What do you guys think of a stamina system in Bannerlord?

[lolbash]

Regarding cavalry and you being a pro player: Lets see what cavalry has: 180 degree invisible shields, shielding the horse's head which is a glitch - happens in certain situations like difference in ping but it still happens. Superior mobility, unlimited bump, bump-thrust, knockdown at high speeds, easy escapes from zergs. If you think Cav is balanced, you are delusional.

Oh are we spreading bull**** that I already disproved wrong again? Did my other thread specifically talking about bannerlord calvary not tell you that that you are wrong?

Whatever ill just link the youtube video again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waD1YjNRn0A

No, his argument is that in real life you could reliably complement your army with lightly armoured soldiers.

This is where ****ed-up economy kicks in, you don't use light gear because heavy gear is easily available. You don't use light troops because heavy troops are easily available. There's no reason to utilize lighter forces on the field if you can stash them at the bottom of your party and wait till they're elite.

That being said, I believe Bannerlord will address at least some of the components of this problem. One of the devblogs already told us that elite troops are being gated behind the new NPC-based recruitment system

Some special troops, such as Vlandian Knights, represent minor nobility. These kinds of units have completely different troop trees. In the instance of Vlandian Knights, they can only be upgraded from Vlandian Squires, who in turn can only be recruited from NPC nobles. With this in mind, it is wise to maintain good relations with Vlandian nobles if your eventual aim is to have Vlandian Knights in your party.

However, that’s not to say that you are restricted from acquiring heavy cavalry if your relations with the Vlandian nobility is too poor. You will still have access to Vlandian Men-at- arms, who are almost as skilled as Knights but aren’t as heavily armoured.

Then there are those mysterious ambushes, which could be flavour talk in factions' blog, but maybe it wasn't and that could utilize lighter units as well. Heck, whole Battanian faction seems to revolve around lightly armoured troops, so I imagine they'll have something to not make choosing them a dead-end.

Easy, just make the swadian knights cost 1000 denars a week. Now no one will complain about them being OP, because, their OPness can only be used in desperate times.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

The 180 degree shield block on cav is for melee. It is real, you can test it. If the cav rider is facing and blocking left and you attack as cav from the same side even if you are basically behind them, the melee attack will still be blocked, and the shield will often block attacks at the ground level from inf too.

 

[578]

Regarding cavalry and you being a pro player: Lets see what cavalry has: 180 degree invisible shields, shielding the horse's head which is a glitch - happens in certain situations like difference in ping but it still happens. Superior mobility, unlimited bump, bump-thrust, knockdown at high speeds, easy escapes from zergs. If you think Cav is balanced, you are delusional.

Oh are we spreading bull**** that I already disproved wrong again? Did my other thread specifically talking about bannerlord not tell you that that you are wrong?

Whatever ill just link the youtube video again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waD1YjNRn0A

No, his argument is that in real life you could reliably complement your army with lightly armoured soldiers.

This is where ****ed-up economy kicks in, you don't use light gear because heavy gear is easily available. You don't use light troops because heavy troops are easily available. There's no reason to utilize lighter forces on the field if you can stash them at the bottom of your party and wait till they're elite.

That being said, I believe Bannerlord will address at least some of the components of this problem. One of the devblogs already told us that elite troops are being gated behind the new NPC-based recruitment system

Some special troops, such as Vlandian Knights, represent minor nobility. These kinds of units have completely different troop trees. In the instance of Vlandian Knights, they can only be upgraded from Vlandian Squires, who in turn can only be recruited from NPC nobles. With this in mind, it is wise to maintain good relations with Vlandian nobles if your eventual aim is to have Vlandian Knights in your party.

However, that’s not to say that you are restricted from acquiring heavy cavalry if your relations with the Vlandian nobility is too poor. You will still have access to Vlandian Men-at- arms, who are almost as skilled as Knights but aren’t as heavily armoured.

Then there are those mysterious ambushes, which could be flavour talk in factions' blog, but maybe it wasn't and that could utilize lighter units as well. Heck, whole Battanian faction seems to revolve around lightly armoured troops, so I imagine they'll have something to not make choosing them a dead-end.

Easy, just make the swadian knights cost 1000 denars a week. Now no one will complain about them being OP, because, their OPness can only be used in desperate times.

Are you not bored of making a fool of yourself?

 

[Duh]

Can you guys not flame each other? The moment you do, you decrease the chances of your feedback ever being heard by the people that matter.

 

[jon01]

You can see in the first clip of this video a cavalry player somehow shielding his back from an awlpike when his shield is held in front of him.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

You can see in the first clip of this video a cavalry player somehow shielding his back from an awlpike when his shield is held in front of him.

It is clearly because of the bad hitboxes of the Warband it will be better in Bannerlord
what about talking about süper mario jumps of those infantries ?

 

[578]

You can see in the first clip of this video a cavalry player somehow shielding his back from an awlpike when his shield is held in front of him.

I also enjoy the fact that in that video the horse bumps the character, literally passing THROUGH him and a thrust is still being able to hit him. Cav is balanced. 

This video shows everything I talk against. Thank you for this.

 

[Looter]

"Skill"

 

[Jason L.]

I'm not a fan of stamina systems. If TW include it in Bannerlord, I'd want an option setting that allowed me to switch it off.

This!

 

[$agar]

I'm not a fan of stamina systems. If TW include it in Bannerlord, I'd want an option setting that allowed me to switch it off.

This!

I agree, but only for singleplayer.

On the other side, for multiplayer is must.
It would be a significant improvement in Warbend's bugged mechanics.
When someone yells "but it will disrupt the current way of playing and skill"
.... what skill? ... endless macro spam, autoblockers, inhumane movements, more accurate with medieval range then modern rifles, horses hitting obstacles (wall, fence etc.) full speed without hp loss, curved weapons (scimitar etc.) hit you before - because model is straight ... I'm sure there is more, but cant remember now.

Stamina would make a much better combat system.
For example inhumane movements with macro will drain your stamina ... player need to be much more cautious or dead.
Endless holding a shield while someone hitting you .... nope, that will drain your stamina.
Oh and walking backwards - need to be random after some steps stumble and fall.

I'm aware that developers will not cut down the branch they're sitting on - If the majority does not want so, but they can at least do some things better, yet they make a new game and not the same with better graphics.

 

[Looter]

Shields: "Oh no in being bombarded by arrows, lets just lower the shield because I'm a little tired"

If the player doesn't react and stands there to take the constant slashes his shield will break already and he'll be punished for inaction with the loss of his equipment. But there should be no reason to not be able to use that shield so long as you possess it because of stamina.

Also tripping after walking backwards for 5 seconds wouldn't be a good feature, it would just be frustrating to play with and adds nothing productive.
If I recall they have something to reduce feint spamming already and that should be enough.

 

[Orion]

I'm not a fan of stamina systems. If TW include it in Bannerlord, I'd want an option setting that allowed me to switch it off.

This!

I agree, but only for singleplayer.

On the other side, for multiplayer is must.
It would be a significant improvement in Warbend's bugged mechanics.
When someone yells "but it will disrupt the current way of playing and skill"
.... what skill? ... endless macro spam, autoblockers, inhumane movements, more accurate with medieval range then modern rifles, horses hitting obstacles (wall, fence etc.) full speed without hp loss, curved weapons (scimitar etc.) hit you before - because model is straight ... I'm sure there is more, but cant remember now.

Stamina would make a much better combat system.
For example inhumane movements with macro will drain your stamina ... player need to be much more cautious or dead.
Endless holding a shield while someone hitting you .... nope, that will drain your stamina.
Oh and walking backwards - need to be random after some steps stumble and fall.

I'm aware that developers will not cut down the branch they're sitting on - If the majority does not want so, but they can at least do some things better, yet they make a new game and not the same with better graphics.

If you want to fix autoblockers and macros, which are cheating, then TaleWorlds must have some form of anticheat. Stamina would not fix cheating.

I appreciate your attempt at providing examples of how broken Warband is but everything you've said is exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous (like bow accuracy, have you even played the game), and your examples of how stamina would benefit Bannerlord are redundant (shields break, why does shield blocking need another limit) or detrimental to any skill-based combat system I can conceive of (randomly falling while walking backwards).

Any argument in favor of implementing stamina as a fix to cheating is not made in good faith, and ignores the real problem while trying to push some "omgrealism" agenda.

as you're sitting here talking to one with a thorough understanding of the game at higher levels who is literally telling you in plain words why cavalry is not, in your own words, "overpowered."

What? 

Lastly, if you dont want mount and blade to evolve, that's fine. You can stay and play the flawed Warband forever. For the last time, everything in this thread is for the sake of discussion. I dont care about stamina to the point of losing sleep over it, I have about 1.2k hours in Warband, I have learned to play without it.

I remember the last time you brought up hours played like it means something. This time might be even funnier.

 

[$agar]

Hey I love M&B, and I play it from very first beginnings 
This above is just some of the things that are unacceptable for the new game.
I agree that TaleWorlds must have some form of anticheat for autoblockers and macros, I just thought that macro and similar abusing mechanics would not work with stamina.
As far as shields are concerned, they now work as directional blocking, so I guess that is ok.
I cant wait to put my hands on Bannerlord, as well as all of you, but I just hope that devs will better implement these issues in new game.

 

[Cale]

Stamina system nearly put me off Viking Conquest and, before that, the 1066 mod back in the day. Just the ridiculousness of suddenly falling over for no reason drove me mad (I did find the switch off button for VC eventually thankfully).

As someone who fights in re-enactment battles fairly frequently I have fought before for over an hour on the field with individual clashes running for about 10 minutes of solid fighting (I'm thinking of the really big Hastings in 2006 and a few other shows). That may not sound like a lot but trust me, 10 minutes of constant fighting is exhausting in Mail, Helmet etc and by the fourth clash you are really, really tired.

Funny thing though, I didn't just randomnly fall over or decide to drop my shield and not block all the spears poking at me. Your overall skill level is definitely effected by being tired but there's no good way to show this in game. The reality is you get a little bit slower bit by bit, not just hit a magic number of tiredness and stop fighting. To put that in a game mechanic would be really hard to do and I really don't think its worth it.

Additionally, all my experience is as a (inconsistently fit) weekend warrior. In M&B I'm playing a character who has literally done this their whole life and who is riding/fighting/training every day. They should be able to go on way past the point I myself could.

 

[578]

I'm not a fan of stamina systems. If TW include it in Bannerlord, I'd want an option setting that allowed me to switch it off.

This!

I agree, but only for singleplayer.

On the other side, for multiplayer is must.
It would be a significant improvement in Warbend's bugged mechanics.
When someone yells "but it will disrupt the current way of playing and skill"
.... what skill? ... endless macro spam, autoblockers, inhumane movements, more accurate with medieval range then modern rifles, horses hitting obstacles (wall, fence etc.) full speed without hp loss, curved weapons (scimitar etc.) hit you before - because model is straight ... I'm sure there is more, but cant remember now.

Stamina would make a much better combat system.
For example inhumane movements with macro will drain your stamina ... player need to be much more cautious or dead.
Endless holding a shield while someone hitting you .... nope, that will drain your stamina.
Oh and walking backwards - need to be random after some steps stumble and fall.

I'm aware that developers will not cut down the branch they're sitting on - If the majority does not want so, but they can at least do some things better, yet they make a new game and not the same with better graphics.

If you want to fix autoblockers and macros, which are cheating, then TaleWorlds must have some form of anticheat. Stamina would not fix cheating.

I appreciate your attempt at providing examples of how broken Warband is but everything you've said is exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous (like bow accuracy, have you even played the game), and your examples of how stamina would benefit Bannerlord are redundant (shields break, why does shield blocking need another limit) or detrimental to any skill-based combat system I can conceive of (randomly falling while walking backwards).

Any argument in favor of implementing stamina as a fix to cheating is not made in good faith, and ignores the real problem while trying to push some "omgrealism" agenda.

as you're sitting here talking to one with a thorough understanding of the game at higher levels who is literally telling you in plain words why cavalry is not, in your own words, "overpowered."

What? 

Lastly, if you dont want mount and blade to evolve, that's fine. You can stay and play the flawed Warband forever. For the last time, everything in this thread is for the sake of discussion. I dont care about stamina to the point of losing sleep over it, I have about 1.2k hours in Warband, I have learned to play without it.

I remember the last time you brought up hours played like it means something. This time might be even funnier.

1.2k hours is enough to get used in almost every system in multiplayer. I am not sure what you talk about. Time does matter. In warband you won't be a good player with 100 hours of casually playing the game online. Or maybe I misunderstood your post.

 

[VVyrd]

Add stamina on multiplayer and I'm simply not buying the game, despite me being a die-hard fan. This is not Skyrim or Chivalry. Don't like two-handed spammers? Learn to play.

 

[Orion]

Party-level fatigue in the campaign is something I'm OK with, and it would ideally affect morale, movement speed (equivalent to about -2 athletics at the absolute max), and weapon proficiency (maybe -15%, again at the max) for all members of a party. The hard part is applying it to AI parties and getting them to manage it intelligently.

1.2k hours is enough to get used in almost every system in multiplayer. I am not sure what you talk about. Time does matter. In warband you won't be a good player with 100 hours of casually playing the game online. Or maybe I misunderstood your post.

Kinda. You can play 1200 hours and know about every system, but you can play 12000 and still not master them all. After a point, hours played becomes meaningless and what separates players then is their dedication to improving themselves. There's also teamwork, which you can't learn on your own no matter how long you play. So, dropping a number for how many hours you've played is meaningless ****-waving at best.

Which takes me to my point: you don't want a ****-waving contest with Rhade.

 

[578]

Party-level fatigue in the campaign is something I'm OK with, and it would ideally affect morale, movement speed (equivalent to about -2 athletics at the absolute max), and weapon proficiency (maybe -15%, again at the max) for all members of a party. The hard part is applying it to AI parties and getting them to manage it intelligently.

1.2k hours is enough to get used in almost every system in multiplayer. I am not sure what you talk about. Time does matter. In warband you won't be a good player with 100 hours of casually playing the game online. Or maybe I misunderstood your post.

Kinda. You can play 1200 hours and know about every system, but you can play 12000 and still not master them all. After a point, hours played becomes meaningless and what separates players then is their dedication to improving themselves. There's also teamwork, which you can't learn on your own no matter how long you play. So, dropping a number for how many hours you've played is meaningless ****-waving at best.

Which takes me to my point: you don't want a ****-waving contest with Rhade.

I never said anything about mastering, the only proper way to improve after getting used to all the systems is to do actual training with your group/clan. Getting used to systems and familiarize with them has nothing to do with mastering them. I dont think you can do that on open servers, the teamwork is next to 0 and Warband does require teamwork. There is also a difference in playstyle. Duel players for example have a very different craft to a player who plays on IG. What I mean to say is that you need to find people to play and train with to take it to the next level (in most situations, at least). I don't think the 80% of public servers have something to give to an intermediate player who wishes to master the systems. But 1200 hours is enough to get used to everything. And I do believe how many hours you put in the game matters in Warband. That's my opinion.

 

[Orion]

I never said anything about mastering, the only proper way to improve after getting used to all the systems is to do actual training with your group/clan. Getting used to systems and familiarize with them has nothing to do with mastering them. I dont think you can do that on open servers, the teamwork is next to 0 and Warband does require teamwork. There is also a difference in playstyle. Duel players for example have a very different craft to a player who plays on IG. What I mean to say is that you need to find people to play and train with to take it to the next level (in most situations, at least).

Right, I agree with all of that. I can also assure you that the person you laughed at when they said they had that level of understanding has, in fact, done all of that with a consistently high degree of success over a span of about 4 years.

You have a habit of quickly calling into question the credibility of anyone that disagrees with you, but it hasn't worked out for you yet. You're 0 for 2, so maybe try altering your approach a little bit. Argue the point, not the person, y'know?

 

[578]

I never said anything about mastering, the only proper way to improve after getting used to all the systems is to do actual training with your group/clan. Getting used to systems and familiarize with them has nothing to do with mastering them. I dont think you can do that on open servers, the teamwork is next to 0 and Warband does require teamwork. There is also a difference in playstyle. Duel players for example have a very different craft to a player who plays on IG. What I mean to say is that you need to find people to play and train with to take it to the next level (in most situations, at least).

Right, I agree with all of that. I can also assure you that the person you laughed at when they said they had that level of understanding has, in fact, done all of that with a consistently high degree of success over a span of about 4 years.

You have a habit of quickly calling into question the credibility of anyone that disagrees with you, but it hasn't worked out for you yet. You're 0 for 2, so maybe try altering your approach a little bit. Argue the point, not the person, y'know?

What? 


I am pretty sure Rhade is a big man himself so he can talk without his laywer or girlfriend. We were having a discussion, maybe heated but still a discussion. If you do not have anything to input on stamina or horses, we can manage to pull through without you judging me to promote yourself to Rhade's eyes. Because I honestly do not care about your opinion. I also did not question anyone's credibility, he probably plays cavalry and he wants to continue to play his class as it is, but not as intended. (Refer to the video above to see what I mean). Lastly, I am not sure who you are and why should I care about your judgement on me. Either join the discussion or get out, trying to take pitiful jabs at me to look good to Rhade is pathetic.