What does the community want?

Which one of these best applies to you at the moment?

  • I play Bannerlord Multiplayer

  • I would play Bannerlord Multiplayer if we had dedicated servers.

  • I would play Bannerlord Multiplayer if we had multiplayer mods.

  • I am a mod developer and am waiting for MP mods support.

  • I am a mod developer and I need more SP modding support.

  • I would play Bannerlord singleplayer if it were expanded further.

  • I only play Bannerlord Singleplayer and am not interested in the Multiplayer experince


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I'm happy that other people enjoy the game. I wish I was one of them. What I'm not happy about is that they always come in here with the same 3 arguments for why we're stupid and bad for not liking the game that basically just amount to "stop complaining they're doing their best".
 
Unless I have missed something (and I may have), but people who simply voice their opinions about e.g liking something aren't usually responded to. It's when they make inflaming statements that are unsubstantiated or based on a complete lack of knowledge surrounding the environment in this forum and the culture of TaleWorlds management, that other people respond to them negatively. There are of course some exceptions, and they are usually dealt with by moderators.
My point here is to say that, generally speaking, people who post about something that is either somewhat in favor of TW or, not even defending, not entirely attacking are met with hostility. During my time of posting in the other thread, when I was newer to the forum even though my opinion have not changed much, I was repeatedly called a white knight and ignorant to the issues surround the game. This happened even though I have made it perfectly clear that I have a multitude of issues with the game, and I do not consider the game to be perfect whatsoever. When someone goes against, I guess a "hate train", in this forum, they will simply be dismissed as either a white knight or they just simply cannot understand the frustration of waiting however long for a game and for it to turn out like this. And, before it seems as if I cannot comprehend how someone can be frustrated at this wait, I can. I have, once again, stated that I understand being frustrated over how long the game came out. If I were in your position, which I am not as I picked up WB in about 2016-17, I would also be incredibly frustrated with the state of the game.
I took a quick read of your posts in that thread, and your general statement seems to be "We don't know precisely what is going on, and as such should wait until the patch before we make judgements" (correct me if I'm wrong).

TaleWorlds has stated on several occasions that moddability is extremely important to them(and it is and should be). The issue is that whatever pieces of the game have been tagged as "internal" makes those sections of code inaccessible or changeable to modders. The statement, and the action are at odds, as any part of the code that is inaccessible makes the game much more difficult to mod, regardless of what it is. And unless I may be wrong(my coding knowledge is quite poor), if they start making existing parts "internal", then that will break mods that have already altered that code, perhaps permanently breaking whole mods. For no real reason I might add.

Perhaps there should be an exclaimer somewhere, but telling people on this forum to be patient is more inflaming than any insult you can think of. The lies, PR speak, snails pace, and general state of affairs surrounding this game make people that have been waiting so long reasonably upset, and telling anyone to wait for anything at this point invites frustrated responses. I know I keep repeating this, but if you had been in and among the mess for as long as many of us, I would bet everything I own that you would be equally frustrated and on edge upon being told to be patient, even if that call of patience is reasonable.
That is a somewhat correct summary of my points, but not entirely. My general opinion is that while we do not know precisely what internal values will be added and removed, we know that the subject is somewhat being addressed and TW has stated that they would be open to further communication on whether or not this is a good direction after the patch comes out. Therefor, my position is that clearly the mod letter worked, as it got a response from TW, so wait for the patch to come around and the modding community should come together and state their opinion on what the patch did correctly and incorrectly.

As for the contradiction between the statement and action, there was a good post. I'll link, but also summarive the point that was made.
Link: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-conversion-mod-community.440886/post-9704534
The point boils down to the fact that the modding community is simply expecting too much from TW. More modable does not mean that everything will be. It simply means that there will be more freedom given to the modding community compared to that or Warband.
He also made the point about DLC. While I can assume many will scoff at that idea, but how else would TW continue to make revenue to continue to support the game. With each DLC release, it can be assumed that more and more thinks will be unlocked for modding as this was what happened with WB. Whenever a new DLC would be released, modders would gain access to more and more.

On final note for this response, in response to this final paragraph dedicated to me, if me telling people to be more patient is more inflaming then outright insulting them, that speaks more to this forum rather then my skills at trying to get my point across. And in terms of frustration, yes, I would be. One game that I hold near and dear to my heart is Arma 3, a game that is just as if not more buggy then Bannerlord, and it has been out for years. For that game, I rely almost entirely on mods to make sure that I can have the experience that I want, and the devs, Bohemia Interactive, have made no announcement for Arma 4 besides a comment in a CEO Q&A and leaks that were taken down. The leaks, mind you, were not positive. Arma 3 came out in 2013. I know what it is like to wait and be patient, and I also know what it is like to probably never get what you want. Also, to add salt to the injury, Tencent bought a "strategic minority investment" out of BI, so I know what it feels like to be annoyed at a developer. But do I lash out at anyone who does enjoy the game, or tell me to be patient? No.
TaleWorlds themselves, through both their actions and inactions, have cultivated this setting. Being calm, reasonable, patient, understanding, and not rocking the boat has achieved nothing meaningful, and we spent money months falling into that category. And so this forum will continue to get more and more frustrated, and more and more hostile towards TaleWorlds, and that frustration and hostility, which already exists to a reasonable extent elsewhere, will spread, and will continue to fester and grow until TaleWorlds management pull their heads from out of their ass, and start properly communicating with the community, and start making concessions, especially about multiplayer, since the Mount & Blade multiplayer community has been treated with little better than contempt for most of it's existence (there's a whole years-long saga about the multiplayer Warband community repeatedly getting snubbed and insulted, but my post is long enough already). Perhaps it isn't reasonable as gesha said. But at some point, conditions deteriorate that the state of affairs becomes totally unreasonable, and as a result the only response that can be made is one that could be is in and of itself "unreasonable". < This is where we are at, and a huge swathe of the community believes it. And this needs to be constantly repeated: TaleWorlds can make this end whenever they want, they hold all the power. They choose not to.
This final paragraph is correct. The current state of affairs of this forum would not be possible without the lack of communication from TW, that is undeniable. However, it is impossible to blame them entirely for this state. TW is not forcing people to act the way that they are. If people want to be more angry, that is understandable, however they don't have to be. There are more productive ways of getting a response from TW. Just look at the letter, when the community comes together and clearly outlines the problems that they have, they do have weight behind those words.

So for what I believe in what TW should do, I guess most of the points would apply to me. I think that all of these aspects do need more support, however I do enjoy the current state of the game as is.
 
Telling angry people to "just calm down" has never worked in the history of humanity and says nothing special about this forum.
 
and you should apologise.
Nope. I stand by my statement you are or were posting like an obnoxious person.

And I said I could be wrong about Phantom but I have seen it done before. It's very easy to make another account and start posting.

+1 @Sundeki and @MadVader for their posts.

OP just doesn't understand. Maybe time will show him.

We have all tried really hard to work with Taleworlds, It's just Taleworlds doesn't seem to want to provide what the collective community wants.

The biggest travesty is the "dumbing down" of features and controls. And delivering no requested features that were at least present in Warband.
Bannerlord feels like a combat simulator alone without any meaningful RPG features beyond the skill tree. Also it's a combat simulator that does not like you to manually control your troops by doing anything other than hit charge.

If you like to manually adjust formations, control when archers fire, even change direction to face oncoming threats from a respawning enemy (as enemies frequently spawn from a side of the map when enough numbers die and need to be replaced) good luck.
As the devs has responded in the past and make it sound like you should not be wanting to manually control because the AI will just do it for you.
If you manually control them it becomes "problematic" for their *excellent* AI.
This became very apparent when a thread suggested if we can bring back the old "0" hotkey for selection surrounding troops to the player and was shut down with the above response.
About how they saw no need for any reason why a player would want to control small portions of troops individually. Even after many of us provided examples of why we would indeed want to.

Sieges don't work, troops get stuck on the ladders or refuse to use more than one ladder on a 3 ladder siege tower.
They go to the top and die like you are watching lemmings in those old video games going down to their deaths one by one, apart from this is uphill.

Multiplayer has been neglected ^ read the above posts no need to repeat.

Many many more issues.

I personally stopped playing when they changed the hotkeys and when they finally spoke about WHY they changed them and if they planned to change them back the answer was not satisfactory to me personally.
They spoke about why they made the changes without discussing the shortfalls or the problems with using toggle on face direction etc.

Also after reading many other people's threads I began to notice the trend of "too complicated" or "that is not in our vision" (to things that were promoted in dev posts in the months/year before early access or E3 presentations).
And finally the lack of communication on what has gone wrong, taking none of the blame and holding their hands up. Or even the lack despite being asked over and over respectfully to provide any sort of meaningful roadmap beyond the very basics of bug fixes they plan to do and minor changes to the overall game simulation.

The only major features they have delivered in my memory is rebellions and prison breaks, and the rebellions has received negative feedback as many of the town simulations prosperity does not work currently. So I assume that one may get fixed over EA.
Prison breaks however are really quite poor imo, and should look back at Warbands version for inspiration.

Anyway I fully intend this to be my final post in this thread also. This post has indeed peaked. As by now myself and many others have tried to paint a picture to the OP on what they were missing. And the current feeling of the forum base.
And 10 pages of repeating the same cycle in circles is enough I would have thought.
 
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What my complaint is and the 'veteran fans' seem to be missing is:
Every time a chatter says that they somewhat are content with the state of the game or its development. Their entire point is completely disregarded and they are made fun of. Not to forget the 1 page essays of why actually you should be mad, you silly simpleton. Not a healthy look. I personally feel like I am being dragged down a rabbit hole of pathological discontent. If I was the OP and had an evil agenda, I would have added the options:
"I am blaming TW for my unrealistic expectations."
"I just wanna be mad because I will never relive the Warband nostalgia."
"I want to feel as though the devs are listening to me although I don't really care about the result"

Though I am sure that none of those apply to anyone in the thread. Lets try to prove the outside observer wrong.
Why are only angry veterans allowed on this forum?
 
The one example that was cited of this phenomenon was itself full of flaming and name-calling, just hidden badly in a "hee-hee :3" tone.
 
What my complaint is and the 'veteran fans' seem to be missing is:
Every time a chatter says that they somewhat are content with the state of the game or its development. Their entire point is completely disregarded and they are made fun of. Not to forget the 1 page essays of why actually you should be mad, you silly simpleton.
@Gandamula, AFAIK is a perfect counter-example of this type of behavior. He enjoys playing the game, and I do not know a soul on this forum who has negatively responded to his posts about him liking the game (He can correct me if I'm wrong). There needs to be a line drawn. When people come to the forums demanding 'veteran fans' to stop hating TW and simply think like them, it certainly causes frustration. I was one of those ignorant people who did that during Beta.

You yourself literally said on Page 1:
I like both SP and MP, but recently been playing mostly MP.
Bannerlord combat is 100x better than Warband, however there are too little types of gamemodes.
Has anyone told you to bugger off, or how dare you have an opinion on the combat? Genuine question, because I skimmed the thread again, and I do not see a single mention to that comment.

At the end of the day, I think you need to realize that it seems like everyone except for white knights (not you) wants improvements to the game.
 
What my complaint is and the 'veteran fans' seem to be missing is:
Every time a chatter says that they somewhat are content with the state of the game or its development. Their entire point is completely disregarded and they are made fun of. Not to forget the 1 page essays of why actually you someone should be mad, you silly simpleton. Not a healthy look. I personally feel like I am being dragged down a rabbit hole of pathological discontent. If I was the OP and had an evil agenda, I would have added the options:
"I am blaming TW for my unrealistic expectations."
"I just wanna be mad because I will never relive the Warband nostalgia."
"I want to feel as though the devs are listening to me although I don't really care about the result"

Though I am sure that none of those apply to anyone in the thread. Lets try to prove the outside observer wrong.
Why are only angry veterans allowed on this forum?
Beep Beep Beep. Unfortunately the word "yo*" has been said in the above post. This incident will be recorded so that it can be further studied.
 
What my complaint is and the 'veteran fans' seem to be missing is:
Every time a chatter says that they somewhat are content with the state of the game or its development. Their entire point is completely disregarded and they are made fun of. Not to forget the 1 page essays of why actually you should be mad, you silly simpleton. Not a healthy look. I personally feel like I am being dragged down a rabbit hole of pathological discontent. If I was the OP and had an evil agenda, I would have added the options:
"I am blaming TW for my unrealistic expectations."
"I just wanna be mad because I will never relive the Warband nostalgia."
"I want to feel as though the devs are listening to me although I don't really care about the result"

Though I am sure that none of those apply to anyone in the thread. Lets try to prove the outside observer wrong.
Why are only angry veterans allowed on this forum?
I talk about the parts of the game I enjoy frequently and don't experience this. I mean you're welcome to try, but I probably know a lot more about the parts of the game I'm describing and I will defend my opinion, but they can try. Yeah there's that one guy that will sometimes pop up and jab at me over the "hurling parents CPS" fiasco of 2020, but it's just that one guy.

I don't know what you read here, but I answer new people's questions and speculations all the time and have all year. Forum's full of people who are new or old but have few posts, who are treated perfectly.

I asked you to make a topic about things you enjoy and you turned it into a "I'm rubber you're glue" attempt.
Makes me think you don't have much else to say after all and you're just arguing to amusing yourself. Maybe you're on a discord or IRC laughing it up with buds and brain storming your posts. ?

BTW
I cant do it because I will get jumped by doomer forum-rats. Literally, you're the one shushing me.
I looked to make sure: you only have 2 post outside of this thread and I didn't say anything to you about them at all. What do you mean I am literally shushing you form making positive topics and post about things you like in the game? I thought about questioning why you would let the AI finish it's siege camp to have defensive siege at all, but nah I let it go. That's cool, some people like to fight in the defensive siege.
 
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Hello fellow raiders!

I've been following the discussion on some parts of the forum and Youtube and it seems to me there is a misalignment of the direction TW is going and what the community, at least the majority of it on the forums, wants. So, I propose we have a mature discussion about it, leaving all the hostility, frustrations and "TW DOESNT CARE ABOUT US" at the door.

Having said that let's not forget that TW delivered an insane game, I mean c'mon guys what other game supports 1000 NPC third person battles with such stunning visuals? In a lot of aspects it is a huge step forward from warband and I think that a lot people fail to give TW enough credit for that.
If the op would not have included this red part especially yellow part, all of this 10 pages would have been different @mrBmbastic
You can ask why of course. Just read two op of the threads I put link below and you will understand why:

As others stated, if someone comes here and state that they enjoy the game, with the exception of few people maybe, no one will treat him/her badly. But someone, all of a sudden, comes here and says the game is enjoyable and asks why does everyone has to be so toxic then people here do have to say something about it.

For myself, I enjoy the game, trading and battlefields with Realistic Battle Mod, particularly. Other than that, this game is a mess, imo.
 
I've already put on my raincoat because it's going to be a bumpy ride until the end of the EA, but I won't let go of the helm or jump off the boat because I really want to see what's hidden behind that horizon and check if this trip was worth it.

giphy.gif


Hope is a waking dream
Aristotle
Yes a 3 hour cruise, and we remember how that turned out. Am I sensing deju vu?

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For myself, I enjoy the game, trading and battlefields with Realistic Battle Mod, particularly. Other than that, this game is a mess, imo.
Trading was honestly my favorite way to play right after release. I actually had a lot of fun with the game playing an Aserai trader. Now there are more powerful trading perks that in theory allow you to play the game as a pure trader... However in practice trading level so slow that it turns into a mindless grind which is just not fun.

At least it did last time I played, I know that they changed a few things with leveling in one of the last patches so maybe it's no longer quite that bad?
 
Well, that is just your point of view. Look at the poll on the top 50% of people say they play only SP and don't care about the MP.
I don't think the "general consensus" is as general as you see it. If anyone is too optimistic, that is you here. Thinking that SP only players really care about the MP aspect is what is overly optimistic. Maybe it's an issue that you are failing to see, and by failing to see that, you fail to understand half of the community. That's a BIG miss.
With all due respect, the miss on this is yours. I didn't say that SP people deeply care about the MP or vice versa. I said that they understand that others value it highly and that it should be improved regardless of what they themselves want in the game. I didn't vote for every option, but that does not mean that I do not think those other options important. There is no massive divide in community wishes. This simply does not exist on the level that you claim. "What best applies to you" does not imply that the voters could not care less what happens with the other departments they didn't vote on. It's what applies to the personal individual. For example, most sensible people do not frame their entire political beliefs on purely what would only benefit them over others. Most frame them on what they view as what would improve the general welfare. You framed the poll in a very individually personal sense, implying that these numbers prove that "half of the people don't care at all what happens to the other half's preference" is drawing a wholly imperfect conclusion based purely on shaky numbers asking about personal taste.
Yes a 3 hour cruise, and we remember how that turned out. Am I sensing deju vu?

6a00d8341c2ca253ef01bb099fbccc970d-800wi
I bet Gilligan has actually been in charge of this project this entire time. That would explain a lot, actually.
 
For example, most sensible people do not frame their entire political beliefs on purely what would only benefit them over others. Most frame them on what they view as what would improve the general welfare.
You'd be surprised.
 
My point here is to say that, generally speaking, people who post about something that is either somewhat in favor of TW or, not even defending, not entirely attacking are met with hostility. During my time of posting in the other thread, when I was newer to the forum even though my opinion have not changed much, I was repeatedly called a white knight and ignorant to the issues surround the game. This happened even though I have made it perfectly clear that I have a multitude of issues with the game, and I do not consider the game to be perfect whatsoever. When someone goes against, I guess a "hate train", in this forum, they will simply be dismissed as either a white knight or they just simply cannot understand the frustration of waiting however long for a game and for it to turn out like this
Hey dude, I was just reading your first post on the other thread. The first initial response was this:
I appreciate your being chill about your confusion.
From my POV, I would in no universe consider this a hostile response. To then generalize that people on the fence about their attitude towards TW are immediately shut down is an insult to many people on these forums. We are human beings, we know who we are upset at, and it is not the players who genuinely enjoy BL.

This in particular:
During my time of posting in the other thread, when I was newer to the forum even though my opinion have not changed much, I was repeatedly called a white knight and ignorant to the issues surround the game. This happened even though I have made it perfectly clear that I have a multitude of issues with the game, and I do not consider the game to be perfect whatsoever.
These two bolded things do not correlate to each other. You were ignorant, that is simply a fact (not an insult!). Your post quite literally articulated this point:

Where my confusion is why is there such a backlash to this? Is it possible to wait for the update to roll around and then give TW more feedback on it? The game is still clearly in EA, so things are a bit difficult at the time. I don't want to seem as if I am pandering to either side, I am just somewhat confused as to the somewhat harsh reactions to the news, such as Bloc no longer even modding for the game.
People then began informing you how this practice is commonplace, however YOU then said:
I think everyone can completely agree with this, but the amount of people who are just being toxic about the game are not going to help efferts to make the game more profitable. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, who would TW rather cater to, people on reddit who praise the game or people here who levy insults, warranted or not.
In this, you essentially dub everyone in that thread "toxic", whether or not you really meant it like that. In that context, it can very much be implied that was your intention. You then followed that with this:

I was never debating about the things people are posting, I was saying that people are going about wanting change the wrong way. If I am being quite frank, a good opportunity was missed here, and this forum is going to go back to being the regular piss and vinegar that it is.
Reading back, I will tell you right now, you do not know the way TW operates with the community. If you did, you would not say this. But this was said nonetheless, calling the forum 'piss vinegar' and telling people they are taking a wrong approach. I really cannot comprehend how you then have the audacity to say:
My point here is to say that, generally speaking, people who post about something that is either somewhat in favor of TW or, not even defending, not entirely attacking are met with hostility.
If you believe I missed any key details, do say as I have read in full every reply (to and received) up to that last one. Essentially, what people were trying to convey was that this "wait and see" mindset has occurred more times than just the modding debacle. You have only experienced the modding debacle, which is why I assume you have good faith in TW in delivering in their communications. I'm not saying the community is invulnerable from their shares of disrespect, but as a million people have told you, we already had a phase of politeness and promises of soonTM, that did not work.

Anyway, I'm finished my research assignment :razz:. To give you a taste of what "the next patch" and "soon" might be:
  • In-game Voice Chat is in the final testing stage and will be going live very soon.
  • Duel Mode is in the final polishing stage and will be going live very soon.
  • Observer Mode is in the final testing stage and will be going live very soon.
Feb 12, 2021.
 
At least it did last time I played, I know that they changed a few things with leveling in one of the last patches so maybe it's no longer quite that bad?
I don't purely play as a merchant, I use it in early-mid game to grow economically but Artisan Community and Great Investor perks are a must have for me. Artisan Community give 1 renown per day for each profitable shop you own and Great Investor is doing the same thing for caravan. Either of this, preferably Artisan Community, is really good for reaching Clan 6 tier. I did not play much after TW removed leveling limit but as far as I can tell the difference is noticeable so with less grinding, you can level up trading much more easily.
 
I don't purely play as a merchant, I use it in early-mid game to grow economically but Artisan Community and Great Investor perks are a must have for me. Artisan Community give 1 renown per day for each profitable shop you own and Great Investor is doing the same thing for caravan. Either of this, preferably Artisan Community, is really good for reaching Clan 6 tier. I did not play much after TW removed leveling limit but as far as I can tell the difference is noticeable so with less grinding, you can level up trading much more easily.
I see, thank you. So this is the real purpose of shops now, not to make money but to farm renown ?. I would love to be able to say that this is enough to make me want to reinstall the game, but given that my main gripe with the game is related to the combat and they don't seem to even want to acknowledge that there is something wrong with that, that probably won't happen for a while...
 
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