What is going on with the armour 3d modelling?

[musashii89]

Thing is, an artist can't be tasked with 'actual content'(If you're thinking 3d is not). The art team doesn't have anything to do with the refactoring, so they have plenty of time to work on improving their art. I think criticism of their assets is valuable, and agree with a some of the critiques, but I just disagree with the conclusion of what is going on with the armour 3d modelling.

To be honest, it just feels like the artist for the recent armours was forced to follow some strict poly count that the other artists were not :p

To me it just seems like all new content is rushed and poorly thought out. Lets be real, it seems obvious they are just trying to tie a bow on this so they can palm it off to modders to fix/improve/makeplayble for free.

 

[John_M]

To me it just seems like all new content is rushed and poorly thought out. Lets be real, it seems obvious they are just trying to tie a bow on this so they can palm it off to modders to fix/improve/makeplayble for free.

Clearly they are going to make sure the game is very moddable. But I won't say that Taleworlds rushed a game they spent this long on. They are clearly trying to make a game they're proud of, I don't buy this as some sort of modding scam.

If this is what rushing is, I'd hate to see Taleworlds take their time :p

 

[Piconi]

Gotta say, the suggested chainmail looks a lot worse. Sure the original could have cleaner borders and more volume when transitioning to the cloth, but the large rings make it look like its made for an engine from 10 years ago when they didn't have texture resolution for detailed smaller rings.

I'm pretty sure the suggested chainmail is borrowed from the multiplayer Vlandian Sergeant's armor, so the "10 years ago" texture is already in the game. Plus he probably used stamping to press it onto newer armor so the rings are displaced a bit, but i saw beyond that and what the general idea is, which isnt "make it literraly like this".

Honestly to me there is not much visible difference in quality of the two, just that the new one has too small rings and too grey ring color.

There are of course higher and lower quality of armor sets in the game, but all of these newer ones follow the same path-lack of volume, that's what bugs me personally.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Of course the concept art doesn`t have to look as good final product(though I've seen many examples from Terco that are better). So I can forgive things like resolution and other parts. I said it looks worse because even if massive rings and that belt set up were done perfect, they'd still be worse.

I don't think these nitpicks have any relevance to BL's art direction post EA(though I do appreciate a breakdown of an asset when accessing its own quality). Chainmail size, colour, direction of patterns, and chainmail design just feels like a matter of opinion and nitpicking. I don't think you can say the direction of BL's art is going down the drain based on these assets. You can find assets of lower quality in the game already, this doesn't really raise any red flags for me.

As HalfMetalJacket says, the idea was to take elements within the game's pool without having to rely on elements from foreign models. Regarding the chain mail, my intention was to refer to the loricas hamata of mild steel of the republican period (Celtic models) and I don't know if you remember it but in one occasion we already talked about chain mail (I referred to the one used in one of the models of your mod). But well; I recognize it, I haven't been careful enough in this occasion. But in my defense I will say that this is not a Tercosketch .

Joking aside and as you say, it is plausible that the artist wants to reduce the number of polygons; it is known that a low polycount is favourable for good performance. We have been told that the armor sets vary between 8k-12k; but there are interesting ways to achieve this with little effort. Tell me John_M, how many k's does a complete set of armor add up to in this model?

Lossarnach Axemen 3D Model (3d view sketchfab)

 

[KSHMR]

This is like looking at your beard in the mirror. It actually looks great, but as soon as you start obsessing with it you notice everything it lacks (patches) and can't get it out of your head.

Leave it to the modders, they will make something nice of it surely

 

[John_M]

chainmail is borrowed from the multiplayer Vlandian Sergeant's armor, so the "10 years ago" texture is already in the game.

Kinda verifies what I said about there being assets of lower quality in the game already :p

As HalfMetalJacket says, the idea was to take elements within the game's pool without having to rely on elements from foreign models. Regarding the chain mail, my intention was to refer to the loricas hamata of mild steel of the republican period (Celtic models) and I don't know if you remember it but in one occasion we already talked about chain mail (I referred to the one used in one of the models of your mod). But well; I recognize it, I haven't been careful enough in this occasion. But in my defense I will say that this is not a Tercosketch .

Joking aside and as you say, it is plausible that the artist wants to reduce the number of polygons; it is known that a low polycount is favourable for good performance. We have been told that the armor sets vary between 8k-12k; but there are interesting ways to achieve this with little effort. Tell me John_M, how many k's does a complete set of armor add up to in this model?

I can assure you a huge amount of the Bannerlord models go beyond 12k, there are some horse armours that are alone 20k. I think the 8k-12k is the goal, which is why I joked that this artist may have been the only one forced to follow the limit :p

That armour set is 12,200 triangle(it would have been more if I gave him the proper leg armour in that preview :p). Which is a decent amount below the limit I would put for this character as you can factor in the rarity of the unit, and the role(2h axe is cheaper for the engine than a fully armed knight).

 

[black_bulldog]

Dammit Terco I never noticed all that stuff before. Now I can't unsee it. Why did you do this to me!

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This is like looking at your beard in the mirror. It actually looks great, but as soon as you start obsessing with it you notice everything it lacks (patches) and can't get it out of your head.

Leave it to the modders, they will make something nice of it surely

Kinda verifies what I said about there being assets of lower quality in the game already :p



I can assure you a huge amount of the Bannerlord models go beyond 12k, there are some horse armours that are alone 20k. I think the 8k-12k is the goal, which is why I joked that this artist may have been the only one forced to follow the limit :p

That armour set is 12,200 triangle(it would have been more if I gave him the proper leg armour in that preview :p). Which is a decent amount below the limit I would put for this character as you can factor in the rarity of the unit, and the role(2h axe is cheaper for the engine than a fully armed knight).

I have nothing further to add, Your Honor.
---

black_bulldog Because I am evil.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

With all this Battanian armour coming out, I really wished we got some naked woad for Battania.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

One more beat to the dead horse...

I certainly don't understand what is happening with the new models. Once again I say (and it seems that I am not the only one who comments on it) good concept, bad 3d execution.

Here you have a comparison. I would like to make a comparison with the CA models; how they have more volume and still are optimized enough to move thousands of agents in a scene; far more than Bannerlord moves.
If the professional behind this work is an intern in testing please give her/him another assignment (making secondary props, flora or whatever...) This is not professional 3d quality for a game like Bannerlord, imo.

@Callum Sorry to quote you and more for something obviously secondary, but still please let this be known; it is not correct.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

And they killed my cubs Ulfhednars with an ugly chainmail and polka pants :/ They need to step it up a gear, design wise that is

 

[ElCrisp]

I agree about certian armour models lacking a sense of volume / depth.

Armour and weapon assests are the most important in my mind as the player spends the most time looking at them and engaging with them.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

And they killed my cubs Ulfhednars with an ugly chainmail and polka pants :/ They need to step it up a gear, design wise that is

They did that a while ago, and because everyone complained that they died too easily. You get what you ask for.

I don't mind the pants tbh, wasn't that pretty much what they wore back then?

 

[El Capitan]

I would like them to make a remake of the khergit lancer's armor

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The second image looks great, love the rugged look, not really a fan of the Khuzait armour sets if I'm being honest , currently there's not a lot of options for their top tier/ultra armour but I'm sure TW is working on adding more or I hope they do.

 

[Marko͘]

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lol

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

They did that a while ago, and because everyone complained that they died too easily. You get what you ask for.

I don't mind the pants tbh, wasn't that pretty much what they wore back then?

Yeah i remember that and i didnt get what they where talking about. Ive been rocking solid with em before and they could be fearsome fighters in the right set of tactics.To bad they followed the main streamers suggestion with copying the berserkers armor instead of higher their HP which would be better in my opinion if they now must buff em a notch. Armor makes em slow and not tactical better in my opinion as an fearsome assault unit

 

[El Capitan]

As a designer and a person who cares about aesthetics, I really appreciate this post.

Thank God someone else shares my deep hatred for the Battanian highland Warlord set, it just doesn't fit into the Battanian line up and looks jarring when compared to the newly released Celt inspired sets of armour. Do I need to even mention the bulky and terrible proportions? Just looking at the shoulder piece makes me wonder what the designers were thinking when they made it. Also the colour sticks out to me, is it metal? what the hell is it made out of? It needs to either be replaced or removed because its god awful. I would love to see them add subtle blue tattoos to the battanian shirtless savage pants armour to really lean into that celt look, I think that would look great.

I hope they release some new Khuzait or Aserai armour soon, especially Aserai, their troops and lords barrow a lot of their armour from other cultures which really bugs me.

 

[El Capitan]

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lol

I hate that helmet, the rectangular brass plates ruins it for me. It would look much better without them.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

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lol

Stuff like this is so damn ugly it legitimately, unironically blows my mind. Designers really need to get it into their heads that you can make a culture look rough and rugged without giving them half-finished brown crackhead rags like this. 90% of the stuff in the game is just unwearable.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Yeah i remember that and i didnt get what they where talking about. Ive been rocking solid with em before and they could be fearsome fighters in the right set of tactics.To bad they followed the main streamers suggestion with copying the berserkers armor instead of higher their HP which would be better in my opinion if they now must buff em a notch. Armor makes em slow and not tactical better in my opinion as an fearsome assault unit

I don't think there's a real way of increasing HP in units, which is part of why elites don't feel exceptional compared to some looter. The underwhelming passive boosts from stats doesn't help either.

And even with that armour, they're still kind of frail. Their wolfhead helmet makes them so easy to kill its not funny. What they need is a new helmet, some sort of wolfhead over a helmet. They wouldn't be so bad that way.

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lol

I'm kind of curious about whether that helmet has any real historical basis to it or not. Can't say I've ever seen ravioli masks around. Its one thing to be ugly, but inspired by history, but another to just make something so goofy from nothing.