Thank you - I'd tather earn my innocence than have it grante fdby the powers of ALCOHOL! 
[Werewolf] SMAC: Unity [Game ends!]
- 主题发起人 MaHuD
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Thoguths:
1. Maggy is being waaaaaay yoo jokey for my liking. Similar to how Soot started the oreviosu game, I read Mag as "oversexited wolf"\ Also going after things that surprise me. Might be to start conversation, but I'm wary and not getting the same vibes from him that I notrmally do (or from othetrs, if ytou want to not go off meta)
2. Vieira';s qyestion does seem silly, but iirc his TT opener was equally silly, so I am not sure if it means are much as others believe atm. Not sayin he is innocent, but I do not think it is worth reading into (though his response ot a question Xardob asked may be inidicatve of packers)
3. For some guy that apparently takes pride in his gut, Kronic (aka Ellywhateverhisanimenameis) wen for the obvious joke that has alkready been made of "omg soot and Mag are packies!" Reminds me all to well of whenever wolfs vome late to the party and start joking about what has already been said...
4. Pizzadude thinks Vieira is not genuine about his curiosity about the OP on Hawk's name, but does not question the fact that Hawek was wondering himself. Yes, Hawk would not use it to draw any conclusions about himself ofr obvious reasons, but if Vieira is not the only person wondering, then maybe it is, in fact, genuine?
1. Maggy is being waaaaaay yoo jokey for my liking. Similar to how Soot started the oreviosu game, I read Mag as "oversexited wolf"\ Also going after things that surprise me. Might be to start conversation, but I'm wary and not getting the same vibes from him that I notrmally do (or from othetrs, if ytou want to not go off meta)
2. Vieira';s qyestion does seem silly, but iirc his TT opener was equally silly, so I am not sure if it means are much as others believe atm. Not sayin he is innocent, but I do not think it is worth reading into (though his response ot a question Xardob asked may be inidicatve of packers)
3. For some guy that apparently takes pride in his gut, Kronic (aka Ellywhateverhisanimenameis) wen for the obvious joke that has alkready been made of "omg soot and Mag are packies!" Reminds me all to well of whenever wolfs vome late to the party and start joking about what has already been said...
4. Pizzadude thinks Vieira is not genuine about his curiosity about the OP on Hawk's name, but does not question the fact that Hawek was wondering himself. Yes, Hawk would not use it to draw any conclusions about himself ofr obvious reasons, but if Vieira is not the only person wondering, then maybe it is, in fact, genuine?
Reply to Phone:
You are now solidly wolf and I'm not joking.
You are now solidly wolf and I'm not joking.
So vote for me?
Second readthrough complete, initial leans list as follows.
Since I can't use certain colors, here's deep blue. I likely never vote here.
Pizzaguy
Magorian- strong villager lean, voted wolf lean Vieira.
Concur with Magorian re: Vieira post 15. Villagery tone 21.
Concur with premise of reply 35, if not the conclusion, and maybe even the conclusion.
Lean prone to reversal: Unlikely, but it is within the realm of metaphysical possibility
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Here's light blue: I do not vote here today and doubt I do in the future.
Adaham- slight v lean reply 38, my reads exactly. 47 seems pure.
Frisiandude- negligible villager lean from reply 19 seems disconnected from Mag/Vieira
interaction. 39 seems free of wolf angst, upgrades to slight v lean.
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Here's green: I probably am not voting here today.
Xardob- Neutral lean so far from reply 20 but does not read wolfish yet. Negl villager lean 26
Hawk- negligible villager lean from reply 14, 37 does not seem connected with Wolf!Phone.
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Here's neutral, meaning not wolfy but I'm not clearing them yet. I wouldn't vote here first and would No Lynch first, probably, since it is day one. I would give them more time.
Ellisiantus- Neutral/villagery on 53. I agree on one, not the other.
Pharaoh X Llandy- Neutral on 52. Would have preferred a different opening shot but I'm reading very little into Llandy's alignment for it.
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Orange: I would vote here if my reds are not allowable. May vote them over a No Lynch option but would be open to giving them more time.
SootShare- negligible wolf lean / neutral from reply 17, wolf lean post 22.
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Red: I prefer to discuss voting them today, and would almost certainly lynch them over a No Lynch option.
Phonemelter- target of vote by wolf lean Vieira, I had an extremely thin v lean at first, but list in 32 without merit seems almost wolfy. 78 is slightly wolfy. Reply 81 is much more solidly wolfy.
Vieira- slight wolf lean from reply 12, wolf tone reply 15, guilty post 18 wants to know how caught already. 28 reads as fake. I believe Vieira could be wolf with Soot. 67 reads worse and worse. Lean prone to reversal: Realistic but uphill battle.
Since I can't use certain colors, here's deep blue. I likely never vote here.
Pizzaguy
Magorian- strong villager lean, voted wolf lean Vieira.
Concur with Magorian re: Vieira post 15. Villagery tone 21.
Concur with premise of reply 35, if not the conclusion, and maybe even the conclusion.
Lean prone to reversal: Unlikely, but it is within the realm of metaphysical possibility
_____________________________________
Here's light blue: I do not vote here today and doubt I do in the future.
Adaham- slight v lean reply 38, my reads exactly. 47 seems pure.
Frisiandude- negligible villager lean from reply 19 seems disconnected from Mag/Vieira
interaction. 39 seems free of wolf angst, upgrades to slight v lean.
_____________________________________
Here's green: I probably am not voting here today.
Xardob- Neutral lean so far from reply 20 but does not read wolfish yet. Negl villager lean 26
Hawk- negligible villager lean from reply 14, 37 does not seem connected with Wolf!Phone.
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Here's neutral, meaning not wolfy but I'm not clearing them yet. I wouldn't vote here first and would No Lynch first, probably, since it is day one. I would give them more time.
Ellisiantus- Neutral/villagery on 53. I agree on one, not the other.
Pharaoh X Llandy- Neutral on 52. Would have preferred a different opening shot but I'm reading very little into Llandy's alignment for it.
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Orange: I would vote here if my reds are not allowable. May vote them over a No Lynch option but would be open to giving them more time.
SootShare- negligible wolf lean / neutral from reply 17, wolf lean post 22.
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Red: I prefer to discuss voting them today, and would almost certainly lynch them over a No Lynch option.
Phonemelter- target of vote by wolf lean Vieira, I had an extremely thin v lean at first, but list in 32 without merit seems almost wolfy. 78 is slightly wolfy. Reply 81 is much more solidly wolfy.
Vieira- slight wolf lean from reply 12, wolf tone reply 15, guilty post 18 wants to know how caught already. 28 reads as fake. I believe Vieira could be wolf with Soot. 67 reads worse and worse. Lean prone to reversal: Realistic but uphill battle.
Phonemelter 说:
Patience, Phone, patience. You will die, and I will be the one who makes that happen.
There's no need to rush matters.
The courtship is important. I need to be wined and dined and kissed and presented with pretty flowers. Easy, baby, let's let the romance swirl around in the air for a while. The day is still young. And besides, I have to choose you over Vieira at this point, so it's not like you're a mortal lock to be dead today anyway.
So impetuous.
Better to just link to posts because the post number is harder to follow here.
My thoughts / questions to your conclusions thus far:
1. I realize you are new, but some things that you seem to be agreeing with or finding wolfy are joke posts that have little to do with the actual game. Yes, they can be helpful in figuring out roles, but the way you seem to be going about it is "reading too much into it."
2. What exactly are your reeasons for finding my drunk posts wolfish? Because I am questoining your position on Vieira, who you consider to be wolfish? If you think this game is going to be solved really easily because the wolves are going to be stupid and vote for each other (which I have found happens hardly enough to consider worthy of paying attention to this early), you are going to have a bad time.
3. Looking for connections this early (I'd say) is not a great idea. I won't discourage you form doing it if it works for you, but as I sau in the porevious pooint, I highly doubt it will find anythig this rearly on. All of the players in this game have played multiple times, have varying stylres, and I think as both good and bad guys - my gues is that nobody is going to fall into the basic patterns of innocent or wolfy roles right now. The fact you are basing a bit of your reads right now on "too sutre" confidence (as I see it) is strange.
4. Why qould you have preferreed something different from Llandy, specifically? Having no ties to anyone in this game (aside from Adaham), you shoudl have no reaosn to expext anything from anyone in particularl...
My thoughts / questions to your conclusions thus far:
1. I realize you are new, but some things that you seem to be agreeing with or finding wolfy are joke posts that have little to do with the actual game. Yes, they can be helpful in figuring out roles, but the way you seem to be going about it is "reading too much into it."
2. What exactly are your reeasons for finding my drunk posts wolfish? Because I am questoining your position on Vieira, who you consider to be wolfish? If you think this game is going to be solved really easily because the wolves are going to be stupid and vote for each other (which I have found happens hardly enough to consider worthy of paying attention to this early), you are going to have a bad time.
3. Looking for connections this early (I'd say) is not a great idea. I won't discourage you form doing it if it works for you, but as I sau in the porevious pooint, I highly doubt it will find anythig this rearly on. All of the players in this game have played multiple times, have varying stylres, and I think as both good and bad guys - my gues is that nobody is going to fall into the basic patterns of innocent or wolfy roles right now. The fact you are basing a bit of your reads right now on "too sutre" confidence (as I see it) is strange.
4. Why qould you have preferreed something different from Llandy, specifically? Having no ties to anyone in this game (aside from Adaham), you shoudl have no reaosn to expext anything from anyone in particularl...
Phonemelter 说:
Explain how one plays the game without reading into posts, if one is a villager.
I will answer your question, but just as a pure thought exercise, why don't you tell me what I might find wolfish about them?
Are you suggesting your experience with this game and raw scum-finding talent is superior to my own?
How do you make such a determination? And if you say because I find you wolfy, you will have gained my vote.
In short, I find you condescending. Perhaps it's not malicious or intentional, but that's what you're doing to me right now.
What is strange about anything I've done so far this game? Be specific as to why.
I would have liked to see a vote on someone more wolfy.
1. There is a differenc ebetween reading into posts, and reading into posts too much.
2. Because you and I seem to have a disagreement over what is suspicious this early on? It is hard to analyze yourslef when you see yur behaviour differently than others would judge it.
Think about this: If you thought my drunken posts were sincere and leaning innocent, which you had told me, then why would I continue on and post things that I knew you would disagree with (based off older comments) if I was a wolf and you were innocent? Wouldn't it be better for me to just echo you and keep my mouth shut in order to have you not on my case for the time being?
3. I never said anything about your or my scum-finding talents - everyone here are varying tactics that work equally well. I am just saying that you, as well as everyone else, should know that wolves are not going to be as blatantly obvious as you come off as thinking at this point. Might be a good starting point, but the logic from which you seem to be drawing conclusions this early is not what I would expect from someone who has played the game as much as you.
4. What I see as strange, from you, is the kinf od confidence you have. Might just be the way you play, but my gut read of it is that you might have some knowledge that I don't, aka knowledge that a wolf might have. Hard to be specific because a) I am not in the proepr state to go back and read thingd carefully and b) do not have the motivation to, but the kind of consifdence I am seeing is not villagery.
5. Why should what Llandy sees as wolft be the same as what you see as wolfy?
2. Because you and I seem to have a disagreement over what is suspicious this early on? It is hard to analyze yourslef when you see yur behaviour differently than others would judge it.
Think about this: If you thought my drunken posts were sincere and leaning innocent, which you had told me, then why would I continue on and post things that I knew you would disagree with (based off older comments) if I was a wolf and you were innocent? Wouldn't it be better for me to just echo you and keep my mouth shut in order to have you not on my case for the time being?
3. I never said anything about your or my scum-finding talents - everyone here are varying tactics that work equally well. I am just saying that you, as well as everyone else, should know that wolves are not going to be as blatantly obvious as you come off as thinking at this point. Might be a good starting point, but the logic from which you seem to be drawing conclusions this early is not what I would expect from someone who has played the game as much as you.
4. What I see as strange, from you, is the kinf od confidence you have. Might just be the way you play, but my gut read of it is that you might have some knowledge that I don't, aka knowledge that a wolf might have. Hard to be specific because a) I am not in the proepr state to go back and read thingd carefully and b) do not have the motivation to, but the kind of consifdence I am seeing is not villagery.
5. Why should what Llandy sees as wolft be the same as what you see as wolfy?
Phonemelter 说:
Explain your theory on how what I am doing is substantively different from whatever motivates the votes which have been placed so far.
The only difference is that I have yet to vote, and I am open notebook, from where I sit. But feel free to correct my approach.
I'll try, but thinking is hard at the moment.
A lot of the early votes have been off jokes / meta reasons that have had little to do with the actual content of the game so far.
People are poking at things that they think are strange, but not immediately drawing a strong conclusion from it.
What you have seemed to do is to read meaning / tone into posts that that I think is a stretch / not actually there (though it is hard to tell what posts you are referring to because of the way you are stating them) and drawing stonger conclusions than I think they warrant.
A lot of the early votes have been off jokes / meta reasons that have had little to do with the actual content of the game so far.
People are poking at things that they think are strange, but not immediately drawing a strong conclusion from it.
What you have seemed to do is to read meaning / tone into posts that that I think is a stretch / not actually there (though it is hard to tell what posts you are referring to because of the way you are stating them) and drawing stonger conclusions than I think they warrant.
Rather than waiting for more development / interactions
I find it unlikely you are struggling as much as you claim to. Point 3 in your most recent point by point response is remarkably lucid and constructed in a complicated yet free flowing manner.
For someone pretending to be struggling in this game, you sure do seem to be able to switch off your struggles when using rhetoric.
Thinking is not that difficult for you at the moment, and you claiming that it is, is dishonest in a way that is almost never villagery.
Villagers can be dishonest, but you are hiding behind dishonesty in a way a villager does not.
For someone pretending to be struggling in this game, you sure do seem to be able to switch off your struggles when using rhetoric.
Thinking is not that difficult for you at the moment, and you claiming that it is, is dishonest in a way that is almost never villagery.
Villagers can be dishonest, but you are hiding behind dishonesty in a way a villager does not.
Askthepizzaguy 说:
...?
Unfortunately, I'm not one of those players who can look at two or three opening posts by everyone and judge which are guilty. I've tried, and when I do that I invariably end up with more innocents than wolves on my red list. I have to prod and poke and see quite a lot of reactions and try to piece them together like a puzzle, in order to start getting more than just feels.
As Melter said, who YOU think is wolfy will differ from who I think is wolfy. I do not, for example, think that Melter is particularly wolfy. Drunk, but nothing out of the ordinary that gives me a feel for his alignment.
BTW, Melter is one of the least condescending players ever, he's trying to offer you what he thinks is helpful advice for playing here. But I don't think he should be doing that, because in the last game our new player did a better job of IDing the wolves than all the experienced players. I know it's hardly empirical evidence, but it could be that her lack of experience and meta about everyone gave her an edge and stopped her second-guessing herself/over-thinking things. And if that's the case then your lack of meta could also do the same for you.
If you're innocent.
(PS, I too prefer interaction in 'real time'. You might find this game a little difficult for that, unfortunately, because 7 of the players are in EU timezones.)
@pIzzadude:
I'm not being dishonest about my struggles - I've just foudn that if I was going to start making more seirous sarguments, then I should at leas ttry a bit harder to make my posting legible. Plus when I started to post two hours ago, I had already stopped drinking heaviyl for some time, so the sobering-up process had already started. Luckily I have also been sataying more hydrated than I usually dpo, so that process has quickly sped up.
I'm not being dishonest about my struggles - I've just foudn that if I was going to start making more seirous sarguments, then I should at leas ttry a bit harder to make my posting legible. Plus when I started to post two hours ago, I had already stopped drinking heaviyl for some time, so the sobering-up process had already started. Luckily I have also been sataying more hydrated than I usually dpo, so that process has quickly sped up.
I do not mean to say Phonemelter has offended me, or that this behavior is typical for Phonemelter.
What I was referring to in the comment where I characterized the behavior as condescending was to determine why.
It was mildly condescending and it read to me as coming from a wolfy mindset, not a helpful if patronizing villager mindset.
Trust me, I am not offended by Phone. Or your vote choice. I just can't read your alignment based off of that vote.
What I was referring to in the comment where I characterized the behavior as condescending was to determine why.
It was mildly condescending and it read to me as coming from a wolfy mindset, not a helpful if patronizing villager mindset.
Trust me, I am not offended by Phone. Or your vote choice. I just can't read your alignment based off of that vote.
Phonemelter 说:@pIzzadude:
I'm not being dishonest about my struggles - I've just foudn that if I was going to start making more seirous sarguments, then I should at leas ttry a bit harder to make my posting legible. Plus when I started to post two hours ago, I had already stopped drinking heaviyl for some time, so the sobering-up process had already started. Luckily I have also been sataying more hydrated than I usually dpo, so that process has quickly sped up.
Why is your priority to make serious arguments about game theory, rather than to focus and find wolves?
I find your priorities to be wolfy.
Phonemelter 说:
I never wait for the wolves to accidentally out themselves. You stir the pot to generate such developments and interactions.
I assume the only way the wolves will seem so wolfy I can convince others they are, is to press them and corner them and ask them questions until their answers hang them.
If there's an approach of hoping wolves blunder themselves to death, I am not a fan of such an approach. Patience is not one of my virtues.
Askthepizzaguy 说:
Why would you try to read my alignment off my first vote? I have said things which you could attempt to start to judge my alignment off; opening votes around here tend to be largely jokey and hard to read (unless you're Soot, who tries way too hard to catch wolf packs via opening-vote interactions).
It's my belief that what people say is even more important (initially) than how they vote. And I have a feeling you believe that too, because of how you're assessing Melter's posts right now, and how you've changed your opinion of him according to the things he has said.
