What kind of new faction(s) would you like to see added to the game in the future?

[five bucks]

I mean, Mongolia is likewise super far away from France yet there was a not-Mongolia in Warband so it's hardly unprecedented. Besides, this is a fantasy world, any two-bit writer could justify civilizations based off historically far-off ones being close by with minimal effort. They could even place a not-Korea in that cold peninsula northeast of Sturgia and have isolationism and big boats as the reason why they don't appear in Warband; they're too isolationist to leave and too boat-loving to be invaded effectively lol. Maybe stick not-Japan in the not-Arctic Sea while they're at it lol.

To me, and from what I've seen quite a few other people as well, a big appeal of Bannerlord and Warband is its very close approximation of the real world medieval period in a Europe/MENA setting.

With that in mind, throwing in random other parts of the globe would take away from it for me (though I'm free not to buy the expansion, it would presumably have other features in it that I'd want) and presumably some others too.

But I would love to see an expansion which adds optional campaigns on a whole new map in the "M&B world's version of Asia" region, rather than trying to tack it onto the existing map.

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

To me, and from what I've seen quite a few other people as well, a big appeal of Bannerlord and Warband is its very close approximation of the real world medieval period in a Europe/MENA setting.

With that in mind, throwing in random other parts of the globe would take away from it for me (though I'm free not to buy the expansion, it would presumably have other features in it that I'd want) and presumably some others too.

But I would love to see an expansion which adds optional campaigns on a whole new map in the "M&B world's version of Asia" region, rather than trying to tack it onto the existing map.

Same for me. It's a good fantasy version of Europe and, as a console gamer, there's basically no strategy games taking place in Europe or European-esque settings. However, if the world is sufficiently big (and I'd say Calradia is already big enough that you could easily look at Vlandia and the Duzeg Steppe as two different continents) then it's not really deviating in such a way as to make it questionable as to why 2 civilizations could turn out so differently since they're far apart enough that it's believable they don't have much direct influence on each other.

I don't mind toggles on size of the playable world (or something) but I'd actually rather the continuous world be expanded so it feels more like an explorable planet rather a closed loop with a question mark on what lies east of the mountain ridges, deserts, and arctic wastes. Although, having said that, it'd be crazy to imagine the practical reality of trying to make a fantasy not-Eurasia and it'd probably be easiest if the continent was essentially a huge island. More pragmatically, I think it'd be interesting if distant nations existed for trade purposes even if not rendered or otherwise interacted with.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

To me, and from what I've seen quite a few other people as well, a big appeal of Bannerlord and Warband is its very close approximation of the real world medieval period in a Europe/MENA setting.

You could kind of make this argument for warband, but in bannerlord that clearly went out the window.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Really? I LOVE the Japanese-looking armor the Khuzaits have spliced with the lamellar of the Sturgians--just such a cool look that approximates the style I like to roll with in this game.

You can't really be a historical pedant about a fictional universe, can you? I mean, you can be a lore pedant, but I think it's a little silly to take IRL as the only basis for a fantasy world and... it helps most historically-enthused people I'm even superficially familiar with are weebs lol. But that might just be because my own entry into historical interest was Japanese video games like Dynasty Warriors and Romance of the Three Kingdoms lol, so I'm kinda in a bubble... but even basic perusing on YouTube makes it clear that East Asia is super popular among English-speaking history buffs. Or maybe it's just an echo chamber I'm trapped in, lol...

I don't mind anachronistic armor existing when I'm too ignorant to know better but when I do I prefer it to be rare and treated as, basically, high experimental cutting-edge technology that you need stocks in Google to be able to afford lol.

I'm not against the anarchronistic gear because of muh historical accuracy myself. I just think real stuff from the actual periods is a lot more interesting and vastly underrated. Actual historical accuracy should not be primary... but when your franchise is basically about a silly old 'Knights vs Vikings vs Nomads' thing, it would be good if things actually had historical basis.

That... and I think the resulting anachronisms look ugly anyway. But I guess it's driven me to make my own stuff so... woo?

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

You could kind of make this argument for warband, but in bannerlord that clearly went out the window.

I think the game suffers for abandoning it. I don't want an authentic 11th century Europe, but it would have been nice if things felt like... something that actually feels like the early middle ages.

And what's worse is they don't even use a lot of the assets anyway, so what's the point of them?

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

I'm not against the anarchronistic gear because of muh historical accuracy myself. I just think real stuff from the actual periods is a lot more interesting and vastly underrated. Actual historical accuracy should not be primary... but when your franchise is basically about a silly old 'Knights vs Vikings vs Nomads' thing, it would be good if things actually had historical basis.

That... and I think the resulting anachronisms look ugly anyway. But I guess it's driven me to make my own stuff so... woo?

Sure, I understand, and I'd encourage the developers to look into the real world stuff the fiction's based on for further inspiration since a lot of "hidden" gems can be lost by defaulting to more familiar stuff. After all, the "vikings" of Warband and Bannerlord look way cooler than their equivalent culture in TES and Skyrim in particular, so a strive for greater historical inspiration can result in some pretty sweet digs that'd be unlikely to be independently inspired by modern artists influenced by half-naked dudes in harnesses and horned helmets lol.

Ignorance is likely part of my general indifference because it seems "believable enough" especially since it's not actually 11th century Europe but 11th century Calradia, and I have no idea what went on in Calradia's history that would lead to the development of this or that but I do know, even in the real world, technology (and other forms of) growth were not parallel developments. An extreme example being... the Inca? Maya? Somebody, basically, inventing sewers and irrigation but never figured out how to make a wheel. And when extremes like that have historical precedence, it's believable that, in a fantasy world... certain artifacts of antiquity are maintained, certain things from later times are acquired sooner, and original universe things were invented/applied/etc. as well.

 

[five bucks]

You could kind of make this argument for warband, but in bannerlord that clearly went out the window.

Yes and no, there are obvious historical inaccuracies here and there but nothing so egregious as dropping, say, not-Aztecs in the middle of not-Europe

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I'd say having "celts" "vikings" and "mongols" in "1000 AD", not to mention all the fantasy armour and weapons, is pretty egregious. It's more based on hollywood stereotypes than history directly.

I'm not against the anarchronistic gear because of muh historical accuracy myself. I just think real stuff from the actual periods is a lot more interesting and vastly underrated. Actual historical accuracy should not be primary... but when your franchise is basically about a silly old 'Knights vs Vikings vs Nomads' thing, it would be good if things actually had historical basis.

Yes, definitely. Why would I want a corny fake version of history when I can play 1257 AD and larp as a Byzantine directly. These budget brand historical settings always suffer from this. I would rather they either did a proper historical setting, or made something clearly divorced from reality rather than this uncanny valley.

 

[Totalgarbage]

I'd say having "celts" "vikings" and "mongols" in "1000 AD", not to mention all the fantasy armour and weapons, is pretty egregious. It's more based on hollywood stereotypes than history directly.

I agree with the part about fantasy armour and so on, but several Celtic kingdoms, several Turkic kingdoms and empires, the Kievan Rus (as well as "Vikings") did exist in 1000 AD. Of course, I don't think the Welsh, the Scots or the Irish interacted with the Seljuqs or the Kievan Rus much, if at all, but they did all exist at 1000 AD.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

They were Celts in that they spoke Celtic languages and continued some of their artistic traditions, but the game portrays them like a cross between Braveheart, the Jacobites and Vercingetorix. They have falxes, double-edged swords and hexagonal shields like its 300 BC, but also random flashes of tartan like it's 1701. Nothing they have screams to me "early medieval welsh and scots". I think one of the 3d artists even compared them to the elves from LOTR.

Also the flavour text says that the Khuzaits are supposed to be the Cumans or Seljuqs or whatever, but that's clearly not the case, they're 100% hollywood Mongols. They all look like Xi Jinping, all the troop names are literally Mongolian words, and their weapons and armour are practically Chinese.

 

[Totalgarbage]

They were Celts in that they spoke Celtic languages and continued some of their artistic traditions, but the game portrays them like a cross between Braveheart, the Jacobites and Vercingetorix. They have falxes, double-edged swords and hexagonal shields like its 300 BC, but also random flashes of tartan like it's 1701. Nothing they have screams to me "early medieval welsh and scots". I think one of the 3d artists even compared them to the elves from LOTR.

Also the flavour text says that the Khuzaits are supposed to be the Cumans or Seljuqs or whatever, but that's clearly not the case, they're 100% hollywood Mongols. They all look like Xi Jinping, all the troop names are literally Mongolian words, and their weapons and armour are practically Chinese.

This I agree with you, the weapons & armour for most factions, especially for Battanians & Aserai are basically Hollywood at this point.

 

[Apocal]

This I agree with you, the weapons & armour for most factions, especially for Battanians & Aserai are basically Hollywood at this point.

The Aserai are better in terms of realism but probably because they cribbed a bunch of **** from the post-medieval Ottoman Empire.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

The Aserai are better in terms of realism but probably because they cribbed a bunch of **** from the post-medieval Ottoman Empire.

They look like Aladdin ****, when its not Ottoman. I don't think they're great either. I think just about all the factions have a crisis of identity and 'realism'... which I don't think is the right word anyway.

Real arab warriors had a very distinct look that would have been amazing to have. We need more kazaghands, not mirror plate dammit.

 

[five bucks]

not to mention all the fantasy armour and weapons, is pretty egregious. It's more based on hollywood stereotypes than history directly.

There are only a handful of armour pieces and weapons that I would call outright fantasy-looking. And then a handful which are blatantly anachronistic, but not fantasy either. 95% of the stuff in the game is fine for the time period, or only a minor stretch.

To make an analogy, just because there's pee in the pool doesn't mean you should dump trash in it.

For me, I get a reasonably good early medieval Europe/MENA feel from Bannerlord the majority of the time. If Aztecs and Samurai and Aboriginals were thrown into the middle of that like fish out water, that appeal would be mostly lost. That's why I (and probably others) would personally prefer new cultures to be added in a way that makes rough geographical sense with the real world, or else transtitions to an entirely new map.

No need to put Japan in Central Africa when you can create an Asia map to play on.

Yes, definitely. Why would I want a corny fake version of history when I can play 1257 AD and larp as a Byzantine directly.

Because ideally once it's done, compared to mods like that, Bannerlord will be a more complete and stable and fun game.

*Laugh track*

No, but really that's what I'm hoping. Though I will also probably play In the Name of Jerusalem II a lot when that mod's done, for a more closely representative historical experience.

At any rate, "very low fantasy that's essentially real life with minor changes" is pretty much the brand of Mount & Blade now.

They were Celts in that they spoke Celtic languages and continued some of their artistic traditions, but the game portrays them like a cross between Braveheart, the Jacobites and Vercingetorix. They have falxes, double-edged swords and hexagonal shields like its 300 BC, but also random flashes of tartan like it's 1701. Nothing they have screams to me "early medieval welsh and scots".

Tartan-like patterns were used by Celts from antiquity through to the medieval and then modern period, they aren't too out of place.

National Museums of Scotland - Cloth (Fragment)

Falces and """""rhomphaia"""""" are a meme as a weapon, but similar agricultural tools would have existed both in ancient and medieval times. Overall though yes, Battania is one of the biggest mishmashes in the game. Their high tier armour is the worst offender, straight out of fantasy.

I think one of the 3d artists even compared them to the elves from LOTR.

There's certainly a lot of confusion between the art team and writers (past and present) on what they're going for.

Real arab warriors had a very distinct look that would have been amazing to have. We need more kazaghands, not mirror plate dammit.

I agree it would be better to have more realistic period stuff.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

There are only a handful of armour pieces and weapons that I would call outright fantasy-looking. And then a handful which are blatantly anachronistic, but not fantasy either. 95% of the stuff in the game is fine for the time period, or only a minor stretch.

In 1000 AD just about every contemporary depiction of soldiers in europe and the middle east, with the occasional exception of the byzantines, is chainmail shirts and hauberks with conical or spherical helms. I'm not exaggerating, a guy who used to post on the forums compiled a massive collection of military depictions, and in the 11th century section it's *all* chainmail or just tunics, with occasional lamellar from seljuks or (possibly) byzantines.

11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Illustration of Soldiers

warfare.tk

Compare this stuff to anything in the game currently:

Spoiler

This is a completely random selection of screenshots from google images. There is more leather, random slabs of scale and plate, belts and fur than anything else. The Empire looks...okayish, so long as you ignore everything that isn't tier 2 - 4.
I could probably point you to the exact Osprey book a lot of these are based on, and they're all from the late 13th century or even later.

 

[five bucks]

In 1000 AD just about every contemporary depiction of soldiers in europe and the middle east, with the occasional exception of the byzantines, is chainmail shirts and hauberks with conical or spherical helms. I'm not exaggerating, a guy who used to post on the forums compiled a massive collection of military depictions, and in the 11th century section it's *all* chainmail or just tunics, with occasional lamellar from seljuks or (possibly) byzantines.

Bannerlord is 600s-1000s. Not just 1000s. And most stuff in it is conical or spherical helms, and mail, and lamellar.

11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Illustration of Soldiers

warfare.tk

Compare this stuff to anything in the game currently:

Spoiler

This is a completely random selection of screenshots from google images. There is more leather, random slabs of scale and plate, belts and fur than anything else. The Empire looks...okayish, so long as you ignore everything that isn't tier 2 - 4.

I'm sure it is completely random, but it's not representative of the majority of armour pieces in Bannerlord. You have like 5 different characters shown there, two of whom are wearing the same body armour. The plate shoulders item (which I agree is a big anachronism) isn't even used by troops, only a few heroes. Nobody has more than 2 belts. I don't see an issue with the wearing of fur by the groups that do so in Bannerlord (Sturgians and Battanians and two minor factions).

Another big factor too is that whoever made the bottom 2 images has terrible fashion sense, and is throwing together random cultures' armour pieces willy-nilly.

I could probably point you to the exact Osprey book a lot of these are based on, and they're all from the late 13th century or later.

Anachronisms wasn't your original argument though, it was "fantasy". I already agreed there are anachronisms, I'm saying that Bannerlord has hardly any fantasy stuff.

I can't really see anything in the images you've provided that looks like it could only be found in a "fantasy" setting, and not real life.

 

[sh1ny4]

In 1000 AD just about every contemporary depiction of soldiers in europe and the middle east, with the occasional exception of the byzantines, is chainmail shirts and hauberks with conical or spherical helms. I'm not exaggerating, a guy who used to post on the forums compiled a massive collection of military depictions, and in the 11th century section it's *all* chainmail or just tunics, with occasional lamellar from seljuks or (possibly) byzantines.

11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Illustration of Soldiers

warfare.tk

Compare this stuff to anything in the game currently:

Spoiler

This is a completely random selection of screenshots from google images. There is more leather, random slabs of scale and plate, belts and fur than anything else. The Empire looks...okayish, so long as you ignore everything that isn't tier 2 - 4.
I could probably point you to the exact Osprey book a lot of these are based on, and they're all from the late 13th century or even later.

Battanian really got the short hand of the stick :/
It's a shame they were originally designed as "the barbarians" and given atrocious rags, furs and scales. The latest additions of battanian armours makes them much more interesting.
Same for the khuzaits, both factions could really welcome new armours.

But yes, many armours are pretty bad, either from a design or accuracy point of view. All brigandines for example are bad...

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Bannerlord is 600s-1000s. Not just 1000s. And most stuff in it is conical or spherical helms.

When they first announced the game the time period of inspiration was actually the fall of the western roman empire, i.e. the 300s and 400s AD. I have spoken to one of the 3D artists who was instructed specifically to make stuff from this period with clear historical references, but in 2014 they said it was "600-1000 AD" at some point around 2015-2016 they just changed it to the 11th century. The game's calendar even starts in the 1000s.

They also started giving the artists a lot fewer instructions. Look at this:

Dev Blog 01/11/18 - TaleWorlds Entertainment

WHERE DO YOU DRAW YOUR INSPIRATION FROM?
“I draw much of my inspiration from medieval TV shows and movies. We also have a large collection of medieval history books here at TaleWorlds which I check out when I lack inspiration.”

By the admission of one of their most senior modellers, they just make whatever they feel like. Here are some more interviews with artists and you'll see the same trend. None of them talk about concept art, just collecting references independently.

Dev Blog 12/10/17 - TaleWorlds Entertainment

DURING THE DESIGN PROCESS, DID YOU SIMPLY DRAW INSPIRATION FROM OUT OF THE BLUE, OR DID YOU USE EXISTING HISTORICAL/FICTIONAL SOURCES? AND IN EITHER CASE; WAS IT HARD TO STICK TO A CERTAIN "PERSONALISED" DESIGN AND NOT COPY TOO MANY ELEMENTS FROM EXISTING DESIGNS?

As I said before, we tend to stick to historical influences for our designs. But as an artist, of course one would like to be creative, so I usually try to add small ideas and imprint my own personality on to the design. There are also cases that I have to be creative, especially when I can’t find reasonable or enough resources for a functioning model, and so I have to engineer it myself.

Anachronisms wasn't your original argument though, it was "fantasy". I already agreed there are anachronisms, I'm saying that Bannerlord has hardly any fantasy stuff.

Most of the battanian, aserai and khuzait armours aren't really based on anything specific. They're fantasy in the same way the armour in the Hobbit films is fantasy, but more so because of the amount of belts and furs they put on them.

For example the battanian oathsworn is straight out of braveheart. Ive never watched the film but i recognised it instantly. And I shouldn't need to tell you that braveheart is not a historically accurate film.

Spoiler

 

[Totalgarbage]

In 1000 AD just about every contemporary depiction of soldiers in europe and the middle east, with the occasional exception of the byzantines, is chainmail shirts and hauberks with conical or spherical helms. I'm not exaggerating, a guy who used to post on the forums compiled a massive collection of military depictions, and in the 11th century section it's *all* chainmail or just tunics, with occasional lamellar from seljuks or (possibly) byzantines.

When they first announced the game the time period of inspiration was actually the fall of the western roman empire, i.e. the 300s and 400s AD. I have spoken to one of the 3D artists who was instructed specifically to make stuff from this period with clear historical references, but in 2014 they said it was "600-1000 AD" at some point around 2015-2016 they just changed it to the 11th century. The game's calendar even starts in the 1000s.

I'm gonna be honest, yes you're most likely right about the ahistoricity of the armor, in 11th century most warriors probably would've worn maille armour, but I kinda prefer the approach that TW has taken because it makes the game look more interesting. I've told before that VC is my favourite of the franchise, but one "issue" that I can't get over (it's not actually an issue, it's a faithful adaptation if anything) is how similar all the soldiers are to one another.

Don't get me wrong, they shouldn't be adding (some) things that are blatantly ahistorical like pavises or the Gaulish or the Ottoman armour (to an Arab inspired faction to boot), although I'm not really inflexible about it either because I think Dacian Falxes are ****ing cool.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I'm gonna be honest, yes you're most likely right about the ahistoricity of the armor, in 11th century most warriors probably would've worn maille armour, but I kinda prefer the approach that TW has taken because it makes the game look more interesting. I've told before that VC is my favourite of the franchise, but one "issue" that I can't get over (it's not actually an issue, it's a faithful adaptation if anything) is how similar all the soldiers are to one another.

Yeah I agree, if they had done a "historically accurate" Bannerlord set in 1000-1100 it would be nothing but kite shields and hauberks for most of the factions, and even thought that is basically my own favorite historical era, even I wouldn't play a game like that.

I think they've (quite rightly) just gone for maximum player LARP potential, because every soyboy wants to pretend to be a Viking or a Mongol or a Roman, but hardly anyone outside of academia even knows who the Cumans or Lakhmids were. If they took the logical step and added the Spartans and Samurai and other popular LARP factions it really wouldn't be that out of place in my eyes.