What happened?

[Ruthven]

What is that you want to do and you can't with the class system? In terms of armor, if you wouldn't go full naked, you unequipped gloves and boots because it was "unnecessary" weight and faster movement was a good trade-off, yeah no thanks, I don't want that BS in this game. You have sword&axe&mace&spear options for heavy inf, some unique weapons for the light inf, for shock troops you mostly have pikes and 1-2 choice in 2h weapons. The level of customisation is pretty much the same in terms of weapons.

Anyways after reading the replies you gave to the other people, I see this about going naked BS... *sigh*

- light/medium infs across all factions: Decent shield, decent melee weapon, decent spear, pick 2 1
- spear "options" are mostly: take this ****ty spear as a perk or don't have one
- heavy inf classes heavily underperform in melee if they don't take their designated meta weapon perk
- confusing, conflicting, or outright useless perks for bows and horses
- 0 options for light armour with good helmet and shield
- 2 handers are now a class which means no 2handers + armour + decent shield
- forcing peasant classes to exist and be played while being weak by design but still trying to fit them into the meta

worst of all:
- cannot take off my helmet on any class

bonus:
- you can't even keep your looted items to work around this system

 

[The Sign of 33]

You see this right here, you still do not comprehend the issue at hand. You are forcing how people should play the game instead of giving them the choice not to, and are looking for the most optimal loadout.

No one is asking for a 1:1 copy of warband, it had its issues. It was not balanced perfectly, but at it's core the warband class system can give both fun and competitive gameplay at the same time.


I booted up warband just for you, rhodok sgt has as followed:
Morningstar
great hammer
sledgehammer
maul
military pick
military sickle
spiked staff
fighting pick
soldier's cleaver
military cleaver
war cleaver
glaive
ashwood pike
war spear
pike

How you consider this from a game from 2010 okay is beyond me. Aside from the uniqueness of weapons each faction has in warband
spear

Dude, they already explained why they didn't go with the grade system around EA launch, what are you on about here? If you are aganist some noobs as you keep getting better weapons they get lower and lower chance to beat you. Their explanation of why they went it was solid and logical and it works damn fine. Remove the grades and you have these type of weapons (not cleaver tho? big deal) in game already, they apparently tried to make factions prefer some weapons over others to make them feel more unique, you want more types? then say so, this point you are arguing here is not about the "class system", you want more options and they could do just that with more perks if they wanted to.

 

[XDaron]

**** fun
remove perks

 

[Younes]

Dude, they already explained why they didn't go with the grade system around EA launch, what are you on about here? If you are aganist some noobs as you keep getting better weapons they get lower and lower chance to beat you. Their explanation of why they went it was solid and logical and it works damn fine. Remove the grades and you have these type of weapons (not cleaver tho? big deal) in game already, they apparently tried to make factions prefer some weapons over others to make them feel more unique, you want more types? then say so, this point you are arguing here is not about the "class system", you want more options and they could do just that with more perks if they wanted to.

What is the grade system???

EDIT: I presume it means the progression the class system gives when it comes to gold. Yes 33, a grade system is superior to the perk system and there is no reward for being a better players in bannerlord. Their reasoning is absolute garbage because the perk system does NOT address the issue of snowballing for better players at all. If you don't know how to play you will be bad no matter what equipment you get.

You're literally one of the only few people left who think this garbage system is fun and thrilling.

The player numbers speak for themselves

 

[The Sign of 33]

- spear "options" are mostly: take this ****ty spear as a perk or don't have one

Don't know what you mean by ****ty as it does its' job (anti-cav) just damn fine? I believe they kept it simple to balance it correctly in terms of the lenght and speed, giving a chance to a cav player if he is good but still, it can be a major pain in the back for cav.

- confusing, conflicting, or outright useless perks for bows and horses

Really? I think the descriptions are good on both of those and their effects are noticeable, at least for me.

- heavy inf classes heavily underperform in melee if they don't take their designated meta weapon perk

You need to pick accordingly for the faction you are aganist and it works for me. Swords are kind of weak, it needs to be better aganist unarmoured enemies. There are times when I go with bastard swords tho. Is that really a problem with the class system? I believe the same thing would have happened if we had the old system.

- forcing peasant classes to exist and be played while being weak by design but still trying to fit them into the meta

Not related to the class system, rather a balancing issue. I remember when peasants ruled the MP, ahahah.

What is the grade system???

EDIT: I presume it means the progression the class system gives when it comes to gold. Yes 33, a grade system is superior to the perk system and there is no reward for being a better players in bannerlord.

in your opinion it might be superior, for me it's not. I like saving time with the perks and I like how they made classes have their own identity.

Their reasoning is absolute garbage because the perk system does NOT address the issue of snowballing for better players at all.

Their reasoning is spot on, which happens rarely. You just try to focus on the extra points they tried to squeeze in which were weak, the main reasons for the system were solid.

If you don't know how to play you will be bad no matter what equipment you get.

You're literally one of the only few people left who think this garbage system is fun and thrilling.

Exactly, you will be bad no matter what equipment you get and you will be good even if your weapon doesn't deal that 10 more damage.

The player numbers speak for themselves

Yeah I'm sure that's it. The class system is making people quit the game, not the barebones state of the game or the decade long feeding BS to the fanbase experience, buttered up with indifference and incompetence by TW or the bugs that can literally cause hearing damage which happens to come back every once in a while, even tho TW claims they fixed them. Get real please, noone quits the game because of the class system, at best it's not perfect but it works damn fine. We just have a game where even the most basic features that should have been there on day 1, still not implemented mostly. Heck, we didn't even have a report button at EA launch and you think players would just stick around if it was the old system. Keep dreaming buddy. If anything class system is better for new players. People left because there was hardly anything that TW didn't fail at...

 

[TheSpartan]

i suppose you all like warband naked bois coming in and destroying the entire server with zero skill just spinning around looking down and moving like ****ing bmw s1000rr cuz they're naked. oh also they can tank one hit from any weapon, sometimes two. !!!!

 

[Younes]

in your opinion it might be superior, for me it's not. I like saving time with the perks and I like how they made classes have their own identity.

When more then half says the warband one was better then yes, it isn't an opinion anymore. You need to draw a line at when something becomes a fact after countless of polls and threads.

Their reasoning is spot on, which happens rarely. You just try to focus on the extra points they tried to squeeze in which were weak, the main reasons for the system were solid.

Their reasoning has been complete dissected more than a year ago in the premade thread, yet you still cling to this idea their ideas are solid, it's literal denial you're showing.

Exactly, you will be bad no matter what equipment you get and you will be good even if your weapon doesn't deal that 10 more damage.

If it doesn't change anything why are you so much anti choice? Your point literally goes against the perk system as it removes things that you see as unnecessary yourself and won't make a difference anyway.

Also bannerlord is very similar to warband when it comes to weapon stats.

Battanian Oathsworn without bastard sword perk and with it :
Battanian longsword -> battanian bastard sword:
swing spd 91 -> 84
swing dmg 68 -> 70
thrust spd 93 -> 89
thrust dmg 41 -> 46
length 102 -> 109
handling 92 -> 85

Talk about "meaningful choices"

Yeah I'm sure that's it. The class system is making people quit the game, not the barebones state of the game or the decade long feeding BS to the fanbase experience, buttered up with indifference and incompetence by TW or the bugs that can literally cause hearing damage which happens to come back every once in a while, even tho TW claims they fixed them. Get real please, noone quits the game because of the class system, at best it's not perfect but it works damn fine. We just have a game where even the most basic features that should have been there on day 1, still not implemented mostly. Heck, we didn't even have a report button at EA launch and you think players would just stick around if it was the old system. Keep dreaming buddy. If anything class system is better for new players. People left because there was hardly anything that TW didn't fail at...

Class system is one of those things that make the game bare bones, it's one of the things accumulating to the multiplayer being utterly boring and not attracting any new players.

I wasn't implying the class system was the only thing that caused people to leave, i am not as delusional as you.

i suppose you all like warband naked bois coming in and destroying the entire server with zero skill just spinning around looking down and moving like ****ing bmw s1000rr cuz they're naked. oh also they can tank one hit from any weapon, sometimes two. !!!!

If you can't kill someone with zero skill what makes that you? -1 skill?
If you can't kill a spammer, i suggest you try and turn on your brain and block one hit and hit back since spammers don't block.

 

[Helz]

What is that you want to do and you can't with the class system? In terms of armor, if you wouldn't go full naked, you unequipped gloves and boots because it was "unnecessary" weight and faster movement was a good trade-off, yeah no thanks, I don't want that BS in this game.

Anyways after reading the replies you gave to the other people, I see this about going naked BS... *sigh*

Going without armor has a big tradeoff. You're not covered in metal and you're dead in 2 hits, so of course you're faster. People who played naked and had a positive K/D were doing it for the challenge. Those players were even better with armor and a shield, and they'd equip them for any competitive match.

Remove the grades and you have these type of weapons (not cleaver tho? big deal) in game already, they apparently tried to make factions prefer some weapons over others to make them feel more unique, you want more types? then say so, this point you are arguing here is not about the "class system", you want more options and they could do just that with more perks if they wanted to.

All of the weapons he listed were from a single faction's infantry class. Out of the 15 weapons he listed, I count 9 distinct playstyles. Every faction had their own flavor of weapons and armor.

I can understand that someone stepping into Warband MP towards the end of its lifecycle would have a terrible time. The only people left playing had many thousands of hours. People talk about how tough it is to jump into Bannerlord MP now, after a year of Early Access. Imagine waiting 10 years and then trying. So its no surprise that you missed the magic and thought that the naked players were OP. But they weren't and the old system was better for casuals and pros.

 

[Alyss]

Did we find another blind fanboy ? Huzzah! At least some things never change

 

[The Sign of 33]

When more then half says the warband one was better then yes, it isn't an opinion anymore. You need to draw a line at when something becomes a fact after countless of polls and threads.

I don't know which polls you are talking about and I don't really care. The results won't be healthy in a platform where you can manipulate them easily by creating multiple accounts therefore I don't value them. Even if the results were to be correct, I have seen those "popular choices" and where it can lead. As in the case with a fix for snowballing in SP, a post which advocated that defeated lords should respawn with certain number of troops would fix it and got thousands of upvotes, you know what happened later? People were now complaining about the defeated lords coming back too soon and defeating them got pointless and repetitive. I speak for myself to establish the fact there's also people who are fine with it, I know most other people won't be bothered with it.

Their reasoning has been complete dissected more than a year ago in the premade thread, yet you still cling to this idea their ideas are solid, it's literal denial you're showing.

If it doesn't change anything why are you so much anti choice? Your point literally goes against the perk system as it removes things that you see as unnecessary yourself and won't make a difference anyway.

I told you what their reasoning was, you just cherry pick a few of the extra weak points of theirs that they probably thought of at the last second to populate the list further and try to use that in your argument. Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.

My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose.

Class system is one of those things that make the game bare bones, it's one of the things accumulating to the multiplayer being utterly boring and not attracting any new players.

I wasn't implying the class system was the only thing that caused people to leave, i am not as delusional as you.

Class system doesn't take away from the content at all, almost all of the "types of weapons" you made a list of, are in the game and it's not a feature to prevent TW to add even more. How does it make the game "bare bones"? Another text-salad.

I'm sorry I didn't know how else to take "player numbers speak for themselves", lol. It might be a big deal for yourself but the player numbers have nothing to do with the class system, you know that, if there's anyone claiming they quit the game because of the class system is just putting on a BS show. There are gazillions of reasons which are exponentially more valid to quit the game. "I quit the game because of the class system", yea... right...

Did we find another blind fanboy ? Huzzah! At least some things never change

Wow, a kiddo trying to get attention with cheesy jabs. Takes 5 minutes to check someone's post history, go and see how much of a fanboy I have been since closed beta, that's why the mods love me anyways.

 

[Alyss]

Wow, a kiddo trying to get attention with cheesy jabs. Takes 5 minutes to check someone's post history, go and see how much of a fanboy I have been since closed beta, that's why the mods love me anyways.

If you cant get the difference between warband and bannerlord class system you are not worthy of writing suggestions on the forum. Fanboy.

 

[The Sign of 33]

If you cant get the difference between warband and bannerlord class system you are not worthy of writing suggestions on the forum. Fanboy.

"suggestions", which suggestions? Open your eyes kiddo. I didn't and I don't need to write up any suggestions because the system I'm upholding is in the damn game, I just came to check if there is any logic behind your whole circle jerk here and so far found none, lol. When you only have cheesy jabs, you can't possibly think you will be taken seriously. I like the class system, why are you mad about that kiddo?

 

[Alyss]

"suggestions", which suggestions? Open your eyes kiddo. I didn't and I don't need to write up any suggestions because the system I'm upholding is in the damn game, I just came to check if there is any logic behind your whole circle jerk here and so far found none, lol. When you only have cheesy jabs, you can't possibly think you will be taken seriously. I like the class system, why are you mad about that kiddo?

Liking the class system is different than claiming it’s similar to warband and isn’t a huge deal. You are one of the few that doesn’t find the current class system terrible, but even tho people explained to you why they liked warband system better you still say that they have no arguments.
Now you know why I’m making fun of <snip> you.

 

[Helz]

My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose.

It worked great though, for a bunch of reasons. Most important, skill beats gear. A noob in full plate will get beat down in 5 seconds by a better player dressed in cloth sack wielding a stick with a nail. Next, ranged beats skill. The best melee players are always the favorite targets for every archer on the map. Let anyone get elite armor, I guarantee their corpse is going to look like a porcupine. Finally, weapons are cheap. In a 1,500 gold server, every weapon is available at spawn. In a 1,000 gold server, most of them are. Armor helps, but weapons matter more. A lot of the best players never even spent their gold, preferring to swag. Hence the "OP naked players".

 

[Tork789]

I don't play captain, but I think players suggested before that they think that having exactly the same classes doesn't exactly work there. Maybe TW also decided that it's the case so they are trying it out now? What's wrong with realizing that you were wrong and fixing it? Why attack them, so they double down on the mistake? Because it's the knee-jerk reaction when you get attacked like this. I'm not saying they will do that, I'm confident they are better than this, but you Younes should be happy to see that they are budging, maybe your wet dream of having the equipment system back is not that far from reality.

 

[aLiaXXXanger]

« I say you have no argument because I want to be right »
Can’t expect more from a bannerlord fanboy.

@The Sign of 33 said: "Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.
My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose."

Isn't that a well-founded argument in favor of his opinion? Which I also, by the way, share.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

@The Sign of 33 said: "Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.
My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose."
Isn't that a well-founded argument in favor of his opinion? Which I also, by the way, share.

1) Better default equipment is all that's needed for the first point so people can spawn and play without thinking about it, or see Mordhau's system which allowed preset or preselected equipment choices that could be fully customised. The Armoury in BL could easily do this as well.
2) In all game modes except Captain and now Duel (where economy has never mattered, so it's irrelevant), you gain gold and can select better classes and in Skirmish, even more lives which is far more snowbally, so this issue is still prevalent.

 

[Alyss]

@The Sign of 33 said: "Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.
My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose."

Isn't that a well-founded argument in favor of his opinion? Which I also, by the way, share.

I’m not saying he has no argument I’m saying he is claiming we have no arguments. You used quotation marks in your post so you probably know how they work.
His arguments are valid, even tho I would argue that having working servers or custom servers would save more time to newbies. Then, about giving bonuses to better players, they still get more money for winning the round. You have to understand that the better players will always beat the bad player (unless you add rng and crushthrough lol).
Now I will let you read the arguments of the people who actually told him why warband system was better. Hope you can read better than the other clown.

 

[Younes]

I don't know which polls you are talking about and I don't really care. The results won't be healthy in a platform where you can manipulate them easily by creating multiple accounts therefore I don't value them. Even if the results were to be correct, I have seen those "popular choices" and where it can lead. As in the case with a fix for snowballing in SP, a post which advocated that defeated lords should respawn with certain number of troops would fix it and got thousands of upvotes, you know what happened later? People were now complaining about the defeated lords coming back too soon and defeating them got pointless and repetitive. I speak for myself to establish the fact there's also people who are fine with it, I know most other people won't be bothered with it.

Just neglect anything that you don't agree with, that's your take on anything that concerns assessing the overall opinion on a subject, great way of doing.

Popular opinions are not always great i can agree on that, but you can't go around with this with all popular opinions and then say it was a bad thing because the ultimate change made a bad change. Nerfing cav was a popular opinion, perks separate from skirmish and captain was a popular opinion just to name a few and they were all right.

I told you what their reasoning was, you just cherry pick a few of the extra weak points of theirs that they probably thought of at the last second to populate the list further and try to use that in your argument. Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.

My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose.

Your definition of cherry-picking relies on the sole basis that you believe Callum did it last second to populate the list. Is that how the whole development of the class system has been, last second? His point is as solid as the others but you just try to play a cherry-pick card while i could have gone for all the other points that, i could go for the "To be able to use the same system for all game modes", or the "Fully armored knight and peasants on the same battlefield" but i don't. You know why?

Read the original post and you would know the original purpose was about the specific point i have been so carefully "cherry picking" because the other points are as stupid as the one i picked

Your point of the "people focus on gameplay and save time setting" is laughable. You could literally change warband system to fix that issue and keep the same level of customization.

Contrary to your believe bannerlord has not gone around this issue in warband about "getting better via better equipment" because now you can simply get more lives which is the same snowball effect you can have in warband or even more so. This is WHY the point of "being good is better then getting better equipment" goes against your argument. Because good players can just spawn in as a rabble, loot equipment, and completely destroy some newbie legionnaire. (Talking skirmish specifically here).

For TDM or siege i don't even have to talk about it since the gold gained is so unclear, you could die 2 times and still get more gold then you originally spawned with. For casual game modes there is no incentive to survive as long as possible and make the most kills since you will get more anyway

Class system doesn't take away from the content at all, almost all of the "types of weapons" you made a list of, are in the game and it's not a feature to prevent TW to add even more. How does it make the game "bare bones"? Another text-salad.

It does take content away from the game, have you ever booted up the multiplayer? Literally not being able to pick armor is enough to show for the lack of customization.
Aside from that you still have the SP items not being used in MP, but you talk to me about "it doesn't take away from the content at all"

I'm sorry I didn't know how else to take "player numbers speak for themselves", lol. It might be a big deal for yourself but the player numbers have nothing to do with the class system, you know that, if there's anyone claiming they quit the game because of the class system is just putting on a BS show. There are gazillions of reasons which are exponentially more valid to quit the game. "I quit the game because of the class system", yea... right...

Did you read what i wrote? I said it was an accumulation of things. When you ask someone why they don't play MP they will just say it's bad because the MP is an accumulation of broken, crashy, unbalanced things. Try to read what i write next time.

I don't play captain, but I think players suggested before that they think that having exactly the same classes doesn't exactly work there. Maybe TW also decided that it's the case so they are trying it out now? What's wrong with realizing that you were wrong and fixing it? Why attack them, so they double down on the mistake? Because it's the knee-jerk reaction when you get attacked like this. I'm not saying they will do that, I'm confident they are better than this, but you Younes should be happy to see that they are budging, maybe your wet dream of having the equipment system back is not that far from reality.

They are budging on issues almost 2 years later they were pointed out Tork. Do i really need to explain more?

 

[The Sign of 33]

@The Sign of 33 said: "Class system was implemented for people to focus on gameplay and save time setting up their layout and also to prevent people who are already doing fine to get an upper hand via better equipment. Stop feeding me these nonsense drama text-salads and answer me why are these not solid reasons to uphold the class system? This is the concept they went with and you have plenty of choice.
My point goes hand in hand with their logic going with the class system, when you are doing fine already it doesn't make sense for you to get better armour and weapons which further decreases the other side's odds, you just keep ignoring that fact on purpose."

Isn't that a well-founded argument in favor of his opinion? Which I also, by the way, share.

Don't bother, he's not one of the bright ones and isn't worth your time. They don't even see they have conflicting arguments and they still refuse to understand. No matter how many times you point out their flawed logic, they will just prepare another text-salad for you. I found what I expected to find, I'll just let them circle jerk here in peace, lol.