What do you like / hate about using the mod tools?

[Thorgrim]

When I started out making mod tools for M&B, it was really just to see what could be accomplished with the M&B engine, I wasn't too concerned with how tricky the interface of the tool was to use, or how easy it was to learn.  As anyone will know, the Map Editor has some interface problems... It’s better than it was, but there are a ton of shortcut keys to remember if you want to do anything advanced, and most people just don’t even know about them.

So when making BRFEdit, I tried to make things a bit clearer.  The interface (I hope) is much easier to use, and hopefully behaves how you expect (you can drag and drop files onto it, there are check boxes and buttons, menus etc for you to use if you don’t like shortcut keys, and lots of auto focusing on lists etc that you probably don’t notice).    However there are still some aspects of it that im sure people hate using.

Anyway, the idea behind this thread is to get an idea about what people like / hate about the tools they use to make their mods.  In fact, feel free to list things in other programs, maybe mod tools for other games, that you would like to see available when making M&B mods.  It can be about any aspect:  Using the unofficial editor, using the official module system (python), using BRFEdit, the map editor, even other tools, like your modelling program, or photoshop, paint, the text editor you use to do your scripting, anything at all!

I want to know what you hate doing, what annoys you, and on the other side, what you find really useful, use a lot, or would really like to see in a mod tool.

Thanks in advance for any feedback you can give, it will be very helpful

 

[Highlander]

I hate that the texture coordinates or how they are called arent exportet, when you export from BRFEdit, so you have to texture the whole mesh again, when you want to change something.

 

[Yoshiboy]

I would tell you but i use all my programs so much that i get use to the tedious things you have to do as part of my workflow - every digital artist hates unwrapping when they first start, but after a while you just live with it and do it.

I have to say BRFedit is extremely good - better than most commercial programs to use. The UI is perfect IMO, i guess i can't ask for much more. The map editor as well. My main problem with the map editor is i use lots of undo slots so it becomes a real RAM whore. This means i can't play music while using it or it starts to skip tracks. But that isn't really anything wrong with the program.

One of the things i hate about notepad2 is that you will be highlighting a line and it will scroll along with your highlight, then, if you happen to move the mouse down a little it will think you want to highlight the line below as well and scroll all the way back over to the left. Meaning you have to repeat the process again.

In the module system i'm not keen on dialogues of mission templates, but i can't really think of a better way of doing them than how they are done at the moment...

 

[Thorgrim]

I hate that the texture coordinates or how they are called arent exportet, when you export from BRFEdit, so you have to texture the whole mesh again, when you want to change something.

Hmm, do you mean the vertex painting?  Texture coordinates are exported... but vertex painting is not, and most formats cannot support it, so I cant export it.  However I do have some work around ideas, so thanks for reminding me

Yoshiboy: Thanks, thats a good start, but I'm sure there must be more stuff you hate!

 

[Yoshiboy]

Ok, now that you make me think, the fog draw on BRFedit could be expanded a little. Many of my dungeon scenes i can't see when i am working on them.
Errr, skeleton editing?
On the map editor when you make a hill too steep it goes nasty coloured in game - the lighting messes up. Maybe there could be a warning for that in the map editor.
On the map editor some of the buttons on the menu seem hard to press. Sometimes they work, sometimes you have to aim a little lower (or higher, i'm not sure). You could make them indent.
Stuff starting maximized when you had i maximized last time you used it is always nice - map editor.
Everyone loves more in depth error reports - for the module system and for when starting M&B or when M&B crashes randomly.
maybe just the RAM whoreness of it - but my map editor seems to crash randomly sometimes, usually when playing music. Usually it crashes when saving, and saving works fine. So i never lose sleep over it.
I hate having to do materials AND texture referances. Espically since armagan removed all the .jpg textures in M&B, it seems pointless.

 

[Highlander]

Hmm, do you mean the vertex painting?  Texture coordinates are exported... but vertex painting is not, and most formats cannot support it, so I cant export it.  However I do have some work around ideas, so thanks for reminding me 

argh don't know how they are called... I mean this: If you select in Wings the mesh after importing and press UV mapping => direct, that doesn't work and you have to UV mapp it again, hope you know what I'm meaning...

 

[Scion]

Beside from being a very stable and excellent tool, I simply love the vertex/face painting in BRFEdit. It has become essential to me. The amount of steps of undoing here is very handy. What would be a nice addition is a "get color" tool, like in painting programs (can't remember what it's called... eyedrop?), for picking correct colors from the model. Then, when revisiting a vertex painted model, you don't have to feel your way through to the correct color you used.

The things I disliked about this program was eliminated in the newest version, things like undoing (allthough I would like to see it in the text fields as well).

One thing which I can't demand from BRFEdit is to help me with relative positioning of meshes. For example, I've made a new helmet from scratch but it is really difficult to scale it, positioning it and so on relative to the head in-game. The only way to do it is to enter the game, leave it, reposition, import, enter the game again and so on, until it looks right. Requires hours. So very basic mesh editing in BRFEdit like scaling the whole model and positioning it would save a lot of time, but this kind of thing is too much to ask for.

For the modulesystem, I only hate the lack of documentation, and there could in my opinion be more operations available. I would also like to have the option of using still pictures as backgrounds different places etc. Besides from that, I was really surprised about everything I could do with it.

I haven't worked with the Map Editor as much as I have with the other tools, but I couldn't find anything about it I didn't like.

And, by the way, I love the great web-support for these tools 

 

[Yoshiboy]

One thing which I can't demand from BRFEdit is to help me with relative positioning of meshes. For example, I've made a new helmet from scratch but it is really difficult to scale it, positioning it and so on relative to the head in-game. The only way to do it is to enter the game, leave it, reposition, import, enter the game again and so on, until it looks right. Requires hours. So very basic mesh editing in BRFEdit like scaling the whole model and positioning it would save a lot of time, but this kind of thing is too much to ask for.

For helmets you can in fact export the head mesh and position it on that before exporting.

 

[Scion]

Yes I can  thanks!

 

[Yoshiboy]

In BRFedit:

Multi-mesh still is using the old way, it needs to be updated really.
Importing meshes which are multipal objects will be split up unto multi-mesh even when they are the same material.

Both of those i just found annoying now when working

 

[Thorgrim]

Ok, now that you make me think, the fog draw on BRFedit could be expanded a little. Many of my dungeon scenes i can't see when i am working on them.
Errr, skeleton editing?

Done

I hate having to do materials AND texture referances. Espically since armagan removed all the .jpg textures in M&B, it seems pointless.

You know BRFEdit imports the mtl files if they are in the same directory as the obj?  So if you set up the material right in Wings or whatever before you export, all you should need to do is set the material and shader flags for it.  It should automatically create materials and textures if they do not already exist.

Scion: Thanks, I have been looking into some new vertex painting tools like those
Next version also has some better options for exporting faces, which should be pretty handy
BTW, there is also a scale menu option in BRFEdit, but it is far from accurate at the moment.

In BRFedit:

Multi-mesh still is using the old way, it needs to be updated really.
Importing meshes which are multiple objects will be split up unto multi-mesh even when they are the same material.

Both of those i just found annoying now when working

Yes, new version has better multi-mesh importing, I know it sucks in 0.6.3, sorry

 

[Manitas]

Multi-mesh still is using the old way, it needs to be updated really.
Importing meshes which are multipal objects will be split up unto multi-mesh even when they are the same material.

Is there any way around that?
I've got an item coming in 2 parts, which are same material.
If the first multimesh does not have the '.1' suffix one of the items is not displayed
If it has, the game crashes in inventory screen, when trying to wear it.

 

[Yoshiboy]

Multi-mesh still is using the old way, it needs to be updated really.
Importing meshes which are multipal objects will be split up unto multi-mesh even when they are the same material.

Is there any way around that?
I've got an item coming in 2 parts, which are same material.
If the first multimesh does not have the '.1' suffix one of the items is not displayed
If it has, the game crashes in inventory screen, when trying to wear it.

I don't think that the crashing is due to the multi-meshing. All that is wrong with thor's program is the display. In game it still should work fine. Just name everything with .1 .2 etc etc.

If it crashes that is probably due to a problem with the second multi-mesh. Or you doing a wrong mesh name when refering to the item.

 

[Thorgrim]

Hmm, do you mean the vertex painting?  Texture coordinates are exported... but vertex painting is not, and most formats cannot support it, so I cant export it.  However I do have some work around ideas, so thanks for reminding me 

argh don't know how they are called... I mean this: If you select in Wings the mesh after importing and press UV mapping => direct, that doesn't work and you have to UV mapp it again, hope you know what I'm meaning...

Well I'm not sure what you are on about, but it sounds like you are re UV mapping it or something?

Of course its not going to keep the UVs if you re map it.... 


Just select the mesh, then do Window > UV Editor window.

I just tried it and it works perfectly.

Multi-mesh still is using the old way, it needs to be updated really.
Importing meshes which are multipal objects will be split up unto multi-mesh even when they are the same material.

Is there any way around that?
I've got an item coming in 2 parts, which are same material.
If the first multimesh does not have the '.1' suffix one of the items is not displayed
If it has, the game crashes in inventory screen, when trying to wear it.

And Yosh is right... its only a problem with the display, if its not working in game I would guess it is something different.  If you add .1 to the first mesh it should display ok in the current version.

 

[Diabelica]

When I get an error of "some spawn points / towns is in an an unreacheble point" while we are getting out of map editor is it possible to tell us which one?

Because I have this problem and I can't find which spawn point/town is the problem at the moment.

And I have got too many spawn points and towns on my map.So it's a problem for me to find the correct one.

Is it a way to determine this.

 

[Manitas]

And Yosh is right... its only a problem with the display, if its not working in game I would guess it is something different.  If you add .1 to the first mesh it should display ok in the current version.

Hard to tell what's wrong, I'm getting an array of weirdnesses on my configuration.
The only thing that seems to be sure is that meshes are ok. I found a nasty workaround - connected both objects with a string made of the 'hole' material thus joining them into one. - now they are displayed just fine and don't cause any problems.

 

[Thorgrim]

When I get an error of "some spawn points / towns is in an an unreacheble point" while we are getting out of map editor is it possible to tell us which one?

Because I have this problem and I can't find which spawn point/town is the problem at the moment.

And I have got too many spawn points and towns on my map.So it's a problem for me to find the correct one.

Is it a way to determine this.

Yes, the map editor highlights it red. However telling you the name of the party when it reports the error would be handy.  I'll add it to the todolist for when I get back to working on the Map Editor

 

[oRGy]

Would be nice to be able to import colour maps into the map editor, other than that, it all seems good. 

 

[Thorgrim]

You can.

Just add -c to the end of the file name, so for example blah-c.bmp then place it in the EditorData dir and do Menu->Import.

Its a bit of a silly way to do it though... I should make a proper interface so you can select what you want to import it as.

 

[Diabelica]

In Brf edit is it possible to list the items in an alphabetical order? If not it would be a great help to add this function.