[Werewolf] SMAC: Unity [Game ends!]

[Magorian Aximand]

Probably won't have any posts of substance until late tonight. Priority is Llandy, as our conversation is unfinished, and her latest analysis of Soot deserves research and consideration.

And Pizza is at it again. Though I do like the term "hypocrantics". I just feel it's better defined as either his tangential, unsupported, and failtastic method of wolfhunting, or his disingenuous approach as a wolf, depending on role.

 

[Phonemelter]

@Soot and Mag:

I can't remember - what are your thoughts on Llandy's alignment?

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Mildly suspicious because of the case on Soot. At least the part that I have read and analyzed thus far. I have my doubts; she's demonstrated some good hunting behavior and the interpretation of the problems I see are pretty exclusively WIFOM.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

I still haven't read you case, it's the next thing on my to do list, so don't know if you have addressed this, but I was thinking more along the lines of Soot's change of heart on Magorian earlier in the day than on Pizza.

Mmkay. Soot doesn't like Magorian interrupting the great Pizzamelter inquisition here. The switch to Soot thinking Mag is now a little more 'legit' is here and the post from Mag which triggered it is here.

Since Soot at this point backed off/gave approval for Mag, it's likely Mag said something in his post or expressed a view which Soot wants to give Mag room to continue expressing. It could be Mag's stance on Eli looking suspect, the fact that Mag got good vibes from Melter, the jokey way in which Mag advocates lynching Hawk, or the fact that Mag thinks Fris is 'looking okay'.

This later post by Soot would seem to indicate a preference for targetting Eli and Hawk, something which Mag has also expressed an interest in (hard to tell how serious he was being about Hawk at that time).

So, if I look at it from the assumption that both Soot and Mag are wolves, then yes, I can see Soot's flop as a way of giving his packmate some breathing room and, as Soot himself claimed about Pizza, choosing a convenient time to flip his former criticism of his packmate.

But the flip itself is not necessarily indicative of a pack connection. It's highly convenient that a single post by Mag, and a short one at that, caused Soot to think of Mag as more legit, but I think that speaks more strongly about Soot's alignment than a pack connection with Magorian. Overall I consider it less evidence of a potential Soot/Mag pack link than the way Soot changed his read about Pizza when it seemed opinion started to become weighted against him during/after Mag's argument with him.

Is that the change of heart you were talking about?

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

@Pharaoh / @all, any merit to my thoughts regarding Magorian+Xardob, as opposed to the more level one idea of Hawk?

Also, Magorian+Soot, or Xardob+Soot, either of those counterindicated so far, to the best of your knowledge?

I have counter-indications to M+X and X+S, for 2 reasons and 1 reason respectively.

Your Soot/Xardob connection I do not see because I am not really reading Xardob as scummy so far. I'm not saying oh god he's so innocent that you could shove carbon in his mouth and he'd crap out pure diamonds, but nothing I've seen has given me cause for concern.

This is also one of the 2 reasons I'm not entertaining the thought of at M+X pack either. The other reason is pure meta. A few games ago I was in a pack with Xardob, and that gave me some insight into his behaviour patterns as scum. Insights which are available to you or anybody else in our Crazy Panda QT topic if you want to actually bother reading it.

It boils down to this; I think that if Xardob was scum he would not be wasting his time WoT-arguing with his packmate. He would probably roll out some weak reason to keep suspicion on his packmate and every once in a while could come back with a one-liner to remind us all that hey, he has suspicion! But it wouldn't really go anywhere.

There's probably a reason why he's arguing with Mag, but I don't think that reason is furry. Maybe he'll reveal his reason at some point or maybe we'll have to wait until after the game just to find out it was all ****s and giggles for him.


And since you mentioned Mag + Hawk, I will say that I think Mag's reluctance to tell you to lynch Hawk speaks in his favour more than anything else he's said or done in this whole game. Simple reason being that Mag and Hawk are never ever ever going to get along, even if they're in the same pack. Like Hawk said earlier, it would probably end with Mag bussing Hawk and then claiming victory for finally lynching a scummy Hawk. I don't think Wolf-Magorian would even give it a second thought.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Damn you people for making me write big-ish posts, I am trying to get away from doing that as much as I used to.

@Vermillion Hawk - Wherever (or whenever) you are, what do you think about Magorian telling Pizza not to lynch you on his say-so earlier in the game? Do you agree with my assessment that this is a good sign from Mag? Disagree? Other?

And could we finally finally please see whatever point you had about Adaham and Pizza when you pointed out Soot's fence-sitting, because I am essentially postponing judgment on you until I get an explanation for what you said.

 

[FrisianDude]

"hypocrantics."

Do they have an oath?

Also I opened this quote just before Llandy posted, which made the following bit a bit awkward (due to the Crazy Panda reference and no do not abbreviate that) , but no amount of my re-phrasing it makes it less awkward; I think Llandy is making very good points here, in particular in that most recent post. I didn't have the exact same reasons as Llandy for the conclusion but I do share it; I think Xardob is in the clear.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Also I opened this quote just before Llandy posted, which made the following bit a bit awkward (due to the Crazy Panda reference and no do not abbreviate that) , but no amount of my re-phrasing it makes it less awkward; I think Llandy is making very good points here, in particular in that most recent post. I didn't have the exact same reasons as Llandy for the conclusion but I do share it; I think Xardob is in the clear.

Why is that in any way awkward?

Is it because we were in that pack together? And we ate people? And beat the lurkers? And won the game? Through lurking?

And when you say that you don't have the exact same reasons, are you referring to my meta reasons, or my 'don't think Xardob has been overly suspicious in this particular game' reasons?

 

[FrisianDude]

Is it because we were in that pack together? And we ate people? And beat the lurkers? And won the game? Through lurking?

Yes x5

And when you say that you don't have the exact same reasons, are you referring to my meta reasons, or my 'don't think Xardob has been overly suspicious in this particular game' reasons?

I can't really explain. Don't really recall the meta reasons either/can't really separate them from the in-this-game reasons, 's just as if it feels like I know Xardob isn't a baddy this game. Strong gut feeling I guess.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

BTW everybody, I forgot to mention; expect less input from me over the weekend than I would usually be able to give. I have a whole lotta errands to do on Saturday, then cinema at night to watch the new Jurassic Park film, and then on Sunday it is Fathers Day here in limeyland.

 

[Xardob]

If you have the exact same hunch about Eli then I can see what you were trying to do with your vote on him, but I think it was executed too early to work like your hunch on Pilgrim. What with 2 players absent and 2 still catching up on the thread.

Yes, it was the same hunch, for the same reasons. But I think it was too late, I had to do that right after Pizza got his responses.

Last time Xardob talked about game theory, he was a wolf - meta says I now should not trust him. 

Have our latest game in the QT thread thought you nothing about mixing meta and me? 

Bantering aside for a moment, Pizzaguy made a similar comment about Eli gathering a lot of 'wolf' leans but no real votes, but then took the opposite stance of deciding to protect Eli in case he's a special. I don't see how Pizza even made that leap; do you see anything at all which would give Pizzaguy that sort of idea?

I have no idea how Pizza reached that conclusion. But then, I can only accurately identify specials when I'm a wolf, and that's because I'm actively hunting them.

Xardob, I am not sure. I keep flipping my perspective on him. He doesn't feel like my dog, I don't feel like I can count on him.

You can count on me, you just don't have exclusivity over me. I'll be anyone's dog.

Is that the change of heart you were talking about?

Yes. I also thought of Soot's position on Mag as a convenient suspicion with no goal to actually push a lynch. But that's not necessarily an indication of packmate behaviour, just bad behaviour from Soot.

I'm not saying oh god he's so innocent that you could shove carbon in his mouth and he'd crap out pure diamonds

If I show you a shiny rock, would you consider me above any and all suspicion?

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

I'm not saying oh god he's so innocent that you could shove carbon in his mouth and he'd crap out pure diamonds

If I show you a shiny rock, would you consider me above any and all suspicion?

Mmyeeaahno

And you can make better bribes than that!

 

[Phonemelter]

Vote: Magorian Seximand

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Point proving, or is there a more game related reason?

 

[Xardob]

I'm guessing there's a game related reason. If it was just to prove a point, he surely would have vote you yesterday.

 

[Phonemelter]

It's to prove the game-related point of you being a WOLF!

 

[Xardob]

What was the trigger for this vote? What changed?

 

[Phonemelter]

@Pizza:

I can agree with you that lynching someone inactive might not be a great idea. We've had recent issues with lurker wolves, but yeah, doubtful that all of them will be lurkers.

I am not on-board with voting for Soot, but if we need a compromise, I might be willing to vote for Magorian (especially to show that he can in fact be lynched on Day 1  ).

Unless we're going to lynch Pizza.

 

[Xardob]

As much as I'd like to make Mag eat his words, we really should lynch Eli, or Hawk.

 

[Phonemelter]

Maybe, but I maintain my strict "no Day 1 lurker-lynching" policy. If I can't live by my own rules, I am a man worth nothing.