeat is a defeat. (Merciless and/or just dislikes you)
  • I hear you fought bravely against __ until you were finally overwhelmed by superior numbers. (Generous)
I did notice that change but on the other hand its carry's no weight and it should . In relationships high and low with the npc's and this should also effect dialog . For instance my character executed 40 empire lords and was hated by all the empire and it changed nothing the dialog change for some lords but i kept chopping heads and nothing . Some liking me will the try and recuse me from prisons or other way to show friendship invite to a feast buy me a horse some thing to make the world dynamic like its alive . I ones who hate you do nothing other than tell you in text you will regret what you have done then nothing. I personally am not happy with just battles being the main focus . I got crusader kings and the entire world is alive every single character is doing something and the battles are just a bar that fills up but its still exiting because it carries weight and impact on all the characters and how they act. I do hope TW expand on dialog and actions for me combats all but done they should work on the rest.
 

Ser Jon

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It would be the opposite of interesting because WB wouldn't need to prove a goddamned thing in order to have BL tied up in the courts for months or years on end. Nobody wants that ****.

It would be interesting though to watch WB reach that far for something they ultimately couldn't prove during a time when they've just lost 20b+. lol

Again, I'm talking the characters, not the interactions. BL could very well have more interesting and rich characters compared to WB, it's just that they're imprisoned behind wiki entrys without being able to come out in the actual gameplay, except for a brief moment during the main quest when they tell you their memories on the battle of Pendraic. I won't push any further because that's it.

Also what's up with the DF system? I've been playing the game on and off for years, do you mean the criminal system where schemes and plots are hatched? I don't think that's an equivalent to the nemesis system in any way, shape or form

Not sure how an international suit would work, but if it is done the American way (loser doesn't compensate the legal fees), it could be extremely harmful to the company even in the event of victory.

Yes, and I'm talking about both the characters and the interactions. They are both vastly different between both games. Bannerlord cannot be more interesting in its current state for numerous reasons, one of which is, yes, the wiki entries. But that is not its only problem. The NPCs just aren't interesting and they do not remember more than trivial things about you, they don't engage you, there's nothing to engage them in like feasts. All of these combine into a lifeless system where the player is more compelled to speed through the dialogues because there's nothing there worth stopping for.

I meant Dwarf Fortress in many ways, but a bit more specifically the way that it randomizes its content and builds on it thoroughly etc etc. It's very complex and intricate. You can have dwarves make their own involved decisions about their lives in the most meaningless way that later turns out to be something that defines them and you remember, for example, or a dwarf that goes rogue and turns into a cannibal and the settlement ends up remembering it for hundreds of years to recall back on. It's quite hard to describe the game, but it's really something special in how it builds worlds and events.
 

Madijeis

Sergeant
WBNW
It would be interesting though to watch WB reach that far for something they ultimately couldn't prove during a time when they've just lost 20b+. lol



Yes, and I'm talking about both the characters and the interactions. They are both vastly different between both games. Bannerlord cannot be more interesting in its current state for numerous reasons, one of which is, yes, the wiki entries. But that is not its only problem. The NPCs just aren't interesting and they do not remember more than trivial things about you, they don't engage you, there's nothing to engage them in like feasts. All of these combine into a lifeless system where the player is more compelled to speed through the dialogues because there's nothing there worth stopping for.

I meant Dwarf Fortress in many ways, but a bit more specifically the way that it randomizes its content and builds on it thoroughly etc etc. It's very complex and intricate. You can have dwarves make their own involved decisions about their lives in the most meaningless way that later turns out to be something that defines them and you remember, for example, or a dwarf that goes rogue and turns into a cannibal and the settlement ends up remembering it for hundreds of years to recall back on. It's quite hard to describe the game, but it's really something special in how it builds worlds and events.
No no, I play DF. I just wanted to know what system in particular you were referring to. Yes I agree that something like the memory system could be a welcome addition to BL, provided that you iron out the occasional extreme silliness (I've had several dwarves become serial killers because they got rained on)
 
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