What does the community want?

[bonerstorm]

I see, thank you. So this is the real purpose of shops now, not to make money but to farm renown ?. I would love to be able to say that this is enough to make me want to reinstall the game, but given that my main gripe with the game is related to the combat and they don't seem to even want to acknowledge that there is something wrong with that, that probably won't happen for a while...

Workshops aren't as bad as people say, honestly. They may have been nerfed, but they're still viable as long as you game the system.

It used to be that you could just make bookoo bucks by buying a brewery at Vostrum, for example. But now you make OK bucks unless you buy + change-up + sell all the breweries in the immediate area around Vostrum so there's less competition. Also it depends on the market: my consistent #1 money-makers 1.5.9 have been wool weaveries at Lycaron and Odokh since they appear to be lacking in general and sheep are cheap AF.

Similarly, a pottery shop at Phycaon works ok and same with a silversmith at Onira. Oil Press at Zeonica is good and - assuming you get replace the winery at Zeonica - you can make good money with a winery at Poros.

But - yes - you can totally get a bunch of gold, then grab workshops, then chill at a settlement with your wife on fast-forward while you leave the game to go make lunch IRL and come back a while later for a bunch of farmed denars + renown + maybe a kid or two.

 

[AngryNerd]

Where is option: "I would play multiplayer if it wasn't complete garbage"?

 

[ShakenSpeare]

You'd be surprised.

Oh, no doubt. That's why I specified most of the sensible people. I did not say that most ARE sensible.

Where is option: "I would play multiplayer if it wasn't complete garbage"?

+1

 

[Phantom425]

Firstly, I want to thank you for this post. It was really well put together, and did show me a lot about how I come off to other people who aren't me just thinking about what I am typing.

From my POV, I would in no universe consider this a hostile response. To then generalize that people on the fence about their attitude towards TW are immediately shut down is an insult to many people on these forums. We are human beings, we know who we are upset at, and it is not the players who genuinely enjoy BL.

Yeah, it wasn't. That guy was king and explained what the issue was. I have no issue with him, and that is why I never said anything to him as in calling him specifically toxic. He wasn't, and he does show that no everyone who has a problem with TW is toxic.

These two bolded things do not correlate to each other. You were ignorant, that is simply a fact (not an insult!). Your post quite literally articulated this point:

No, I wasn't. My argument was always in spite of their bad communication, and in spite of the fact that this has happened before, wait for the update to come out before you make judgements of what will happen. I also stated that that the devs very clearly wanted further input on what would happen in the future.

Reading back, I will tell you right now, you do not know the way TW operates with the community. If you did, you would not say this. But this was said nonetheless, calling the forum 'piss vinegar' and telling people they are taking a wrong approach. I really cannot comprehend how you then have the audacity to say:

You are right, I should not have said piss and vinegar. I apologize for saying this, it did put down a lot of people in the forum that I simply didn't need to. I'm not gonna edit the message to remove it, because that would be hiding what I said. Once again, I do apologize to anyone who I may have insulted by saying that. I know that sounding genuine can be difficult over text, but take my word for me being genuine here.

Secondly, I said that following me just being labeled a white knight and being called ignorant quite a few times after I elaborated on my points. I also said that looking back earlier in this post. OP, while clearly not perfect, was met with a sense of hostility, with having his points be simply dismissed as a "troll", kinda making it seem like it was either that or he was an idiot. Me saying that was not just me complaining about what I said, but what I saw in this thread and also that attitudes of people when speaking about their dissatisfaction about the game. That is why I had the audacity to say that.

If you believe I missed any key details, do say as I have read in full every reply (to and received) up to that last one. Essentially, what people were trying to convey was that this "wait and see" mindset has occurred more times than just the modding debacle. You have only experienced the modding debacle, which is why I assume you have good faith in TW in delivering in their communications. I'm not saying the community is invulnerable from their shares of disrespect, but as a million people have told you, we already had a phase of politeness and promises of soonTM, that did not work.

I don't totally have good faith in TW, I just think that the modding debacle is an entirely different beast. Bannerlord cannot survive without modders, so I somewhat assume that TW would try and cater to them in the future. TW has had difficulties with communication, and has also had difficulties with many other things, but I think for this one they are going to look further into this issue and do the most that they can. And, my biggest point is that the letter worked, so do more. Bring massive members of the community together, don't just make posts on the forums. Reach out to people outside to forum, even on the reddit or other places. Most people want the best for Bannerlord, and I do think that 99% of the people here want the same.

Edit:
I forgot to put this in my first post, but I saw the argument "telling people to calm down just makes them angrier" or "there's no use in arguing with angry people". I don't quite get this argument, as it doesn't reflect poorly on me more so on those who you are saying are angry. If someone is angry enough that when someone says "calm down and think about this differently", that is not a rational person. I don't think most people are like this on this forum, and my point was never as simple as that, but it isn't an argument against what I am doing.

 

[bonerstorm]

Secondly, I said that following me just being labeled a white knight and being called ignorant quite a few times after I elaborated on my points. I also said that looking back earlier in this post. OP, while clearly not perfect, was met with a sense of hostility, with having his points be simply dismissed as a "troll", kinda making it seem like it was either that or he was an idiot. Me saying that was not just me complaining about what I said, but what I saw in this thread and also that attitudes of people when speaking about their dissatisfaction about the game. That is why I had the audacity to say that.

I appreciate that you've been playing for a while and lurking for a bit. Also I'll concede that maybe I - myself - was unfair in shutting you down and discounting your opinions so quickly.

The thing you've got to understand about our experience, though, is that this forum has been repeatedly bombarded for the past year by aggressive, toxic people raging at any criticism of this game or the devs.

Almost always these people have no clue what they're talking about. Just today there's a guy derailing the modder open letter megathread with hypotheticals about how MAYBE TaleWorlds is hamstringing mod development for our own good because some mods might violate copyright law - something TW has never suggested because any admission of intentional mod hamstringing would provoke riots in this forum.

A couple weeks ago there was another newbie who flamed community members in a dozen threads after starting a ~400 hour Warband YouTube Let's Play a few WEEKS before. To be clear: this feat would only be possible if they did nothing but play Warband and eat and maybe sleep (I mean... meth is also a thing?). This individual proceeded to flame everyone about how much better Bannerlord was than Warband, despite not playing either for more than a month or so plus showing ignorance about basic features of either game. *I* even caught flak from other forum members for being harsh to this person, who then started to drop "troll" posts like doing nothing but gaming for a month - at the expense of all decency, sanity and personal hygiene - was all an elaborate troll job.

Some people are just pathologically fixated on this game being good or getting good - then react with violent rage at anyone who disturbs their fantasy.

And, as I've said before, I've worked for software developers and I'm also a forum member in other Early Access projects. I'm practically obsequious to Daniel Fedor despite manifold bugs and delays with his games because I know that I can reach him on Discord whenever I want and have a real conversation with him within a reasonable amount of time afterwards. My default position is politeness but, at a certain point, politeness has to give way to frustration and - in the real adult world of software development - that is normal. Any dev who cannot take criticism of their product and any community rep who can't communicate with their customer base is screwing up at their jobs.

We are straight-up telling you that the devs have been ignoring and obfuscating and lying for a year. Politeness has not worked. By your suggestions to the contrary, you're calling us liars and/or idiots.

If at any point TW decides to turn things around, I guarantee that forgiveness would follow virtually instantaneously. But that hasn't happened. I worry that it won't. And your posts aggressively trying to tone-police us are not going to be greeted with respect, because - by any sane definition - you are a white knight. Own it, brother.

 

[stevehoos]

I appreciate that you've been playing for a while and lurking for a bit. Also I'll concede that maybe I - myself - was unfair in shutting you down and discounting your opinions so quickly.

The thing you've got to understand about our experience, though, is that this forum has been repeatedly bombarded for the past year by aggressive, toxic people raging at any criticism of this game or the devs.

Almost always these people have no clue what they're talking about. Just today there's a guy derailing the modder open letter megathread with hypotheticals about how MAYBE TaleWorlds is hamstringing mod development for our own good because some mods might violate copyright law - something TW has never suggested because any admission of intentional mod hamstringing would provoke riots in this forum.

A couple weeks ago there was another newbie who flamed community members in a dozen threads after starting a ~400 hour Warband YouTube Let's Play a few WEEKS before. To be clear: this feat would only be possible if they did nothing but play Warband and eat and maybe sleep (I mean... meth is also a thing?). This individual proceeded to flame everyone about how much better Bannerlord was than Warband, despite not playing either for more than a month or so plus showing ignorance about basic features of either game. *I* even caught flak from other forum members for being harsh to this person, who then started to drop "troll" posts like doing nothing but gaming for a month - at the expense of all decency, sanity and personal hygiene - was all an elaborate troll job.

Some people are just pathologically fixated on this game being good or getting good - then react with violent rage at anyone who disturbs their fantasy.

And, as I've said before, I've worked for software developers and I'm also a forum member in other Early Access projects. I'm practically obsequious to Daniel Fedor despite manifold bugs and delays with his games because I know that I can reach him on Discord whenever I want and have a real conversation with him within a reasonable amount of time afterwards. My default position is politeness but, at a certain point, politeness has to give way to frustration and - in the real adult world of software development - that is normal. Any dev who cannot take criticism of their product and any community rep who can't communicate with their customer base is screwing up at their jobs.

We are straight-up telling you that the devs have been ignoring and obfuscating and lying for a year. Politeness has not worked. By your suggestions to the contrary, you're calling us liars and/or idiots.

If at any point TW decides to turn things around, I guarantee that forgiveness would follow virtually instantaneously. But that hasn't happened. I worry that it won't. And your posts aggressively trying to tone-police us are not going to be greeted with respect, because - by any sane definition - you are a white knight. Own it, brother.

"Some people are just pathologically fixated on this game being good or getting good - then react with violent rage at anyone who disturbs their fantasy."

This is exactly what is going on. ^^^

 

[Honved]

What I wanted was a better single-player version of Warband with a few more settlement and kingdom options, and hopefully at least some semblance of an actual economy, but most importantly, a game where if you demolish an army, it doesn't come right back a week later with even more high-level troops than the first time. I wanted a game with consequences for victory or defeat, for supporting or undermining a local economy, or for assisting or double-crossing a rival lord, where your actions actually affect the world around you,

What I got was a somewhat improved combat engine with more detailed graphics, and a game where my actions matter even less than in Warband.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

What I wanted was a better single-player version of Warband with a few more settlement and kingdom options, and hopefully at least some semblance of an actual economy, but most importantly, a game where if you demolish an army, it doesn't come right back a week later with even more high-level troops than the first time. I wanted a game with consequences for victory or defeat, for supporting or undermining a local economy, or for assisting or double-crossing a rival lord, where your actions actually affect the world around you,

What I got was a somewhat improved combat engine with more detailed graphics, and a game where my actions matter even less than in Warband.

Right! I played 25% of Warband in vanilla, was ready to move on to the next game because it felt "done". Then with things like Diplomacy mod my smoldering love was rekindled. I was excited to hear about all the new features like castle building, ambushes and generally "more to do" during development.

But my disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined when I played the barren game. I immediatly turned to mods - only to find them discontinued after the -th patch or hotfix.

And now some of the Great Modders have declared that they are no longer interested in "fixing the game". That does not spark joy.

 

[Maelstrom8]

Right! I played 25% of Warband in vanilla, was ready to move on to the next game because it felt "done". Then with things like Diplomacy mod my smoldering love was rekindled. I was excited to hear about all the new features like castle building, ambushes and generally "more to do" during development.

But my disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined when I played the barren game. I immediatly turned to mods - only to find them discontinued after the -th patch or hotfix.

And now some of the Great Modders have declared that they are no longer interested in "fixing the game". That does not spark joy.

As with you, I started out with native Warband as well. I actually enjoyed it, but I wanted more. I think one of the first mods I played with was either Floris or Native Expanded. Then later on I branched out into Age of Change, Blood and Steel, Pelopennesian War, Empire III.. my main ones later on were primarily Floris, Perisno, PoP and Full Invasion 2. So good.

What pissed me off however was their single module system. It's not a significant improvement, but I'm glad the smaller "touches" to the game were made much more streamlined for people like me in Bannerlord. But before I even got into mods, moreso making my own troops - admittedly I was uneducated for a few months, thinking the game was a blast without mods. Little did I know.. there was a whole different world waiting to be explored from inside the Nexus (or the TW mod boards). Ah yes, giving your troops boulders or stopping time.

The excitement is wearing off and slowly turning into disappointment, especially after hearing that last bit.

 

[Phantom425]

I appreciate that you've been playing for a while and lurking for a bit. Also I'll concede that maybe I - myself - was unfair in shutting you down and discounting your opinions so quickly.

Thank you, told you I'd be here longer then a day.

The thing you've got to understand about our experience, though, is that this forum has been repeatedly bombarded for the past year by aggressive, toxic people raging at any criticism of this game or the devs.

Almost always these people have no clue what they're talking about. Just today there's a guy derailing the modder open letter megathread with hypotheticals about how MAYBE TaleWorlds is hamstringing mod development for our own good because some mods might violate copyright law - something TW has never suggested because any admission of intentional mod hamstringing would provoke riots in this forum.

A couple weeks ago there was another newbie who flamed community members in a dozen threads after starting a ~400 hour Warband YouTube Let's Play a few WEEKS before. To be clear: this feat would only be possible if they did nothing but play Warband and eat and maybe sleep (I mean... meth is also a thing?). This individual proceeded to flame everyone about how much better Bannerlord was than Warband, despite not playing either for more than a month or so plus showing ignorance about basic features of either game. *I* even caught flak from other forum members for being harsh to this person, who then started to drop "troll" posts like doing nothing but gaming for a month - at the expense of all decency, sanity and personal hygiene - was all an elaborate troll job.

Some people are just pathologically fixated on this game being good or getting good - then react with violent rage at anyone who disturbs their fantasy.

Yeah, a lot of different people can and will be toxic. A lot of people who may agree with me will be, for lack of a better term, assholes to everyone on the forum who is giving a lot of good feedback. Ngl, after coming, my opinions on Bannerlord have changed a little. After seeing everything that has been suggested, things that I didn't even think about, I do want those things to be added into the game. I wouldn't have these opinions now if I didn't come to this forum. Whenever these people do crop up, yeah, the entire discussion will devolve, and I don't think they were out trying to get any proper talks so nothing will be gained from that whatsoever.

We are straight-up telling you that the devs have been ignoring and obfuscating and lying for a year. Politeness has not worked. By your suggestions to the contrary, you're calling us liars and/or idiots.

I, as said before, understand this position. My position has always been just wait for 1.6.0 to come around and see what actually happens to the internal values before jumping to any conclusions. I've never denied that they have issues with communication, they do, I've fully accepted that they do. So, I have never, or if I have, I am sorry, but, to my knowledge, I have never insinuated that you are all liars and/or idiots. I am simply suggesting wait until the 1.6.0 update to make your conclusions, and maybe go along with them saying to compile further issues that may be found.

If at any point TW decides to turn things around, I guarantee that forgiveness would follow virtually instantaneously. But that hasn't happened. I worry that it won't. And your posts aggressively trying to tone-police us are not going to be greeted with respect, because - by any sane definition - you are a white knight. Own it, brother.

I wouldn't really call what I've been doing overly aggressive. If anything, I've had a bit of restraint after being called whiteknight for the fiftieth time and just seeing people jump to conclusions relentlessly. Not saying that everyone is doing that, but I've seen enough of it.

And, for that last sentence, I'm not a white knight. I'm anything but a white knight. A white knight just defends TW, saying that there are no issues with modding in Ankara. I've said there are, acknowledged many different issues, and just want to work for a better Bannerlord.

So.

Own it, brother.

Never.

 

[bonerstorm]

The excitement is wearing off and slowly turning into disappointment, especially after hearing that last bit.

I just posted a round-up thread of the latest news if you're hungry for more blackpill.

At some point I think I'm going to compile master list of BLackpill posts across the years. If the one I just posted is useful to people, then I'll make it my magnum opus before going back into TW hibernation for another year... and booting up VC w/ Blood Eagle for the first time.

 

[Roy1012]

I just posted a round-up thread of the latest news if you're hungry for more blackpill.

At some point I think I'm going to compile master list of BLackpill posts across the years. If the one I just posted is useful to people, then I'll make it my magnum opus before going back into TW hibernation for another year... and booting up VC w/ Blood Eagle for the first time.

Please do. I would be happy to help. I doubt it would do anything effective, but at least we'll have 10 pages worth of links to angry customers.

 

[alino]

No, we are really not. There is no legal transaction that happened that makes a simple purchase like being an investor on a stock exchange, barring the very fundamental fact that even investors are not necessarily shareholders that have a vote on what a company must do to return your investment, particularly not if they only own 1/5000 000 the of a share of a company (do not know the game purchases now).

I find this comparison is kind of the problem. A purchase transaction is wholy different and we have no claim beyond (in the EU and elsewhere mandatory) 2 week refund, no questions asked.

All the rest now is an entirely voluntary PR thing and business wise the only concern is potential sales of expansions/DLC or new titles and that we may be more wary to buy another Taleworld game in EA state, but tbh I spent my 40 bucks back then under the premise "Oh, well, spent 40 bucks on other useless stuff before".

I just think people may consider being a bit more chill. Even if all the grievances are justified... what you do in life when met with disappointment is move on and do not write yourself into a frenzy like that. It's a game, not a hospital screwing up a surgery of your loved one.

I think you took me a little too seriously and technically. What I simply meant is that they can more or less afford to not care about the complaints because the money is safe in their pockets, which would not happen if their value was at risk. That's all.

For the rest I am more than relaxed, since I no longer play BL and have therefore happily moved on.

What I can't stand and make me lose my relaxation are your instrumental moralisms as a teacher. Hospitals and loved ones? What the **** do you want?

 

[TKnight]

Tbh i just want some co-op multiplayer modes (with a variety of maps) .
Co-op modes Like :

• Survive N ammount of waves
• Caputre N points
• Siege (players vs AI)
• Team deathmatch players vs AI (where there are clearly more AI for ballance)
• Captain mode - Players vs AI
• Team v Team. (no respawn) vs AI , (round win based)