What do you guys want the game to be as a finished product?

[babelfisch]

i mean, your argument is totally flawed on a few accounts (but I think i am not getting your point, see after point #2).

#1, its my opinion, its not a matter of fact - the same goes for the positive reviews
#2 positive reviews are 87% overall, and it can include people who have changed their reviews from negative to positive, because there has been some clear improvement since launch (which I note in my negative review).

On the specifics of what you are asking (I think you are asking why some ppl tend to hate it, but the perception is overall positive IE steam reviews - is that correct?)

I have a pretty simple explanation - most of the people who reviewed played it for the first time, and mount & blade as a series/concept is nothing short of revolutionary (I remember how much i loved M&B and warband, they are excellent games). If you look at the positive reviews, the vast majority are in April of 2020, as are the negative reviews.

All the positive reviews stop coming in after may. You basically have to count how many people bought the game, count how many did not vote, and then understand the discrepancy in representation of the opinions. On the forum, my perspective is that it is 50-65% (maybe even more) disappointment. Thats a stark contrast with the steam page reviews.

Also RDR2 has 82% positive, and 15,000 (out of 120,000) came in November/december), no doubt due to a $5 game release for the online mode...

You make an interested point, im just not totally convinced, or seem to understand what you are saying. Please clarify.

That's a good answer, thank you.

It's not very common that people see their view as an opinion rather than universal fact, especially on forums. I can understand where your disappointment / frustration comes from. Considering Warband was developed in less time with a much smaller team, we had every reason to expect more than a graphics update and a few better mechanics.
Personally I am pretty happy with how things are going, but that's just because I have low expectations in general...
I agree with your point about long term / new players. It might not be like 50% of long term players are unhappy but I believe you are right that there is a difference how people perceive the game and what they expected from it.

 

[Revverie]

That's a good answer, thank you.

It's not very common that people see their view as an opinion rather than universal fact, especially on forums. I can understand where your disappointment / frustration comes from. Considering Warband was developed in less time with a much smaller team, we had every reason to expect more than a graphics update and a few better mechanics.
Personally I am pretty happy with how things are going, but that's just because I have low expectations in general...
I agree with your point about long term / new players. It might not be like 50% of long term players are unhappy but I believe you are right that there is a difference how people perceive the game and what they expected from it.

Look, its not a bad game, in fact its quite fun, and it should be fun specially for new comers, but when I criticize this game for having 1. no direction and 2. not being a real expansion of what we had then (the heirs and death system is a step in the right direction but its so off right now I cant consider it a full feature until its released) I dont think I'm wrong at all, and most of my worries would be solved if the devs just talked to us like humans and not like consumers (some of the devs do) with these threads and posts, what I mean is that it would be nice if they shared with us what the hell do they want to do with this game in the end, thats literally what I'm asking in this thread and nothing else. If the game has good or bad reviews, Idk, there are a million factors coming into place which I really dont care to discuss, because most of the confusion in these forums are the lack of vision on what the hell are we getting.

And even if they said that this is all we could expect, and some other little additions and QoL, I wouldnt mind honestly, at least I wouldnt be making theories and expectations on what I'm getting in a game I've already paid for, I would just sit patiently until they finish, and wait for modders to bring their interesting ideas into the game. Its too much to ask?

 

[kreamy]

Look, its not a bad game, in fact its quite fun, and it should be fun specially for new comers, but when I criticize this game for having 1. no direction and 2. not being a real expansion of what we had then (the heirs and death system is a step in the right direction but its so off right now I cant consider it a full feature until its released) I dont think I'm wrong at all, and most of my worries would be solved if the devs just talked to us like humans and not like consumers (some of the devs do) with these threads and posts, what I mean is that it would be nice if they shared with us what the hell do they want to do with this game in the end, thats literally what I'm asking in this thread and nothing else. If the game has good or bad reviews, Idk, there are a million factors coming into place which I really dont care to discuss, because most of the confusion in these forums are the lack of vision on what the hell are we getting.

And even if they said that this is all we could expect, and some other little additions and QoL, I wouldnt mind honestly, at least I wouldnt be making theories and expectations on what I'm getting in a game I've already paid for, I would just sit patiently until they finish, and wait for modders to bring their interesting ideas into the game. Its too much to ask?

I doubly agree with that.

More to your point, what if the game they are developing is not the game we want?
Early Access is an emphasis to develop the game the community wants, because we pay upfront according to the expectations they are selling us.

If they are going to give us a game we really do not want, they should only release the game when it is ready, and the consumer can then decide whether or not to purchase it - not the stockholm syndrome we are expected to develop.

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We intend to use a range of different methods to gather player feedback and data throughout the early access period. These include engaging with users directly on our official forum and our Steam forum, requesting specific feedback through questionnaires, hosting and participating in multiplayer events alongside our community, and using analytics tools to gather data.”


Have you ever once seen a TW questionnaire for feedback?????
Gathering feedback and using it are two different things honestly. But im tired already of this.

 

[TheBerserk]

The game gets 93% recent positive reviews on Steam. Do you have an explanation why the general perception of the title is so much better?
I don't doubt that you don't like the game / feel disappointed, I am just curious where the discrepancy comes from. If you read the forums you could come to the conclusion that the game is a scam while the majority of players gives it a rating similar to Red Dead Redemption 2.

steam notes are worthless

 

[Revverie]

I doubly agree with that.

More to your point, what if the game they are developing is not the game we want?
Early Access is an emphasis to develop the game the community wants, because we pay upfront according to the expectations they are selling us.

If they are going to give us a game we really do not want, they should only release the game when it is ready, and the consumer can then decide whether or not to purchase it - not the stockholm syndrome we are expected to develop.

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We intend to use a range of different methods to gather player feedback and data throughout the early access period. These include engaging with users directly on our official forum and our Steam forum, requesting specific feedback through questionnaires, hosting and participating in multiplayer events alongside our community, and using analytics tools to gather data.”


Have you ever once seen a TW questionnaire for feedback?????
Gathering feedback and using it are two different things honestly. But im tired already of this.

In the end they will make anything they want to mate, that's the reality even if you agree or not, you're paying the company so they can make the game THEY want to, feedback it's just feedback and despite they've taken it in some places they won't do everything we ask for (biggest example being the class system). Sign mistake me I don't preach in favor of their actions, what I'm asking here for is sincerity and straightforwardness, it's incredible we pay these guys and they barely answer threads and issues, the communication of this company is so ridiculous that the devs go outside their job times to answer to the community because the managers won't do so.
I just want to know what the hell we're getting in the end, as I've said, we've payed them so they can develop, that doesn't mean we own them, but they do owe us some clarifications, both as humans and customers

 

[kreamy]

In the end they will make anything they want to mate, that's the reality even if you agree or not, you're paying the company so they can make the game THEY want to, feedback it's just feedback and despite they've taken it in some places they won't do everything we ask for (biggest example being the class system). Sign mistake me I don't preach in favor of their actions, what I'm asking here for is sincerity and straightforwardness, it's incredible we pay these guys and they barely answer threads and issues, the communication of this company is so ridiculous that the devs go outside their job times to answer to the community because the managers won't do so.
I just want to know what the hell we're getting in the end, as I've said, we've payed them so they can develop, that doesn't mean we own them, but they do owe us some clarifications, both as humans and customers

look im with you on that. but what they are doing goes against traditional business conventions, and they will end up paying for it in the long run, even though they got a win out of this (did they even? We dont even know if they have made significant profits from this game, they were putting it on sale within a few months after release...)

I really disagree with us owning them. Its not that we own them, but they sold a product with the understanding that they would engage us, and they didnt. Thats one of the biggest problems.

It seems we are saying very similarly the same thing. I dont expect them to do every move we ask for, obviously not, thats ridiculous. But within the scope of what they are able to accomplish, and within the scope of what the community demands, they should make a serious attempt to bridge that gap - which they havent honestly.

SO, we are saying the same thing in different words.
Yes, i agree with you.

 

[Because]

Warband HD

+1

 

[babelfisch]

steam notes are worthless

Just like the opinion of angry forum berserkers.

I've read some very good and (in my opinion) valid criticism. But I've also read nonsense like 'the game is a scam' / ' worst EA ever' / 'modders are way better than developers' etc. And that's just entitled nonsense for the most part.

 

[TheBerserk]

Just like the opinion of angry forum berserkers.

I've read some very good and (in my opinion) valid criticism. But I've also read nonsense like 'the game is a scam' / ' worst EA ever' / 'modders are way better than developers' etc. And that's just entitled nonsense for the most part.

I could also tell you about the people who oversell it, so yeah you just don't like people saying that gambling has problems, long live the dictatorship as they say

"modders are way better than developers" unfortunately for you it's true

the problem is that on steam almost all the games even the bad licenses are rated in positive, with only two voting choices a blue and red thumb it is very limited as a rating

 

[babelfisch]

I could also tell you about the people who oversell it, so yeah you just don't like people saying that gambling has problems, long live the dictatorship as they say

I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.

"modders are way better than developers" unfortunately for you it's true

Fortunately it's just nonsense.

the problem is that on steam almost all the games even the bad licenses are rated in positive, with only two voting choices a blue and red thumb it is very limited as a rating

And the problem on forums is that many people post nonsense like you did above. I don't have anything against mods as long as I am not forced to use them. They are great as long as they are optional. Imagine you are forced to install every single mod that was released for Bannerlord so far: Welcome to hell.

 

[TheBerserk]

I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.


Fortunately it's just nonsense.




And the problem on forums is that many people post nonsense like you did above. I don't have anything against mods as long as I am not forced to use them. They are great as long as they are optional. Imagine you are forced to install every single mod that was released for Bannerlord so far: Welcome to hell.

"I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. "

I'm just saying you're gonna look like a fanboy who can't seem to take bad talk about his game as I have seen


"nonsense" yet everyone seems to be praying for mods and you are going to make me believe that it is not yet the modders who are going to do most of the work.

you who seem to take steam as a safe bet in terms of rating, even there you will see that everyone uses the mods argument as a bigger expectation than the developer updates mais ok " non sense ".
mods are one of the reasons why surely the majority of people still listen to the game, it's sad but it's reality

 

[Andrei[beast]]

"I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. "

I'm just saying you're gonna look like a fanboy who can't seem to take bad talk about his game as I have seen


"nonsense" yet everyone seems to be praying for mods and you are going to make me believe that it is not yet the modders who are going to do most of the work.

you who seem to take steam as a safe bet in terms of rating, even there you will see that everyone uses the mods argument as a bigger expectation than the developer updates mais ok " non sense ".
mods are one of the reasons why surely the majority of people still listen to the game, it's sad but it's reality

Yeah, no, not a fanboy. Likes the vanilla game? Yes. Threatens people saying that their opinion doesn't matter as the game doesn't need your nonsense? Not quite, maybe the nonsense part. I get his point of view and i also get yours, maybe agree with your point on this comment especially but it's not correct to assume that modders are better than some developers, again AT LEAST in my point of view and his also. We have some modders that made it in the TW team, i think Duh is one of them and it shows how related they are to mods.
Now again, i respect your opinion regarding mods, but as a person that prefers vanilla i get others as well. Don't get me wrong, there are some mods out there that i'm just salivating when i see them in videos, but promised myself that first i'll beat the game without mods so i can finally feel accomplished with at least one m&b title.
Back to your topic, yes mods will be what brings many people back tot the game and will probably be more immersive than the game itself once it finally gets released and mods will be stable.

 

[babelfisch]

"I have no idea what you are trying to tell me. "

I'm just saying you're gonna look like a fanboy who can't seem to take bad talk about his game as I have seen

I prefer criticism (and agree with many things most people criticise). What I don't like is the aggressive and insulting tone some people use.

"nonsense" yet everyone seems to be praying for mods and you are going to make me believe that it is not yet the modders who are going to do most of the work.

Of course everyone is wanting mods. Personally I can't wait for Kingdoms of Arda. What makes the M&B series special is that it's perfect for modding, not necessarily because it's modding friendly but because the gameplay and sandbox mechanics can be adapted for all kinds of worlds like realistic europe or lord of the rings. It's TWs job to provide the basics, this time with proper modding tools to allow modders to do their awesome work.
I don't think it makes much sense to compare the amount of work required for mods to the actual game development.

you who seem to take steam as a safe bet in terms of rating, even there you will see that everyone uses the mods argument as a bigger expectation than the developer updates mais ok " non sense ".

No, I don't take steam as a safe bet. I pointed out the discrepancy between the general negativity on the forums and the mostly positive reactions on Steam. I don't know what's hard to understand about it.

mods are one of the reasons why surely the majority of people still listen to the game, it's sad but it's reality

Without mods Warband wouldn't have been as successful and there probably wouldn't even be a Bannerlord. I don't know what's sad about that.

 

[Pejot]

Without mods Warband wouldn't have been as successful and there probably wouldn't even be a Bannerlord. I don't know what's sad about that.

Basically without mods Warband wouldn't even exist since it is just an upgrade to original M&B that implements things from mods for the first game.

 

[Andrei[beast]]

Basically without mods Warband wouldn't even exist since it is just an upgrade to original M&B that implements things from mods for the first game.

Which kinda differs from Bannerlord being made and not taking things from mods. Imagine Bannerlord: Warparty with several mod things being implemented

 

[danEN]

Here is what I want :

- Feasts
- Diplomacy, alliances
- Cinematics (marriage, feasts, etc)
- Hunts
- Good units pathfinding
- Heroes getting married and having childs
- Cities more "alive"
- Walls totally destructible during sieges
- Plots, intrigue
- Every single detail that can add depth to the game, it looks dead atm

+
-Rebellions
-Civil Wars
-Banner creator
-Pre-battle deployment
-Campaign history/record screen. (Might already be in no idea)
-Relations between factions (For more realistic diplomacy, like in total war)
-Longer battles
-Better AI army tactics and formations.

The list just goes on.

 

[babelfisch]

Which kinda differs from Bannerlord being made and not taking things from mods. Imagine Bannerlord: Warparty with several mod things being implemented

Sounds good, maybe that's something for the future?

I think it wouldn't be sensible from a developer perspective to take popular mods and implement them 1:1 during development. Which doesn't mean they shouldn't take inspiration. Some stuff might conflict with future planned mechanics, other stuff might be bad for balancing.

 

[Andrei[beast]]

Sounds good, maybe that's something for the future?

I think it wouldn't be sensible from a developer perspective to take popular mods and implement them 1:1 during development. Which doesn't mean they shouldn't take inspiration. Some stuff might conflict with future planned mechanics, other stuff might be bad for balancing.

Well i just made a bad joke XD. But yeah, it would be cool indeed but it'll take too much time and nothing stops them from improving and adding content to bannerlord.

 

[guiskj]

I wanted it to be a game, even maybe a good one. I have now settled for hopefully something in the vein of RPGMaker, where modders can create actual games that are worth playing.

I know this sounds harsh and that are a lot of people here that will say "how is Bannerlord not a game when I have already sunk 500+ hours into it?". And I guess our perspectives would differ on whether you consider something like Microsoft's Flight Simulator a game. Because in my mind that is what we have in Bannerlord, a simulator (and a janky one at that) not a game.

 

[Marcolino]

What I would like is:
ability to award fiefs (if I am the King) to my clan members and companions. This includes awarding fiefs already granted to me over to them.
make castles more useful
bring in Chamberlains so we can manage the kingdom from the Lord’s hall (as we did in warband)
enable diplomacy mechanics (alliances, trade agreements, etc)
enable defecting lords to want to join the player’s own kingdom. Right now they only seem to want to join ai kingdoms
enable skill books as we used to have in warband (but a much bigger number of these skill books would be helpful)
ability to marry clan/family/companion members and thus, create potential alliances

everything else we can mod