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What Do You Play for in Bannerlord? What Keeps you Going?
- 主题发起人 stevepine
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As of the new announcement, I've uninstalled and do not intend to come back. The only way they convince me to come back now is if there's a post release megalodon patch that fixes everything....or at least the AI can climb a ladder. Which seems absurd that I would pitch me returning on what is comically an easy sounding thing to fix but strangely seems impossible.
Warband and Kenshi for life, it appears.
Warband and Kenshi for life, it appears.
you have my respect, you badge 2 of the best mods for Warband in your sig! A man of refined tastes! Gonna have to look up the Jerusalem II, never heard of it!
As for what you said, well, I'm sort of "hoping" that they have some secret alpha build they've been working on for real that holds all the basics they need to fix and add before release, but the reality's that it seems highly unlikely. One of these days Terco just reminded me of how hard we tried to bring as much as we could as a community (for free eh?) to make BL into the game we deserve (and that would ultimately make TW rich), we have probably posted the equivalent of a bible with suggestions, useful feedback and information, and the result was that we were totally ignored, since, what, 2014/2015?
If BL gets released too close to what it is now, it'll be a flop, it'll sell but the novelty will wear off quite fast and the game'll die (they'll be lucky if it doesn't become yet another PR catastrophe in the process), MostBlunted thinks they might pull some No Mans Sky, but I'm not sure Armageddon's as dedicated as Sean Murray, after all they'd be releasing it as a "rushed" product with over 10 years of development, multiple delays and without ANY PUBLISHER pressuring them. So it's all on him tbh.
I don't really play it. I frankly am pissed off with the state of Bannerlord and the state of its modding in that nothing gives me the same control as I have in Warband when it comes to accessibility for adjusting item values with morgh's in warband, or MCM values to tweak damage to my heart's delight in warband. Meanwhile in Bannerlord I am at the mercy of the absolute, godawful, piece of ****, rage inducing vanilla combat which is ahistorical, unrealistic, and even more arcadey than native warband at its worst, because for some reason, somebody at Talesworld decided velocity behind melee weapons wasn't needed so it's all flat for damage calculation, along with making everything have such a piss poor armor value that the only thing a hauberk does is make a 1-hit-kill turn into a 2-hit-kill because that's totally how maille works.
I'm specifically trawling this forum at this point as I've been playing bannerlord 1.72 with Realistic Battle Mod for the past week once again, but even with the tweaks I've done to their damage stats I still find it comprehensively unrealistic, silly, and annoying in a way that just sticks as I can't make armor perform like how warband enables, where a high enough rating just stops damage outright and you need a lot of oomph to get through, such as a couched lance, a swing with extreme momentum, etc. Because as good as it is, RBM's blunt damage allows you to tap a guy with no movement, no momentum, notta and still deal persistent blunt damage to chip down their health quickly and take out a fully armored Cataphract with just 6 or 7 pokes from a spear or pike on foot. I don't meant to talk bad of Raptor at all, his work is a godsend amongst the sorry state of Bannerlord, but god I wish there was some way to just have warband style control of damage values. Where the hell are my MCM values in module files?
See this? This is good game design and accessibility that allows anyone to rapidly shift the performance of their game's combat with just a .txt file allowing editing on the fly. And it's not impossible for the devs to still do this with C+ coding, I *can't* code, but as a multitude of modders have demonstrated including Raptor himself, you can stick .xml's into mydocuments or the game files itself for direct control. And I've just about had it with silly arcade damage with cleave through multiple people over something aspiring for a faint degree of realism like Warband, which can be cranked up to the next level if you put some love into the animations and damage values in Warband.
I'm specifically trawling this forum at this point as I've been playing bannerlord 1.72 with Realistic Battle Mod for the past week once again, but even with the tweaks I've done to their damage stats I still find it comprehensively unrealistic, silly, and annoying in a way that just sticks as I can't make armor perform like how warband enables, where a high enough rating just stops damage outright and you need a lot of oomph to get through, such as a couched lance, a swing with extreme momentum, etc. Because as good as it is, RBM's blunt damage allows you to tap a guy with no movement, no momentum, notta and still deal persistent blunt damage to chip down their health quickly and take out a fully armored Cataphract with just 6 or 7 pokes from a spear or pike on foot. I don't meant to talk bad of Raptor at all, his work is a godsend amongst the sorry state of Bannerlord, but god I wish there was some way to just have warband style control of damage values. Where the hell are my MCM values in module files?
See this? This is good game design and accessibility that allows anyone to rapidly shift the performance of their game's combat with just a .txt file allowing editing on the fly. And it's not impossible for the devs to still do this with C+ coding, I *can't* code, but as a multitude of modders have demonstrated including Raptor himself, you can stick .xml's into mydocuments or the game files itself for direct control. And I've just about had it with silly arcade damage with cleave through multiple people over something aspiring for a faint degree of realism like Warband, which can be cranked up to the next level if you put some love into the animations and damage values in Warband.
I love PoP to pieces. I have like 400 hours on GOG in that one alone, and then another 120hrs of it on Steam. It's quite frankly one of the best mods of anything I have ever encountered. Anno Domini is also superb, but I think In The Name of Jerusalem (Warband, original mod) is just a little better. They're making a new one for Bannerlord, the one in my sig, and it looks absolutely beautiful! If you're interested to know of more, there's so many new mods coming for Bannerlord that look stunning. There's Kingdoms of Arda that is definitely 100% committed to giving people a great Lord of the Rings experience; there's Bretwalda, which is exactly what you think it is and will ship with fully functional naval combat; and then finally, one of the top three I'm really excited for, Project Korea! The work they are doing is mind blowing!
I'm really hoping though that Prophesy of Pendor takes the leap at Bannerlord too! I just know that if they put their hand into the mix, they would bring that fire that Bannerlord mods are really missing, maybe even force Taleworld devs to step up by bringing in thousands of new customers that would continue to point out their glaring issues. lol
I also don't think they will pull a No Man's Sky. The look into the development, all of the missing features, the refusal to listen to us etc etc paints a rather nasty image of Taleworlds. NMS and Sean listens and enjoys engaging with his fans and customers, which you see all of the time. You don't see that, whatsoever, with Taleworlds. I think they're pushing it to console/full release so they can spend 1 more year on it and then call it quits, and no one will get to complain because hey, "it's now released!".
I'll make sure to check it!I love PoP to pieces. I have like 400 hours on GOG in that one alone, and then another 120hrs of it on Steam. It's quite frankly one of the best mods of anything I have ever encountered. Anno Domini is also superb, but I think In The Name of Jerusalem (Warband, original mod) is just a little better. They're making a new one for Bannerlord, the one in my sig, and it looks absolutely beautiful! If you're interested to know of more, there's so many new mods coming for Bannerlord that look stunning. There's Kingdoms of Arda that is definitely 100% committed to giving people a great Lord of the Rings experience; there's Bretwalda, which is exactly what you think it is and will ship with fully functional naval combat; and then finally, one of the top three I'm really excited for, Project Korea! The work they are doing is mind blowing!
I'm really hoping though that Prophesy of Pendor takes the leap at Bannerlord too! I just know that if they put their hand into the mix, they would bring that fire that Bannerlord mods are really missing, maybe even force Taleworld devs to step up by bringing in thousands of new customers that would continue to point out their glaring issues. lol
I also don't think they will pull a No Man's Sky. The look into the development, all of the missing features, the refusal to listen to us etc etc paints a rather nasty image of Taleworlds. NMS and Sean listens and enjoys engaging with his fans and customers, which you see all of the time. You don't see that, whatsoever, with Taleworlds. I think they're pushing it to console/full release so they can spend 1 more year on it and then call it quits, and no one will get to complain because hey, "it's now released!".
as for your last quoted statement:
Bluko88
Sergeant
Eh I don't play anymore
I kind of want to, but the game in it's current inception is just bad. I can't fool myself into thinking this game is going to get good anymore.
Biggest problems for me are:
- Totally lifeless NPCs that don't react to anything, despite having a Trait system that would make it rather simple to have reactions/events
- i.e. If I'm playing a noble "good guy" hiring a murderous thug as a companion shouldn't really work
- Terrible main quest, most side quests in AAA games have more thought and depth to them
- A lot of balance issues like Medicine being terrible to level, some Troop units are totally OP, others plain trash
- Very poor control over Parties and Kingdoms
- Lousy Party Screen, can't create custom formations anymore
Honestly find something like CK3 far more enjoyable these days. That game has it's shortcomings, but the game works and you can tell there was actual effort put into it (certainly a lot of research). And most importantly I feel invested playing CK3 - I do care about my heirs, realm, etc. Why do I care if Tayla the Spice Merchant dies to some Looters in Bannerlord when another indentical NPC will just spawn in to replace them? I wouldn't rag on Taleworlds if they were just a small 10-20 man Indie Team, but they've got 3x that staff at least from what I know.
The lack of progress this game has made over the past two years is just atrocious. As far as I can tell only individuals actually putting in any effort to the game's development are the scene/level designers. It's a shame all these unique battle maps, villages, towns, and castles are part of a game that doesn't utilize them for anything besides battles - if that.
The next patch (if there is one) is going to have to be truly spectacular to even make me reconsider.
I was in that fooling stage myself, for some time. I kept thinking the next big update would bring the content, would fix the issues, would balance the game. I think I truly saw the fruitlessness of that by 1.5.x. Everything people were asking about, or pointing out, repeatedly returning as an issue. Ignored on every platform...
Even now, with he backlash over the announcement, we get nothing. The way Taleworlds conducts itself is really bad.
Even now, with he backlash over the announcement, we get nothing. The way Taleworlds conducts itself is really bad.
Jesus man thanks you just reminded me that I left my dog out back 10 years ago ..! Better go check on eem
I left since its more lackluster than Warband with more problems tech wise. Plus right now with no real mod support its a dead in the water project that I regret wasting $50 on.
I don't really play it. I frankly am pissed off with the state of Bannerlord and the state of its modding in that nothing gives me the same control as I have in Warband when it comes to accessibility for adjusting item values with morgh's in warband, or MCM values to tweak damage to my heart's delight in warband. Meanwhile in Bannerlord I am at the mercy of the absolute, godawful, piece of ****, rage inducing vanilla combat which is ahistorical, unrealistic, and even more arcadey than native warband at its worst, because for some reason, somebody at Talesworld decided velocity behind melee weapons wasn't needed so it's all flat for damage calculation, along with making everything have such a piss poor armor value that the only thing a hauberk does is make a 1-hit-kill turn into a 2-hit-kill because that's totally how maille works.
I'm specifically trawling this forum at this point as I've been playing bannerlord 1.72 with Realistic Battle Mod for the past week once again, but even with the tweaks I've done to their damage stats I still find it comprehensively unrealistic, silly, and annoying in a way that just sticks as I can't make armor perform like how warband enables, where a high enough rating just stops damage outright and you need a lot of oomph to get through, such as a couched lance, a swing with extreme momentum, etc. Because as good as it is, RBM's blunt damage allows you to tap a guy with no movement, no momentum, notta and still deal persistent blunt damage to chip down their health quickly and take out a fully armored Cataphract with just 6 or 7 pokes from a spear or pike on foot. I don't meant to talk bad of Raptor at all, his work is a godsend amongst the sorry state of Bannerlord, but god I wish there was some way to just have warband style control of damage values. Where the hell are my MCM values in module files?
See this? This is good game design and accessibility that allows anyone to rapidly shift the performance of their game's combat with just a .txt file allowing editing on the fly. And it's not impossible for the devs to still do this with C+ coding, I *can't* code, but as a multitude of modders have demonstrated including Raptor himself, you can stick .xml's into mydocuments or the game files itself for direct control. And I've just about had it with silly arcade damage with cleave through multiple people over something aspiring for a faint degree of realism like Warband, which can be cranked up to the next level if you put some love into the animations and damage values in Warband.
I'm a bit baffled that you find Warband combat and damage "realistic", but to each his/her own. Does speed really play no role in BL? I have different experiences but maybe I'm tricking myself. If you are still on 1.7.2, did you try this mod to give you at least a bit control about BL damage?:
Modifiable Armor modifiers
This mod makes it possible to change the effectivness of armor on the three base damage types.Simply open the JSON file and make armor as strong or weak as you think it should be.
www.nexusmods.com
I prefer it greatly to RBM combat module (blunt for example is blocked for about 50% in my settings), sadly not updated to 1.8.0.
To say something to the topic:
I'm playing because there are some interesting and fun moments, despite the often brain dead AI. I never expected a deep medieval simulation from BL and was already bored by Warband late game, so I avoid it here too. By and large I'm wasting more time to mod the units to my pleasure using several mods than actually playing intensively, I fear. And I'm trying this and that. Currently I'm testing RBM combat module in 1.8.0 and tinkered the troops trees for this setting.
I've used that, it also doesn't allow you to fully invalidate damage types unless you were to also completely overhaul armor types and increase armor ratings, or nerf every single weapon damage into the ground. In warband meanwhile if you adjust damage types for cut for soak and reduction to say, 1.4, it will often result in good armors completely stopping all damage from cutting weapons short of a 50c axe with strong velocity. In Bannerlord I have never found any means or mods to achieve similar results outside of the Drastic Battle Mod, which completely overhauled everything and allowed you to also key how much damage was done depending on armor composition (textile, leather, mail, and plate are all differentiated), depending on the body part, and the ability to manually increase all armor values across the board. Unfortunately he cut all of such features from his mod and rendered it pointless to use.I'm a bit baffled that you find Warband combat and damage "realistic", but to each his/her own. Does speed really play no role in BL? I have different experiences but maybe I'm tricking myself. If you are still on 1.7.2, did you try this mod to give you at least a bit control about BL damage?:
Modifiable Armor modifiers
This mod makes it possible to change the effectivness of armor on the three base damage types.Simply open the JSON file and make armor as strong or weak as you think it should be.
I prefer it greatly to RBM combat module (blunt for example is blocked for about 50% in my settings), sadly not updated to 1.8.0.
To say something to the topic:
I'm playing because there are some interesting and fun moments, despite the often brain dead AI. I never expected a deep medieval simulation from BL and was already bored by Warband late game, so I avoid it here too. By and large I'm wasting more time to mod the units to my pleasure using several mods than actually playing intensively, I fear. And I'm trying this and that. Currently I'm testing RBM combat module in 1.8.0 and tinkered the troops trees for this setting.
Native warband damage values are certainly not realistic, but it's relatively easy to tweak things to a realistic point where plate especially, or mail for that matter, stops all cutting damage coming at it, and unlike bannerlord Warband does not seem to have this asinine, persistent feature of blunt damage coming through blows.It's also my issue with RBM as while it goes to a point that Modifiable Armor Values doesn't seem capable, it still has blunt damage coming through regardless of how high your armor value is because of "blunt trauma".
Yeah like others said theres a real small part of me that thinks the Devs are gonna pull a rabbit out of a house on that release date "Sike Yall! Heres the REAL game we just gave you that really old build to keep you busy. In this exclusive PC build all Lords have real personalities that play out both in the campaign world AND the battlefield. A deep, deep diplomacy game in which factions are constantly plotting planning new ways to dominate and every action you the player do will see a real in-game reaction to it. Nothing is arbitrary here and the stakes are really really high. The End game is filled with all sorts of surprises and unique challenges that will engage you till the very End."
You have high expectations, I can understand, but in a game with unrealistic conditions on all fronts it's too much to expect a realistic armor behavior. Realistic in the sense that you take isolated tests (ofter of the strongest parts of the armor) and see it as proof of proof armor. The game f.e. does not simulate disadvantages of armor (except weight), it does not know gaps in the armor, and in reality there is no hp to chip down while being fully functional before it reaches zero. I recently saw a source cited about a guy proud of the aketons made by him, testing them bravely by stabbing himself in the chest with a dagger, receiving a small wound (allegedly under 2 cm deep) and dying shortly thereafter. In BL it would have taken away perhaps 2 hp from our hero.
In my opinion there is also no plate armor in the game in the sense of wearing carbonized hardened steel. Armor before the later 14th c. AD was seldomly hardened; Calradia is fantasy but it seems to loosely resemble our 11th century. It has already a huge amount of too much armor on the units and cannot make armor invincible by fantasising plate armor. Helmets come closest to plate, but most helmets should not stop 100% cut damage because they have open faces. Only seldomly in warfare closed helmets were used because they diminish combat abilities a lot, which is not simulated in the game. And if a closed helmet has a mail face protection, blunt damage is justified.
So we needed a stong damage random factor which many video game players don't like, or an unrealistic "some damage goes through" mechanic. With Modifiable Armor Modifier I had a reduction of 70 cut damage by 60 armor to 3.5 damage. I could live with it, the damage was perhaps too low but I wanted to battle the glaive people.
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lol
Armor weight's meaningless to anybody trained. In fact, it weights less than a US military gear they carry on foot at all times. I hate when ppl want to start a "realism" debate without knowing anything about real data and real facts. Armor limitations are much less noticeable or "obvious" to laymen. They'll hinder your sight depending on the helmet, they'll limit your ability of "fine-movement" (like a surgeon operating an scalpel, or sewing an artery), but you can do almost anything wearing it no problem at all... You can roll, jump, sprint. The last and more obvious one's how it has the potential to tire you out much faster than if you weren't wearing any armor, but than again it depends on training, familirarity and how much armor we're talking.
Late medieval armor used by archers, for instance, was like wearing a heavy coat, absolutely zero effect, they were plate brigandines most of the time and you can literally wear that day-to-day and you'd not notice any difference (unless you're a coach potato).
Lastly, the worst factor was breathing with full helmets, but I only see full helmets on Vlandian culture and a single one for the Khuzaits in-game, the helmets with mail wouldn't affect your breathing, although I'd wager you'd sense the smell of metal quite often.
"In my opinion there is also no plate armor in the game in the sense of wearing carbonized hardened steel. Armor before the later 14th c. AD was seldomly hardened" objectively odd opinion, they'd harden steel, but with much less frequency and it was much more expensive. But that same logic applies to weapons, so it doesn't change because we're lowering the standards on both sides. You won't be able to go through using low-quality steel for piercing on a low-quality steel plate, much like hardened can't go through hardened. It may puncture, but it'd be caught in-between the layers of gambeson or other thick layered cloth and you'd not be injured, or if injured, only a scratch, literally.
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WB had momentum reads and speed calc to determine dmg (meaning you could potentially tune the game to simulate real armor effects where without a lot of momentum, some weapons wouldn't do ****)I'm a bit baffled that you find Warband combat and damage "realistic", but to each his/her own. Does speed really play no role in BL? I have different experiences but maybe I'm tricking myself. If you are still on 1.7.2, did you try this mod to give you at least a bit control about BL damage?:
Modifiable Armor modifiers
This mod makes it possible to change the effectivness of armor on the three base damage types.Simply open the JSON file and make armor as strong or weak as you think it should be.
I prefer it greatly to RBM combat module (blunt for example is blocked for about 50% in my settings), sadly not updated to 1.8.0.
To say something to the topic:
I'm playing because there are some interesting and fun moments, despite the often brain dead AI. I never expected a deep medieval simulation from BL and was already bored by Warband late game, so I avoid it here too. By and large I'm wasting more time to mod the units to my pleasure using several mods than actually playing intensively, I fear. And I'm trying this and that. Currently I'm testing RBM combat module in 1.8.0 and tinkered the troops trees for this setting.
BL has flat dmg calc and than it adds extra dmg from momentum (so no speed calc for dmg) and IF it's within certain conditions - makes impossible to simulate realistic armor and there's no way to fine tune it. It also allows players to hit for full dmg in MP even if they miss the attack. Makes for an exceptionally frustrating experience for MP veterans (again, I'm not one of those, I barely even touched WB MP, but I'm rather everybody who built this company by buying their **** was made happy with BL, not the other way around)
buhurt practitioner here, can confirm statements made here regarding physical abilities and general hindrance regarding wearing XIV/XVth century plate armor.
Main problem regarding "realistic" combat with this kind of armor is that it makes you practically impervious to random hits in melee blob situations that BL core system simulate. If you really wanted to kill a dude fully equipped (plate + gambison underneath with sometimes mail to cover gaps), you had to knock him off his feet (grabbing or really really heavy blow) or get behind him and finish him off commando style with a dagger through the "softer" gaps. I have a hard time imagining bannerlord simulating this. I can only visualize some kind of stamina system affected by the equipment load and a visor up or down (like in the war of the roses game for you people of culture) to alter the vision in order to introduce more "realistic" features to the game. I dunno if it would make for a fun experience though, at least definitely not for everyone.
btw i'm focusing on melee and put aside blows from cavalry and range which are different topics on their own :p
Here is a nice video trying to approach a "realistic" fight :
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